Author Topic: Michelin slide  (Read 12155 times)

redrider

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Michelin slide
« on: January 27, 2015, 03:38:43 PM »
Low 50's today. Riding mostly interstate then into town. About an hours worth. As I rolled into the 90 deg right hander, the front end started to wash out. Toe slider was quick to touch down and I added throttle to un load the front and raised the bike while leaning my body to compensate. It happened QUICK. No racing pulse, <shrug>. The road is clean, I checked.

Again, cool weather and Michelin PR2. Last time it was in the 30's. I'm starting to not like these skins. Any one else have issues with the brand?

Offline rocker59

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 03:44:12 PM »
Which bike?  What kind of pressure are you running?

I've not used the PR2, so no insight on the tire, but if you're running 36psi in the front this time of year, you should consider about dropping it to 32psi.

Pavement was probably pretty cool, even if clean, so lower pressures should give you more stick.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:45:58 PM by rocker59 »
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Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 04:02:03 PM »
How many miles do you have on that front tire? I found that the Michelin I had on the front of my Breva started getting sketchy at around 10,000 miles. There was still plenty of tread but the rubber just lost its stick. I started plowing through corners with a little bit of a slide and I lost all faith in those tires. And this was at the hight of summer on some uber sticky black top. I have since switched to Pirelli Angle GT's and I have yet to find the limit for these tires. I am running into corners harder and caring more corner speed than I ever have and these tires just keep begging for more. Plus the provide really good feed back.
So back to the original question, just my two cents  but I think your tires (or at least the front) is done.
Are you loading up the front at you corner entrance by easing on the front brake to transfer weight? 
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redrider

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 04:17:58 PM »
Current pressure is 36 so I'll try wee bit less but my instinct says tire. As for loading the front, I generally carry some brake to the apex in this bend (and most others) but today I was off the brake and neutral throttle as I tipped in. It was not a snap roll. I had cold traction reaction before with this tire so I was mentally prepped for it. Lots of tread left and 8K in the mirrors.

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 04:17:58 PM »

Offline Aaron D.

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 04:31:51 PM »
I like my PR 2s, haven't had anything like that happen.

Bill Hagan

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 04:38:08 PM »
How many miles do you have on that front tire? I found that the Michelin I had on the front of my Breva started getting sketchy at around 10,000 miles. There was still plenty of tread but the rubber just lost its stick. I started plowing through corners with a little bit of a slide and I lost all faith in those tires. And this was at the hight of summer on some uber sticky black top. I have since switched to Pirelli Angle GT's and I have yet to find the limit for these tires. I am running into corners harder and caring more corner speed than I ever have and these tires just keep begging for more. Plus the provide really good feed back.
So back to the original question, just my two cents  but I think your tires (or at least the front) is done.
Are you loading up the front at you corner entrance by easing on the front brake to transfer weight? 

Good question.

But 10K? Are you serious?   :o

On rears of all brands, I "feel" a performance difference at <3K, and have lost confidence in all but inspirited riding at 4. 

In front, more, but I generally replace both at same time.

Then again, having more experience than I wish to recall, I am a coward about visiting the pavement.   ::) :'(

Bill



redrider

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 04:51:51 PM »
I have a short trip to NC this weekend. A new PR2 rear goes on next week so a new front may be as well. Still, the cold weather performance gives me pause. This never happened with Avon, even on the high spirited Benelli.

Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 06:03:14 PM »
Good question.

But 10K? Are you serious?   :o

On rears of all brands, I "feel" a performance difference at <3K, and have lost confidence in all but inspirited riding at 4. 

In front, more, but I generally replace both at same time.

Then again, having more experience than I wish to recall, I am a coward about visiting the pavement.   ::) :'(

Bill




I almost always ride on Sport Touring tires and generally get about 6,000 to 7,000 miles out of rear and 12,000 to 14,000 miles out of the front. It just happens to be an elegant 2:1 ratio that has almost always worked out for me. And living in Colorado where 95% of my riding is done I tend to wear the whole tire fairy evenly rather than squaring the darn things off by wearing out the center.
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Offline Greenman

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2015, 06:40:53 PM »
I have PR2s on my sport 1100 carb, here in Nz I run 34 front 36-38 rear.
DD
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Offline sono

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2015, 06:56:37 PM »
I loved the PR2's when I used them. I've since switched to PR4's and they are much better.

