STELVIO AS A ROAD BIKE

[youcanrunnaked]

I was intrigued by the new Triumph Tiger 800XCX at the Progressive Motorcycle Show.  The Tiger seems to split the difference between my DR650 and the big ADV bikes, and looks to be less expensive to buy and maintain than the BMW F800GS.  



I don't need 2-up capacity, but I want something to pull both on and off-road duty that's more comfortable to travel distances with than the DR.  Any opinions among the group?

[fotoguzzi]

I like it!


point for recognition of the location.

[kirb]

KTM 990 and Stelvio NTX, full of fuel, on the scale:
http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/11/big-bikes-hit-scale.html

[Doppelgaenger]

I was intrigued by the new Triumph Tiger 800XCX at the Progressive Motorcycle Show.  The Tiger seems to split the difference between my DR650 and the big ADV bikes, and looks to be less expensive to buy and maintain than the BMW F800GS.  

I don't need 2-up capacity, but I want something to pull both on and off-road duty that's more comfortable to travel distances with than the DR.  Any opinions among the group?

The thing that gets me about the tiger is the engine. with 3 cylinders it's not going to have the torque that a twin does. It'll be smoother on the road, but other bikes will be better off-road. The ADV bikes are all about compromise, you just have to decide where you want to compromise.

[leafman60]

The thing that gets me about the tiger is the engine. with 3 cylinders it's not going to have the torque that a twin does. It'll be smoother on the road, but other bikes will be better off-road. The ADV bikes are all about compromise, you just have to decide where you want to compromise.

I've ridden the three-cylinder Triumph Tiger.  The Triumphs are great motorcycles, much more reliable and trouble-free than the BMW.  

I agree with Doppel.  I prefer twins or singles. The Tiger strikes me as too much a sewing machine bike. It's not as bad in that regard as a 4-cylinder but my seat-of-the-pants judgment for me is that it feels too much like a 4-cylinder. Other folks may be fine with this.

Comparing both the BMW 800 twin back-to-back with the 3-cylinder Triumph, I greatly prefer the performance of the BMW by a wide margin. However, again, the problem with the BMW is the problems with BMW! There are now apparently several new problems that are plaguing the 800 Twins in the fuel tank, fuel pump category.

Though not in the same league as the Tiger, the Triumph 2-cylinder Scrambler would appeal to me more from an engine standpoint.

The second thing, again, is maintenance. Although the Tiger's valve inspection service intervals are fairly far apart, such has got to cost more money and/or be more involved than the simple valve service of a Guzzi. The Guzzi will spoil you in this regard.

Hey, Guzzi bikes have their own problems. A lot of this forum is devoted to those issues.  Niggling little issues with the Stelvio are irritating. All in all, however, I do not know what I'd replace it with.

For anyone wanting a big dual sport without the weight of an NTX, looking at an older non-NTX Stelvio may be the thing to do. Without all the engine guards, big tank, and saddlebag paraphernalia, et al,  the early Stelvio is much lighter in weight than the NTX.

[Chuck in Indiana]

point for recognition of the location.

Wisconsin rally. What do I win?  ;D

[fotoguzzi]

Wisconsin rally. What do I win?  ;D

a smiley face,

[swmckinley54]

Yes I agree, a Russell Day Long Saddle is the way to go. I put one on mine shortly after I bought the bike. The comfort level went way up, but it also raised me from a flat footing the bike to up on my toes. Not a big deal as that was the case with the BMW Adv.'s that I previously owned.

[youcanrunnaked]

All good points regarding the 800 Tiger. The new XCX is supposed to be considerably improved, so maybe the Tiger no longer comes in second to the F800GS.  I have yet to ride either bike, so I don't really know -- yet.

I actually fit on a Stelvio, and on-road I am comfortable on that bike, but I think my modest dirt experience suggests I might be better off with a smaller bike weighing 500 lbs wet, as opposed to a larger bike weighing over 600 lbs.

The other problem with the Stelvio is a matter of trust.  Maybe premature valve wear and cracking fork legs are "niggling little issues" to some, but not to me.  (I freely acknowledge that the factory has addressed these issues in recent model years, but I am not likely to buy a new motorcycle.) Iffy fueling, wonky wiring, a groaning clutch, and having to find full syn 10W60 oil while traveling off the beaten track may be minor annoyances, but they persist after several model years, and it is at least debatable whether the Stelvio's good qualities make putting up with these annoyances worthwhile.

