Author Topic: Info on O2 sensor modulator,  (Read 6232 times)

Offline ozziguzzi

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Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« on: February 21, 2015, 04:49:08 AM »
Hi guys,
I've only been lurking over the past few years because I have been in the K world and didn't have a Guzzi, but am now back with a V7 special.

It has come with a Finebau (motociclo) O2 modulator (not fitted at the time I picked it up), but i know nothing about these units virtue and how they work.

If there's been a post that's covered this subject can someone direct me to it.

If not, can I have the following points clarified;

Was the mixture setting at the factory leaner than the optimal running ratio because of a need to meet an exhaust emission standard.?

Is the spitty farty start up and cold running a consequence of this, and the occasional backfire on over run.?

Is this why buyers get this piece of kit, to just deal with this possible leanness, or are there other benefits?

What is the impact on cruising economy?

There are a range of settings on it. What is the one most people opt for?


Any info is welcome
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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 04:51:56 AM »
Yes: don't use it. there are more mature ways of changing injection these days if needed. Lots of posts
Paul

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Vasco DG

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 05:01:38 AM »
While the single lambda smallblocks seem to respond to one of these quite well as Paul says, there are much, much better and safer ways of dealing with fueling issues nowadays than these awful plug in kludges.

Pete

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Re:
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 05:52:02 AM »
V7 Special? As in single throttle body motor with dual O2 sensors?

Yes lean, like everything built the list decade.

No, that's not why it's farty or stumbles on startup on a 1tb motor, it's an issue of idle management.
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Re:
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 05:52:02 AM »

Offline sign216

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2015, 06:49:07 AM »
I had a similar device, an O2 modulator I made myself.  It worked fine and improved idle and low speed performance. 

There are more expensive and more complicated gadgets to achieve similar goals, but the 02 mod was direct and easy to use.
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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 07:08:35 AM »
If yours is a single throttle body V7 you should get the latest ECU map from Guzzi.  This map seems to have solved most fueling issues, stalling when cold being one.  Your dealer should have this.  I'd stay away from the O2 manipulator/spoofer gadgets.  Had one on a Norge and the bike ended up running so rich it fouled the O2 sensors and pushed the bike into limp home mode....800 miles from home.  Evidently others have had better luck but I'm doing fine with a re-map.

Peter Y.
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Offline sign216

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 07:47:10 AM »
Most of the modulators are capable of being adjusted.  Until I found the sweet spot I checked the air-fuel mixture by looking at the plugs.
Once I got it set right, I didn't have to worry about it.

But I've heard of others that had bad experiences. 

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Online bad Chad

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 09:17:33 AM »
I just bought one of these from Guzzitech, works great on my Breva 1100.
http://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/gt-02-optimizers/
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Offline M0T0Geezer

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 03:54:48 PM »

You might want to read my comments on Power Commanders and O2 Optimizers on Page 2 of this thread:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74827.0

Yes, my '04 Breva 750 has a dual throttle body and one O2 sensor, but I think a proper fuel re-mapping in the ECU is the best and least expensive (not to mention less frustrating) way to go.

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Offline ozziguzzi

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 06:20:57 PM »
Thanks for those responses, which despite being slightly mixed, have the majority saying don’t use this thing and get a re mapping of the system.
It’s a single throttle body (VIN – ZGULWG008CM11569   Engine # 12894) and despite not being registered until early 2014, may be a 2012 model.  Anyone want to confirm that?
I don’t know that there’s ever been a re mapping and I can’t find the original owner. Number 2 bought the modulator so it seems that he didn’t try this better approach.

I had to go to Brisbane to pick it up and there was a cyclone bearing down – the rain dump of 300mm was in full swing, so wasn’t able to spend much time with the seller trying to get all the details of the bike’s history. Not the best buying method.

Q
If there was a need for re mapping to get the engine running better, then why wasn’t this a Guzzi (dealer) service offered to owners in the same way that cars get a recall notice if there is a defect. This bike is now outside its warranty period so that would complicate things and give the dealer an OUT.
So this seems to be an option:

Quote “ I downloaded Paul's Guzzidiag, installed a map from Molly here- bike runs great. Get Guzzidiag and cables, give Paul a donation, and do it yourself. “ (boat detective) His was a 1200 S so is the same option available for the 750.
But “cables” –can someone clarify because getting US postage is a hassle. And point me in the right direction to find ‘Paul’. I have a very electronically smart K mate who could do this,
But maybe he’d want to talk to one of you guys first.

One thing I will do, is put the original lanfranconi pipes back on because its got a set of Pipemasters ( which don’t seem to have much baffling) and see what this does for the running. I have to do this in any case because for the ownership transfer I need a RWC and there’s no way any bike shop is going to pass these pipes.

I read the suggested thread - http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74827.0
But if there are others, then can you point me to them. The “search” doesn’t give me anything, nor does GOOGLE.