I've never had the issue you describe using the 2's. Especially since you say you were riding for an hour...
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2015, 07:01:25 PM »
I never got anywhere close to 10k on any front.. mostly Pirelli Angels.. 7k maybe.. I did burn thru a rear Angel on my Uly in 4.500 miles.. got new PR4's last fall ($232. for the pair!) and like alot!
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2015, 07:10:46 PM »
My guess is that it's not brand specific as much as mileage specific.  My Bridgestone S11 front has slipped noticeably and recovered in hard corners a couple times recently.  It's ready to be replaced, with 8,000 miles I put on it, and an unknown amount the previous owner put on it.  I have a set of Pirelli Sport Demons ready to go on.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 07:21:00 PM »
Current pressure is 36 so I'll try wee bit less but my instinct says tire. 

It may well be the tire, but it's free to adjust pressure. 

I run 32-33 in the front on my Sport 1100 this time of year.  34 most of the time.  Only time I'll run 36 in the front is in the hot summer running 2-up.

32-33 front, 35 rear when it's cooler.  34 front, 38 rear in the summer.  36 front, 42 rear for 2-up summer riding.

I haven't really ever heard of this issue with the PR2, so suspect too much pressure for conditions. 
Michael T.
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Bill Hagan

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2015, 07:30:25 PM »
Good question.

But 10K? Are you serious?   :o

On rears of all brands, I "feel" a performance difference at <3K, and have lost confidence in all but inspirited riding at 4. 

In front, more, but I generally replace both at same time.

Then again, having more experience than I wish to recall, I am a coward about visiting the pavement.   ::) :'(

Bill




I almost always ride on Sport Touring tires and generally get about 6,000 to 7,000 miles out of rear and 12,000 to 14,000 miles out of the front. It just happens to be an elegant 2:1 ratio that has almost always worked out for me. And living in Colorado where 95% of my riding is done I tend to wear the whole tire fairy evenly rather than squaring the darn things off by wearing out the center.

Hmmmmmm.  Perhaps I have a GVWR "challenge" ... or, more likely, a GVRR.   ;D

Bill




Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2015, 07:42:44 PM »
I never got anywhere close to 10k on any front.. mostly Pirelli Angels.. 7k maybe.. I did burn thru a rear Angel on my Uly in 4.500 miles.. got new PR4's last fall ($232. for the pair!) and like alot!

Never got 10k out of a front?!? Either I am way too frugal or you are way too thrifty. I will push my tires to the point to where either I lose confidence in their adhesion or their groove depth, which ever occurs first. But, like I said, I almost always run with Sport Touring tires of the correct speed and weight ratings for my bike. I have once dabbled with a full on super glue gumball tire that had the speed and load rating for my bike but the damn things wore out in less than 3,000 miles! Front and rear! I didn't appreciate any significant improvement in feed back or feel so I left those things alone.
Generally speaking I have always ridden on Metzler's but I have had some feed back on them that left my confidence low.  The Pirelli's have so far given me excellent feed back and zero slippage when pushed hard. Admittedly, this is my first set, but I am probably close to 5,000 miles front and rear, and I am still getting balls to the wall adhesion around corners even now with the cold ass temperatures on the road.
Don't just take my word for it. Ask around some of the other Colorado folk who ride with me. For the most part I ride fast and really like to ride faster when the road gets twisty.  
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Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2015, 07:44:23 PM »
Hmmmmmm.  Perhaps I have a GVWR "challenge" ... or, more likely, a GVRR.   ;D

Bill





I always buy the tire specified in the owners manual.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2015, 08:54:32 PM »
I always buy the tire specified in the owners manual.