Then there is the fact that Moto Guzzi is once again falling behind the competition in tech.  The Triumph XCX comes with multi-mode throttle, TC, and ABS, plus cruise control; the Guzzi has one throttle map (and even that one can be a bit problematic), a crude TC system, ABS is either on or off, and no cruise control.

I won't debate the "character" issue.  I too prefer v-twin and single motorcycles (which is all that I've ever owned), and there is just something about the Moto Guzzi big twins that appeals to me in a way that other motorcycles do not.  I think the California 1400 shows that Guzzi can build a modern, reliable, competition-crushing motorcycle that continues with that appeal, but I don't want another California.  What I think want at this point is a lighter, trimmer, more agile Stelvio, with all of the tech and quality of the new California 1400.  The two questions in my mind are: How long will I have to wait for it? and, What do I ride in the interim?

[terrycoxusa]

Still, it's 200-300 lbs lighter than a Gold Wing or a big Harley. 

[kirb]

I only have a 2012 and 2013 NTX to base my comments on (2012 gave up to the deer gods), but here we go-

Fueling is pretty damn good. I've had a bunch of bikes that were(are) worse. This bike doesn't need anything out of the box. Some guys who added pipes and modified maps went back to factory. It's good. I feel no need to change (and I can change, did change my Griso). No flashes, boxes, or other nonsense makes this bike much better. Guzzidiag gives the owner the option.

Wonky wiring? I can't say I agree. I added some AUX lamp fuse holders, had the dealer perform the TSB on the wiring around the starter, check my grounds and battery as part of my normal run around. I can see how someone reading an internet forum might get put off and not trust it.

Clutch- it does groan early in the day. This is something that shouldn't happen, but it does.

10W60- I never needed it. The bike doesn't burn oil. I buy a case of UNI from Motocarr and call it a day.

TC, ABS- The multi-function ABS and TC of other MFGs are new even to them. I don't see the need on a bike like the Stelvio. A 1200 multistrada? Sure. A Stelvio? No idea why one would need it above what it is. They allow you to turn both off and on where some don't (super T, for one). The Stelvio is more the norm in the ADV world, and in a lot of cases ahead of the game.

Cruise- You won't see cruise unless a bike has throttle by wire. The only Guzzi with that is the Cali. I never considered that a deal breaker for me, but to each his own.

The Stelvio is a damn good large ADV bike. It competes well with it's target- 1200GS. Price and options, for me, were the selling point. The Guzzi being a Guzzi sealed the deal. The bike is a very well done, well sorted, capable bike. I enjoy it for what we use it for- long tours. I have a KTM if I want to get into trouble off road. This bike replaced a sport touring rig for me and I never looked back. It's not for everyone, that is for sure.

The other problem with the Stelvio is a matter of trust.  Maybe premature valve wear and cracking fork legs are "niggling little issues" to some, but not to me.  (I freely acknowledge that the factory has addressed these issues in recent model years, but I am not likely to buy a new motorcycle.) Iffy fueling, wonky wiring, a groaning clutch, and having to find full syn 10W60 oil while traveling off the beaten track may be minor annoyances, but they persist after several model years, and it is at least debatable whether the Stelvio's good qualities make putting up with these annoyances worthwhile.

Then there is the fact that Moto Guzzi is once again falling behind the competition in tech.  The Triumph XCX comes with multi-mode throttle, TC, and ABS, plus cruise control; the Guzzi has one throttle map (and even that one can be a bit problematic), a crude TC system, ABS is either on or off, and no cruise control.

I won't debate the "character" issue.  I too prefer v-twin and single motorcycles (which is all that I've ever owned), and there is just something about the Moto Guzzi big twins that appeals to me in a way that other motorcycles do not.  I think the California 1400 shows that Guzzi can build a modern, reliable, competition-crushing motorcycle that continues with that appeal, but I don't want another California.  What I think want at this point is a lighter, trimmer, more agile Stelvio, with all of the tech and quality of the new California 1400.  The two questions in my mind are: How long will I have to wait for it? and, What do I ride in the interim?