Clarification required:
Randown says ‘PLUS if your bike has a lambda’
Vasco D G ‘While the single lambda smallblocks seem ‘
What’s this lambda?  I thought lambda was a scientific expression of the optimum relationship between fuel and air for an engine.
Do these O2 modulators just work in a similar fashion to ‘chipping’ a diesel engine, where with the crude ones, all you’re doing is increasing the fuel delivery pressure, to the possible detriment of the engines longevity?

So thanks for the contributions. Seems like I have a bit to learn but as I’ve found out in the past, this is the forum where you get some good help.
2012 V7 special STB
2014 V7 Racer STB
2016 Indian Scout
2012 racer TTB
K75
SV650X cafe
W800 cafe
GB 500
Suzuki Titan T500
Honda MB5 (with a whoppa 100cc engine transplant)
Kawasaki Sherpa
CX 650 (2)
DR 650
BR250 (3)
DR 200
Spadas (3)

Offline pyoungbl

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2015, 07:39:02 PM »
I'll try to add some clarity...

The O2 sensors (lamda sensors) that come with the bike are narrow band sensors.  They just tell the computer (ECU) that the exhaust is lean or rich compared to some base line...that is government mandated.  They do not tell how much rich or lean, just that correction is needed.  When you plug in an O2 spoofer you are just putting in a resistance between the sensor and the ECU.  In essence you are forcing the sensor signal to indicate a lean condition and then the computer will shoot more fuel into the engine no matter what the rpm.  The problem is two fold: this will happen across the entire rpm range and you have no idea how this adjustment is actually working for your engine.  It may have been OK for somebody in California at sea level but you are in Colorado at 6,000 feet elevation.  The only way to get this all to work for your engine is to put the bike on a dyno and measure the exhaust gas under load and across the rpm range.  You will probably find that the kit you have works fine for a narrow rpm range but beyond that it's a crap shoot.  Best bet is to, once again, put the bike on a dyno and tweak the ECU map so you get the best possible combustion across the RPM range.  Others have done this so the map is out there.  In fact, I understand that the re-map offered by Guzzi came from this kind of work.  The newest map should be available from your dealer at a modest cost, if not for free. 

It might help to explain that Guzzi went from a V7 that had two throttle bodies to a V7 that had one throttle body.  At the same time they went from a single O2 sensor to dual O2 sensors.  Thus, the dual TB bikes have one O2 sensor, single TB has two O2 sensors.  To make all this more interesting, the dual TB must be balanced but the single never needs that.  You need to figure out if your bike is a single TB of dual TB.  Then folks like Pete Roper (Vasco DG) can help you make the bike run right.
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Offline ozziguzzi

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 10:36:24 PM »
thanks for all that stuff, pyoungbl. Very helpful if you can understand what is going on. I'm intrigued by the statement that the lamda sensor is trying to align it self with a government mandated level and so I'll ask Pete Roper what the story is here in AUS.

Also if you're here, Pete
you said[quote author=Vasco DG link  While the single lambda smallblocks seem to respond to one of these quite well as Paul says, there are much, much better and safer ways of dealing with fueling issues nowadays than these awful plug in kludges.

Mine is a single TB so that means it has two lamda sensors Right? but you spoke of the single lamda sensor so what is the follow on from that?

So can you advise a 'treatment' plan i.e. someone good, I can take the bike to and maybe get it remapped if necessary. (Northern NSW - SEQ area

Is the Paul i referrred to "pauldaytona" in Holland ?

anyone want to comment on the pipes issue?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 10:46:00 PM by ozziguzzi »
2012 V7 special STB
2014 V7 Racer STB
2016 Indian Scout
2012 racer TTB
K75
SV650X cafe
W800 cafe
GB 500
Suzuki Titan T500
Honda MB5 (with a whoppa 100cc engine transplant)
Kawasaki Sherpa
CX 650 (2)
DR 650
BR250 (3)
DR 200
Spadas (3)

Vasco DG

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2015, 11:00:08 PM »
Gimme a call tomorrow, my number I on the Guzzi Australia web page. Much easier than typing pages of stuff.

Pete

Offline ozziguzzi

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 02:54:31 AM »
Sorry but i cant get a Guzzi webpage -only MG Australia, the dealer.

Can't get the number in white pages.
2012 V7 special STB
2014 V7 Racer STB
2016 Indian Scout
2012 racer TTB
K75
SV650X cafe
W800 cafe
GB 500
Suzuki Titan T500
Honda MB5 (with a whoppa 100cc engine transplant)
Kawasaki Sherpa
CX 650 (2)
DR 650
BR250 (3)
DR 200
Spadas (3)

beetle

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Re: Info on O2 sensor modulator,
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 03:07:02 AM »
Click HERE.  Moto Moda.

 

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