Author Topic: Safe Driving  (Read 10741 times)

Offline Lannis

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Safe Driving
« on: August 04, 2015, 07:08:40 PM »
Three crashes this morning on a road near here.   As usual, people are saying "It's a dangerous road, something ought to be done!"

It's a straight 4-lane highway will some hills, no driveways, 1 side road in one mile.   The problem is that it's posted for 55 MPH, and traffic roars through at 70 MPH or more in the mornings (the heavy commute time, I rode it every day for years).

I know how people drive on that road.   They're speeding, weaving through traffic, tailgating, eating, putting on makeup, texting, and talking.   The DOT will get pressure to make that road "safer".

I suggest that if everyone drove the speed limit, had both hands on the wheel, eyes on the road, concentrating on what they were doing instead of doing something else, and had been trained to drive .... there would NEVER be a crash on that road, unless a deer jumped through a windshield or a tree fell on a car.    Instead of 100 crashes per year on that section, there might be one or two.

Why can't people get that through their heads?   As responsible motorcyclists, we tend to operate that way ANYhow, just for self preservation, since we don't have armor, airbags, and belts to protect us from our own idiocy .....

Lannis
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 07:33:56 PM »
70? You guys are slackers.. :evil: :smiley:
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 07:40:01 PM »
70? You guys are slackers.. :evil: :smiley:

If folks drove 70, but did none of the things Lannis mentioned (and that we all see everyday out there), the speed alone would cause few, if any, accidents.

Bill


Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 07:51:18 PM »
They just all need loud exhaust pipes. I hear :tongue: loud pipes save lives.
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 07:51:18 PM »

Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 08:01:36 PM »
If folks drove 70, but did none of the things Lannis mentioned (and that we all see everyday out there), the speed alone would cause few, if any, accidents.

Bill

I agree.   But people would have to be trained to know to follow even farther behind the car in front, and it seems that people can't STAND to do that ......

Lannis
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2015, 09:00:24 PM »
Lannis,

On Sunday I was grateful I did not get on one of the bikes.  Driving home from Houston following a gravel truck on SW Freeway at 75 mph, the truck suddenly spews a shit storm of bouncing gravel.  I laid into the Mazda 3 brakes and still got hammered.  Would have been deadly on a motorcycle. Then on suburb road, go around bend:  tree cutting/grinding crew around corner, no warning, tree debris all over both lanes, one and a half lanes full of trucks and grinder and workers ignoring everything.  Again I had to radically slow and swerve the little red car.

So I missed two potentially lethal situations within a half hour.  Yep, grateful I opted for the car.   :angry:

Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 09:21:31 PM »
Lannis,

On Sunday I was grateful I did not get on one of the bikes.  Driving home from Houston following a gravel truck on SW Freeway at 75 mph, the truck suddenly spews a shit storm of bouncing gravel.  I laid into the Mazda 3 brakes and still got hammered.  Would have been deadly on a motorcycle. Then on suburb road, go around bend:  tree cutting/grinding crew around corner, no warning, tree debris all over both lanes, one and a half lanes full of trucks and grinder and workers ignoring everything.  Again I had to radically slow and swerve the little red car.

So I missed two potentially lethal situations within a half hour.  Yep, grateful I opted for the car.   :angry:

You're right, it doesn't have to be "other cars" that are the problem, it can be trucks and work crews.

Whenever someone describes a dangerous situation, I always do a little thought experiment to say "How would I have avoided that situation on a bike?"

1) Maybe it's just the part of the country I live in, or the roads I ride, but in my whole riding career I've never had occasion to follow a loaded gravel truck at 75 MPH.   I'd back off ... way off ... to a point where if he dumped his load or threw a gator, I could get stopped or avoid it ....

2) One of the reasons that some people "ride faster than I do" is not necessarily (although it sometimes is) because their motorcycle is faster or they can handle their bike better or lean farther, but because they are willing to go around a blind turn at a speed at which, if they found the situation you describe, a tree fallen across the road, they would not be able to stop in time to avoid hitting it.    I just don't go that fast around blind turns; I go at a speed such that if an overturned truck or a fallen tree suddenly appears, I can get stopped.

That being said, there are some situations where (like you) I'm glad I was in a car and not on a bike, usually involving going through paving-work areas where a 3-inch step has been left between lanes, or something falls off a pickup truck ahead of me that I didn't see coming .....