[Nic in Western NYS]

Anyone care to compare riding positions Stelvio vs. Breva 1100?

[Dean Rose]

Anyone care to compare riding positions Stelvio vs. Breva 1100?

Yeah, talk to me.


Dean

[Nic in Western NYS]

Yeah, talk to me.


Dean

So I enjoy the Breva position (which is similar to my old Bandit and RT) but might do better with a slightly more forward lean (maybe midway between Breva and Ducati ST).  Inseam around 35", 6'3" 195.  Nic

[Dean Rose]

So I enjoy the Breva position (which is similar to my old Bandit and RT) but might do better with a slightly more forward lean (maybe midway between Breva and Ducati ST).  Inseam around 35", 6'3" 195.  Nic

On my Breva setup I am leaning slightly forward. I'm interested in hear from someone who has riden both and their comments on the differences in riding position.

Dean

[leafman60]

The pre-NTX Stelvio should be in the 500-pound range.

[kirb]

The pre-NTX Stelvio should be in the 500-pound range.

I have a hard time imagining the Stelvio (NTX or not) being less than 600#. Here is mine full of fuel- http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/11/big-bikes-hit-scale.html

660lbs with ~60lbs of that fuel. The skid plate, crash bars, case rack, and spoke wheels can't be that much over a standard Stelvio with cast wheels...

[leafman60]

I have a hard time imagining the Stelvio (NTX or not) being less than 600#. Here is mine full of fuel- http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/11/big-bikes-hit-scale.html

660lbs with ~60lbs of that fuel. The skid plate, crash bars, case rack, and spoke wheels can't be that much over a standard Stelvio with cast wheels...

Yes, it's close.

A year or two ago I used a digital scale and ramp setup that I calibrated with a 100-pound weight instead of a large truck scale to weigh my NTX and a BMW GSA. Both bikes came in at about 630-40, fully gassed and rigged, with the Guzzi slightly less but that could be weighing error.

I investigated the big truck scales and was told by more than one operator that at low weights, like the 600 pound range, the error in such scales was greater than at typically higher weights.

We also weighed and calculated an estimated weight for the saddlebags, the bag mounts, the crash bars, lights and all the other items that come on the NTX (and which are added to the GSA). Yes, those items aggregate close to 100 pounds.

Published wet weight for a '10  non-NTX model was 550 pounds.

Riders Hill had a red 2010 for sale and they had an advertised weight in that range.

In years past, I rode the hell out of an 09 model that I kept for someone over an extended period of time and the difference in weight from an NTX was obvious.

[Tinkerfreak]

On my Breva setup I am leaning slightly forward. I'm interested in hear from someone who has riden both and their comments on the differences in riding position.

Dean

I own both and find the Breva position a tad more confined than the Stelvio at 6'2" with 34" inseam. The Breva has a 1 3/4" bar riser and a corbin saddle with Buell pegs for a 1" lower resting place for my feet which gives me a little more room for my aging knees. The Stelvio has 2" bar risers and I sit pretty much upright and from MY perspective about as comfortable for the long haul as I can get. I have a Cal Sci windscreen that took some niggling to get it to mount properly but makes a world of difference for me and if I keep the bike I intend to do a custom saddle for more leg room and longer saddle time. At this time I have no intention of getting rid of the Breva cause it puts a smile on my face everytime (when it is working and the electrical gremlins are behaving).

Hope this helps

Cheers

[JohnG.]

I was intrigued by the new Triumph Tiger 800XCX at the Progressive Motorcycle Show.  The Tiger seems to split the difference between my DR650 and the big ADV bikes, and looks to be less expensive to buy and maintain than the BMW F800GS.  



I don't need 2-up capacity, but I want something to pull both on and off-road duty that's more comfortable to travel distances with than the DR.  Any opinions among the group?

Probably the wrong group to be asking... but that's the direction I thinking of...

[G-zulu]

I replaced my FJR with the NTX. It's more comfortable and a better long distance mount (for me). Very well done bike overall...

Ive done the same, put some long daze in the saddle with this bike (1200+) and was pleased on how it performed. Better than the FJR in terms of comfort (peg to seat relationship) and engine buzziness. I think it's a great street bike for touring and surprises you on how well it does on gravel/two track roads..