Author Topic: For those with Power Commander experience  (Read 4951 times)

Offline Travlr

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For those with Power Commander experience
« on: February 21, 2015, 11:45:47 AM »
My Scura came with a Power Commander 2.  I have no idea what map it's using.  But I'd like to try some different tunes.  Would you:

1. Leave in the PC 2 and try and find some different maps.

2. Upgrade to a PC 3.

3. Remove it and reflash the stock unit.  (If that is possible)

Any ideas/thoughts on tuning a V11 Sport FI are welcome.

Mike
2008 Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport
1991 Moto Guzzi LeMans 5
1984 Moto Guzzi LeMans 3
1977 Laverda Jota 1000

Offline LowRyter

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 11:52:56 AM »
I have one on my V11 Sport (along with pipes & filter).  Whoever tuned it got it to run pretty well at 34 mpg.

I occasionally dust it off when I take the seat off.   :D
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline boatdetective

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 12:30:17 PM »
I put a PC on my 1200S with an O2 "optimizer". Didn't do a thing. Total waste of money. The sullen service person at "Technoresearch" couldn't be bothered with me when i called to decipher the instruction "manual".

I downloaded Paul's Guzzidiag, installed a map from Molly here- bike runs great. Get Guzzidiag and cables, give Paul a donation, and do it yourself.
Jonathan K
Marblehead, MA

1981 V50III "Gina"
2007 Griso 1100 "Bluto" (departed but not forgotten)
2003 EV "Lola" gone to the "Ridin' Realtor" in Peoria
2007 1200 Sport "Ginger"

"Who's the cat who won't cop out, when there's danger all about?"  -Isaac Hayes

Offline skromfols

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 12:33:39 PM »
My experience is that you need to dyno tune it.  I spent almost a year working with someone without a dyno trying to get my Nevada with a Power Commander V to run properly and finally took it to someone with a dyno and he resolved the problem within a couple hours.
Stan

98 Valkyrie
08 Triumph America
05 Moto Guzzi Nevada

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 12:33:39 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2015, 01:24:17 PM »
I bought a Jackal with a PC.  It was the 'turn up the radio' approach to fixing badly synched throttles, which I found while going through the normal adjustments.  I dialed in the stock stuff and never needed to use the PC.

I'd try removing it and seeing if you can fix whatever problem the PC is masking.  If it won't run right without it, then see if it helps.

Offline PeteS

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 01:36:05 PM »
How effective a PC will be depends on what you start with. The 16 bit computers were a lot closer than the old 8 bit monsters. I tried three different chips in my '98 EV. None of them was right across the range and all made worse gas mileage from stock. Finally got Todd's PC for my EV along with the stock chip. Power went way up and mileage went to around 46 mpg.
Best results will require some dyno time with someone who knows what he doing.

Pete

Offline M0T0Geezer

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 03:22:32 PM »

10 Steps to Horror and Happiness with a Power Commander

01) Guv mandates planet-saving "green" emissions standards to get reelected.
02) Engineers gasp and grope trying to meet (01) and keep their engines running.
03) Company Lawyers tell engineers to lower guv standards by 10% "just in case" guv sues them.
04) Company produces 1,000s of new bikes with ECUs crippled to meet standards in (03) & (04).
05) Hapless rider buys a new motorcycle which will barely start and runs like pure schite.
06) Rider spends $500 on Power Commander and O2 Optimizer to fool ECU into giving more gas.
07) Rider spends $700 more on a laptop and ECU software, and the next year fiddling and twiddling.
08) Alas, motorcycle still barely starts and still runs mostly like schite.
09) Humiliated rider pulls ECU and sends it to Todd over at Guzzi Tech to reflash it with a proper fuel map.
10) New fuel map runs the engine so well that rider rips out both PC and O2O, selling them on eBay.

This is a true story that happened to me and my 2004 Breva 750cc.  Believe it.

'Geezer
2007 Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 USA

My 65+ years of motorcycling here:

http://www.dansher.com/mywheels.htm

Wisdom from the road:

http://www.dansher.com/bikequotes.html

Play guitar or keyboard?  You will like:

http://www.dansher.com/audio/pdf_tunes.html

Offline Randown

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 04:12:56 PM »
My Scura came with a Power Commander 2.  I have no idea what map it's using.  But I'd like to try some different tunes.  Would you:

1. Leave in the PC 2 and try and find some different maps.

2. Upgrade to a PC 3.

3. Remove it and reflash the stock unit.  (If that is possible)

Any ideas/thoughts on tuning a V11 Sport FI are welcome.

Mike

If I'm not mistaken PaulDaytona's work makes the PC obsolete for your bike. If you can access the the ECU directly to make map changes that's way better than adding another layer complexity.

PLUS if your bike has a lambda you get to KEEP it as opposed to early PCs which defeated it & its benefits.

IF you didn't have access to the fuel map with Guzzidiag (which I believe you do) than an ECU reflash or a PCVAT (PowerCommander 5 with autotune) would be the ticket. No dyno needed.