What happens when they quit making it?  Or, you don't like the fact that it only lasts 3,000 miles.  Both are the case with the Sport 1100.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 09:12:23 PM by rocker59 »
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 09:06:53 PM »
I find that Michelins need to warm up.  Sounds like they were cold.....but I always feel it slide from the rear.  The front is hard to catch.

good job.

no sand or gravel? wow
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:20:06 PM by LowRyter »
John L 
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Bill Hagan

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 09:24:14 PM »
Hmmmmmm.  Perhaps I have a GVWR "challenge" ... or, more likely, a GVRR.   ;D

Bill


I always buy the tire specified in the owners manual.

I am concerned from this and your other responses that you infer some sort of doubt or even insult as to your riding style and tire experience.   
Hardly.  I was making fun of myself, not you.

If you ride as you say and get that kind of mileage, more power (and tread) to you.

I can't.  I live in a part of the world where one spends -- as do you, it seems -- more time leaning when riding than most Kansas Guzzisti do.  I am almost never on the slab and love back roads along the Appalachian spine.  My point is that I don't square off tires, either.

Now, as a result of my weight as a rider (thus my mention of "GVRW"  ;)) or heavy throttle hand on roll-outs (which may me grin like a loon) or whatever ... it doesn't matter ... I almost always am looking at steel cords on the back by mid-4's to 5K; fronts somewhat better. 

And, in all brands I've tried -- all mentioned here, including the OEM Metzlers which, IMHO, have sucked raw eggs -- I've felt loss of tire performance sharpness well before I could see steel.  My imagination?  Could be.  I don't ride like Valentino Rossi nor do I think I have his feel for the road as does he and others of his ilk.

I should also add that my tire experiences with the EV contrasts sharply with that of mine with the Ballabio, Norge, and Griso.  The EV -- especially with M880's -- would go 10K or so with rear; front, quite a bit more.  The other three, no way.

As with all sorts of things here, YMMV and apparently does.  I can only envy you.

Bill


Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 10:13:07 PM »
What happens when they quit making it?  Or, you don't like the fact that it only lasts 3,000 miles.  Both are the case with the Sport 1100.



I infer that I always fit tires that are specified in the owners manual in regards to load and speed rating.
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Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2015, 10:15:24 PM »
I find that Michelins need to warm up.  Sounds like they were cold.....but I always feel it slide form the rear.  The front is hard to catch.

good job.

no sand or gravel? wow
I too am in aw of catching a front end plow. That will scare the bejeezus out of most of us.
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Offline skippy

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2015, 10:40:27 PM »
I am concerned from this and your other responses that you infer some sort of doubt or even insult as to your riding style and tire experience.   
Hardly.  I was making fun of myself, not you.

If you ride as you say and get that kind of mileage, more power (and tread) to you.

I can't.  I live in a part of the world where one spends -- as do you, it seems -- more time leaning when riding than most Kansas Guzzisti do.  I am almost never on the slab and love back roads along the Appalachian spine.  My point is that I don't square off tires, either.

Now, as a result of my weight as a rider (thus my mention of "GVRW"  ;)) or heavy throttle hand on roll-outs (which may me grin like a loon) or whatever ... it doesn't matter ... I almost always am looking at steel cords on the back by mid-4's to 5K; fronts somewhat better. 

And, in all brands I've tried -- all mentioned here, including the OEM Metzlers which, IMHO, have sucked raw eggs -- I've felt loss of tire performance sharpness well before I could see steel.  My imagination?  Could be.  I don't ride like Valentino Rossi nor do I think I have his feel for the road as does he and others of his ilk.

I should also add that my tire experiences with the EV contrasts sharply with that of mine with the Ballabio, Norge, and Griso.  The EV -- especially with M880's -- would go 10K or so with rear; front, quite a bit more.  The other three, no way.

As with all sorts of things here, YMMV and apparently does.  I can only envy you.

