Author Topic: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?  (Read 6497 times)

Offline Triple Jim

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Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« on: February 19, 2015, 02:54:26 PM »
My apologies if this is an old, beat to death topic, but I didn't find anything on it with a quick forum search.  While checking the condition of the breaker points on my Mille today, I found that the left cylinder's points had a very loose shaft.  It's the post that the actual moving contact rotates on.  I assumed it was steel, so I tried to make a small TIG weld on the back, and found that it's not steel, but instead appears to be aluminum!  So it's an aluminum, or possibly pot metal shaft staked into a steel plate.  I'm amazed they work at all.  I went to a box of spare parts and found an old set of points, and the left one also had a loose shaft.

What's the deal?  Are aftermarket points available that are of a better design?  I checked a couple of our usual suppliers and the descriptions are very sparse, and don't mention anything about how they're made.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 04:01:37 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 04:02:57 PM »
I have no best solution, but goodonya for finding the problem!   ;-T

My not-best solution would be to pull the post and replace it with a steel pin that you can then tack into place.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 04:09:49 PM »
That's an odd one, never seen that problem myself. 
Charlie
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 05:07:03 PM »
Right, RK, if I have to, I'll turn a steel post with the proper boss at the base and E-clip groove, and weld it from the back.

Charlie, they're Magneti Marelli points, but I don't know how old they are.  The ones in the distributor look clean and relatively new.  The used ones in the spares box are corroded and older looking.  Both sets came with the Mille when I bought it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 05:07:27 PM by Triple Jim »
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 05:07:03 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 06:26:59 PM »
Is the mille a dual-point system?

IIRC, on my dual points I undid a screw on the advance plate and popped he points out as a unit.  There was no disassembly involving a circlip (although I know the kind of '2-piece' points that do disassemble from a fixed post).  But I have not contemplated a MM distributor in years, so my remembery may be impaired.

You might look at a new set of points to save time.

That's all I've got.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 06:35:07 PM »
Is the mille a dual-point system?

Yes.

Quote
IIRC, on my dual points I undid a screw on the advance plate and popped he points out as a unit.  There was no disassembly involving a circlip (although I know the kind of '2-piece' points that do disassemble from a fixed post).  But I have not contemplated a MM distributor in years, so my remembery may be impaired.

Each of the two points assemblies is held to the plate with two screws as usual, with one acting as the pivot, and the other acting to lock it in position when you set the gap.  You normally don't have to take off the E clip and remove the arm from the shaft, but when the shaft is about to fall off and you need to fix it, then you do.

Quote
You might look at a new set of points to save time.

Yes, that's an option.  But if new ones are made the same way, I'd rather make steel posts and have a decent set.  The contacts and all other parts are in very good condition.  For now, I re-riveted the end and the post is tight on the plate.  I'm hoping to hear that there are better ones available now, and where I can get them.  I appreciate your thoughts in any case.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 06:35:25 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 09:33:23 PM »
Let me poke around the stash and see if I have a good advance plate.  If I do, I don't need a good one for the dizzy project.  We can trade.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 09:59:31 PM »
I appreciate it, but I'm confused.  The points shaft I'm concerned about is part of the replaceable points assembly.  The "plate" I mentioned is just the base plate for that assembly.  I'll post a photo if it will help.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 10:01:14 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 01:42:27 AM »
That was the first assumption I made, but since I wasn't looking at it, I later assumed the post was part of the advance plate and you had two-piece points.  So to clarify -- this is a points mfgr problem, not a distributor wear problem?

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2015, 08:10:23 AM »
So to clarify -- this is a points mfgr problem, not a distributor wear problem?

Correct.
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Offline Hahnda

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 11:11:28 AM »
Any idea what the part number is on your points? Same as all the other earlier dual point distributors?

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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 11:26:38 AM »
Any idea what the part number is on your points? Same as all the other earlier dual point distributors?

There's no part number on the points.  I assume they're standard Magneti Marelli points for the stock dual point distributor.  Because of the way the shaft behaved when I thought it was steel and tried to weld it, I now believe it's pot metal.  It's non-magnetic, and soft.  Here are three photos of one of the old sets that was in the spares box:





« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 11:27:22 AM by Triple Jim »
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Offline Hahnda

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 11:45:17 AM »
I have some in stock that I believe are made by Facet.



That post appears to be made of steel on these. Well at least it holds a magnet.

http://scramblercycle.highwire.com/product/moto-guzzi-ignition-points-contact-set-early-tonti-models-14715429-30
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 12:06:57 PM »
OK thank you.  Those appear to be the same as the ones that Moto International lists.  Maybe everyone has moved on to Facet points and I just happen to have a couple old sets.

Edit:  I just ordered a set from your link, thanks again.  I'll take a close look when they get here and post what I find out.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 12:11:21 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 12:32:34 PM »
My quick fix would be to peen the post into place.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 12:40:30 PM »
My quick fix would be to peen the post into place.

I made a die to re-form the head and gave it a couple good whacks to make it tight.  I look forward to trying the points I ordered from Scrambler Cycle when they get there.  Amazingly I already got shipping confirmation.  That's fast.

When I opened the distributor yesterday I found the left points had the arm so crooked that the contacts were overlapping only over about 1/2 their area.  I have a feeling that at some point in the not so distant future the post would have come out, or gotten crooked enough that the points quit touching each other completely.  That would have been a messy one to fix on the side of the road.
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Offline Hahnda

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 12:43:07 PM »
Yep, points are packed up and ready to go. Thanks  ;-T
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 12:58:14 PM »
I'm now browsing the 29 pages of Guzzi parts on the site, to get an idea of what you have.  It's a lot.

Thanks for the quick service and the help.
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2015, 02:10:40 PM »
The points arrived today.  Again, thanks for the fast service and good price.  They do still have a non-steel shaft.  If you test it with a magnet at the top, away from the steel base plate, there is no attraction.  But the good news is that they are tight and non-wobbly, so I'll assume they'll work well.
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Offline Hahnda

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2015, 02:20:15 PM »
What! I must have tested it 6 times to be sure. I was using a pretty large magnet though.
2003 V11 Lemans - 2000 Quota w/ Sidecar
1996 California - 1976 Convert
1975 850T -750S Project - 1975 Eldorado Police
1973 Eldorado - 3x 1971 Ambassador
1970 Ambassador - 1963 Stornello Sport
1949 GTV - 1948 Airone

www.scramblercycle. com

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2015, 05:23:10 PM »
If you hold the magnet at the bottom end of the shaft where it's staked into the plate, it feels sort of magnetic, because of the proximity to the plate.  But if you check it at the top end, the magnet isn't attracted.  It's OK though, I have a new set of points, and the shafts are nice and tight, and I appreciate your help.
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Breaker Points Shaft (Post) Loose, Are Better Ones Available?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2015, 07:26:29 PM »
This is good test
I've never had or seen before problem with MM orig breakers, not sure why this post has come loose
But
I sold Facet points in the 80's, had a few fly apart after only a few months
Recalled all I'd sold and refitted MM

Or course these may not be same thing but we worked out at time one set was not quite identical to orig in shape and heel position, the other side was identical
the "funny" set always broke
Hope that's history

 

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