These bikes as many others do not fuel all that great from the factory. Have fun!  ;-T
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 04:21:46 PM by Randown »
Flippity Floppity Floop

Offline Carlo DeSantis

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 04:35:46 PM »
As with many others, I found that a PC didn't quite do the trick on my '01 EV.  This was despite taking it to a dynotuner and having T odd send me multiple maps to try to get it right.

After struggling with the PC for a couple of years, I took it out and brought the bike to Jim Barron at RF Classics. Seems what I really needed was to have the bike set up by someone who knows what he's doing.

My suggestion would be to ensure that your bike is set up as well as possible, and if you're still unhappy look at a reflash. Whatever you, be sure that someone competent is doing the work.  Coulda saved time and money by admitting early on that I didn't know what I was doing. :)

Best, 

Carlo
Chuck in Illinois
Crystal Lake, IL USA

'75 850 T3 Custom
'11 R1200R

Online balvenie

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 04:53:09 PM »
            Had a PC111 in my '04 Cali but the pinging and missing continued. IMO, take it out and go to someone who can tune EFI.
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline Moto Fugazzi

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2015, 05:06:09 PM »
Mike,
Are there any intake or exhaust mods done to your bike? Either way, you could disconnect it, ride if for a day or two, and see how it runs. You could then determine if you want to go the Guzzidiag route, or a reflash from someone that knows what they're doing.
Ken
Ken
2004 V11 Cafe Sport
2009 V7C White
2007 Griso Black-Sold
1978 V50 II Blue-Sold

Offline mwrenn

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 10:48:29 PM »
My Scura came with a Power Commander 2.  I have no idea what map it's using.  But I'd like to try some different tunes.  Would you:

1. Leave in the PC 2 and try and find some different maps.

2. Upgrade to a PC 3.

3. Remove it and reflash the stock unit.  (If that is possible)

Any ideas/thoughts on tuning a V11 Sport FI are welcome.

I would go with # 3.  Get Todd at Guzzitech to reflash it.  If you are just wanting to try different stuff, then you could spend some money on a PC V and auto tune, manipulate your fuel maps with a laptop.  But I would start with a reflash.  Might be all you need.

Mike

Orange Guzzi

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 09:42:07 AM »
10 Steps to Horror and Happiness with a Power Commander

01) Guv mandates planet-saving "green" emissions standards to get reelected.
02) Engineers gasp and grope trying to meet (01) and keep their engines running.
03) Company Lawyers tell engineers to lower guv standards by 10% "just in case" guv sues them.
04) Company produces 1,000s of new bikes with ECUs crippled to meet standards in (03) & (04).
05) Hapless rider buys a new motorcycle which will barely start and runs like pure schite.
06) Rider spends $500 on Power Commander and O2 Optimizer to fool ECU into giving more gas.
07) Rider spends $700 more on a laptop and ECU software, and the next year fiddling and twiddling.
08) Alas, motorcycle still barely starts and still runs mostly like schite.
09) Humiliated rider pulls ECU and sends it to Todd over at Guzzi Tech to reflash it with a proper fuel map.
10) New fuel map runs the engine so well that rider rips out both PC and O2O, selling them on eBay.

This is a true story that happened to me and my 2004 Breva 750cc.  Believe it.

'Geezer

11) Buy high dollar exhaust from Guzzi Tech, bike stilll runs, but has bad spot in rpm range.
12) Replace air box with K & N pods, bike still has bad spot in Rpm range.
13) Buy PC3 from Guzzi Tech, install, sync, adjust fuel mixture several times with no significant changes, remove PC3, reinstall PC3 and still have a bad spot in same throttle position rpm range.
14) Remove TPS, disassemble, find that the TPS has been bad since the bike was shipped from the factory in 2003.  Contacts bent and out of alignment.
15) Replace TPS and the bike runs better than it ever has.  Weather got cold, days got short and I sit in my garage sipping adult beverages, flipping the remote control waiting for the cold and snow to go away. 

Bill Havins

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Re: For those with Power Commander experience
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 10:44:55 AM »
Mike,

If you really want to try a PCIII USB I have one that I took off of my '98 EV sitting in a box.  It is a very clean unit and I'd be glad to sell it for $50.

Why did I take it off?  It is my opinion that Guzzis, when set up well, run very nicely.  And I wanted to replace the Bub mufflers on the bike with stock (stock-looking) units.  And I don't care for K&N filters (I now run a stock filter).

As said above, when dyno-ed by an expert, a PCIII USB may produce a real "fire-breathing monster."  But I didn't want that - I wanted a reliable scooter that ran very well (and didn't scare small children with the roar).

So, if you want a PCIII USB for $50 send me a PM.  After replacing the seals in the throttle bodies, cleaning the injectors, replacing the crossover and Mufflers with Keihan Systems stainless steel units, replacing the air filter, and performing countless hours of diagnostics and tuning I have a Guzzi that runs just the way I want it to.  And I know just what to do if it begins to run a little ragged.

Good luck!

 


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