Bill



I am grateful for the twisty, kinky roads we have here in Colorado but I must admit I haven't always achieved the mileage I would like due to the time spent on the outer edge of the carcass as opposed to the center. I had ridden on nothing but Metzlers for almost twenty years with the conviction that a tire company that built nothing but motorcycle tires aught to know how to make a motorcycle tire perform and last. The truth be told though, the last couple of sets of tires I ran on my bikes I was lacking in the confidence to charge into corners and come out at the speed I wanted. I found myself plowing in and having to add more front brake then I liked just to keep the front loaded up.  Ever since I switched to Pirelli's, I have had to completely rethink how fast I can charge in to a corner.  I have yet to find the speed that forces the front end to plow. I am carrying over twice the recommended speed through some corners with confidence and ease. I had never, ever achieved this kind of feed back and confidence on Metzlers or Michelins except when they where brand new and freshly broken in. After 3,00 on the rear and 7,000 on the front all bets are off. I would just gently ride them out for the rest of the season and replace.    
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redrider

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 06:48:24 AM »
Kind of like someone from California visiting Oklahoma saying they want to experience a tornado  Grin

 Dusty, you are a gem.

The rest of the day was fine with a bit more caution in the corners. I'll bleed some air today and the temps are forcasted to be a bit cooler. Tip-toe through the twistys with me....

redrider

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2015, 04:47:58 PM »
Slept on it and ordered Avons today.

Offline GuzziPilot

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2015, 06:31:42 PM »
How old are the tires? How about their build code dates?

 If thats OK then I'd suspect the squarish shoulder between flat tread center and actual shoulder tread, as I've had Metzlers with too sharp a transition literally scare the hell out of me on that shoulder, but found that if I lean deeper? I regain my track and control through some some of those corners that put you right on the transition between full center tread or relatively unused side tread...the "chicken strip"

Counterintuitive... . But, even in chilly weather, leaning more helps......that said I usually back off and start shopping new tires pretty quick :wife:

All that aside......check those codes, your tires might just be old and dry...

Take good care

Lee


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redrider

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2015, 01:30:49 PM »
I tend to use most of my available tread. Both are well rounded and nearly identical amount of tread depth to the wear bars. Very little chicken strip and even that has seen the asphalt occasionally.

Never had this issue with Avon.

biking sailor

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2015, 01:45:54 PM »
I recently picked up a 2007 R1200GS with pretty low miles, 16,000. The front was done and original and I changed it out, the back (Tourance) looked almost new with very little wear. I had some sliding of the back end as I was getting to know the bike and thought it strange because I wasn't pushing it that hard. Checked it last night and the "new" rear had a 47 week of 09 date code. 5 years old. Have no idea how long it's been on the bike.

Being cheap, I really hate to toss a tire with that much tread, but if it continues to slide around on me, it is gone.

hammick

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2015, 09:59:58 PM »
I always buy the tire specified in the owners manual.

Hmm.  I find the tires that come on most of the vehicles I buy are not worth buying again.

Offline trippah

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2015, 10:51:26 PM »
I try to stay with the manufacturer's size recommendations, but like many find the OEM tires not the greatest.  As I near 69 years I find less speed is OK at this point, I know I don't rebound like a twenty something. :(

Offline Moto Fugazzi

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Re: Michelin slide
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2015, 11:08:55 PM »
I recently picked up a 2007 R1200GS with pretty low miles, 16,000. The front was done and original and I changed it out, the back (Tourance) looked almost new with very little wear. I had some sliding of the back end as I was getting to know the bike and thought it strange because I wasn't pushing it that hard. Checked it last night and the "new" rear had a 47 week of 09 date code. 5 years old. Have no idea how long it's been on the bike.

Being cheap, I really hate to toss a tire with that much tread, but if it continues to slide around on me, it is gone.
I had some 6yr old tires on a previous bike I had purchased, and while they looked new, they were hard as a rock when I tried to push my thumbnail in them to see how soft they were. Probably not the best way to judge a tire, but it was good enough for me.

I did put some Pilot Activs on my V7C, and I wish I would have gone with the Pirelli Sport Demons again as the Michelins seem a little "squirelly" on this bike. I may go back to the Sport Demon on the front, but I'm not sure how much that affect the handling.
Ken
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