Lannis
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 09:35:40 PM »
But people would have to be trained to know to follow even farther behind the car in front, and it seems that people can't STAND to do that

Most of the automobile driving that most people do is governed by emotion and programming, not logical thought or skill.  And that probably applies to almost everything, not just driving.  The fact that we often don't remember the actual drive that got us somewhere proves that we were on autopilot.  Nothing is going to change that, either.
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Offline trippah

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 10:08:08 PM »
Yesterday, I crossed over the Quaboag River at White's Landing, the site of a bridge rebuilt project.  It has been going on so long they have installed lights to control the one open lane.  Besides the lights, there were two policemen standing near a dump truck.  A Volvo backhoe was finishing a trench for who knows what purpose, and a fairly attractive young gal in a safety outfit was holding a slow/stop sign while watching the dump truck idling.  As safe as I felt, the dude coming up behind me tapped my bumper, had no clue that or why I was stopped (This is why I do not carry ) and no one bothered to check out the love tap.   :shocked:

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 04:22:06 AM »
I see the same thing here daily. A mix of folks trying to get to work, a great deal of commercial traffic, and light enforcement makes a dangerous mix. I try to concentrate on keeping a safe following distance and I listen to folk music to prevent losing my cool...
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 06:13:03 AM »
Most of the automobile driving that most people do is governed by emotion and programming, not logical thought or skill.  And that probably applies to almost everything, not just driving.  The fact that we often don't remember the actual drive that got us somewhere proves that we were on autopilot.  Nothing is going to change that, either.

Two counterexamples to "nothing is going to change that" and "applies to almost everything" pop into mind almost instantly.   Piloting an airplane, and conning a ship.   

Billions of people fly in airplanes every year, but the death toll annually is in the dozens or sometimes hundreds, not the hundreds of thousands.   That's because pilots have to learn their job, and to pay attention to it while they're doing it.    Ships are the same way.   SOMETIMES a captain piles up a cruise ship on the rocks, but it's very rare - most of the time, they know what they are doing, and they pay attention to the job.

For some reason, we think that 32,000 dead people each year is an acceptable price for yakking on a phone, eating bagels, or putting on makeup while driving ....

Lannis
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 06:34:45 AM »
The decline I've seen in US drivers over the last 10 years  has made me give up riding, plus the Convert needed repairs that I wasn't interested in doing. And I'm sure it will get worse as we load up the new cars with even more distracting electronics. If I become unable to drive a car in 15 years I don't think I'll be too disappointed.

Offline markw

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 07:38:48 AM »
Is some of the problem that drivers feel that there are so many safeguards such as ABS,airbags etc that the consequences of an accident will not affect them ? If a long sharp spike was installed on the steering wheel I bet there would be a rapid decline in these incidents.......

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2015, 08:16:37 AM »
Two counterexamples to "nothing is going to change that" and "applies to almost everything" pop into mind almost instantly.

Hmmm... I should have added that what I said applies to things that people are free to do on their own, as opposed to structured professional things that require significant training to overcome our natural tendencies.  With less training, structure, and professionalism, airline pilots might allow female models to join them for a small party in the cockpit occasionally, and bus drivers might occupy themselves by exchanging text messages with friends, for example.
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 08:19:30 AM »
Back in the 90s a person I knew was sent to the Porsche factory for business. A Porsche rep picked her up at the airport in a Carrera twin turbo. When she got in the car she had a drink in hand, looked around and couldn't find a cup holder. She asked the rep where one was and he replied that there are none. When you are driving, drive, when you are drinking, drink. We do not do both. He then pulled on to the autobahn and set the cruise at 200KPH.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 08:22:43 AM »
  With less training, structure, and professionalism, airline pilots might allow female models to join them for a small party in the cockpit occasionally, and bus drivers might occupy themselves by exchanging text messages with friends, for example.

The airlines could fix that on flights that I was on by providing me a seat behind the pilot, with a large hatpin in my hand .... And I think that South Asian bus drivers already have the texting and goofing-off thing covered.   

Or is that "bus drivers in the South Asian regions"?   I'm still not used to this ....

Lannis
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Offline segesta

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 08:41:15 AM »
I've mentioned this on other threads, but the challenge here in Chicago is that you don't know if your fellow driver learned his skills in Lahore, Manila, Kiev, San Salvador, Lagos... or Chicago. Everyone is an equally terrible driver, but that terribleness manifests itself in different ways--making riding an even greater challenge.
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Offline screamday

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 08:45:43 AM »
Maybe the education system needs to go back to the kind of driver education training I had where part of the classroom time was watching real life films of paramedics peeling screaming people out of mangled hunks of steel and glass. It's been over 40 years since I sat in that class and I still remember those films. I did have an impact on how I drive/ride.  :copcar:
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 09:12:03 AM »
Maybe the education system needs to go back to the kind of driver education training I had where part of the classroom time was watching real life films of paramedics peeling screaming people out of mangled hunks of steel and glass. It's been over 40 years since I sat in that class and I still remember those films. I did have an impact on how I drive/ride.  :copcar:

Not a bad idea.   But keep in mind that, due to the Internet and YouTube and the News, people see that gross, terrible sort of imagery now every week, where you never could 40 years ago unless in a Driver Ed class; whether it be Russian dash-cams or "Real Cop" shows or whatever (generally preceded with "This Video Contains Disturbing Images".)

But it never seems to disturb the comfortable .... It Can't Happen To Me ....

Lannis
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:14:22 AM by Lannis »
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2015, 09:21:59 AM »
It's been over 40 years since I sat in that class and I still remember those films. I did have an impact on how I drive/ride.

Good for you, that it made a long lasting impression.  I don't think everyone has that happen.  I remember the junior high school scare movie about smoking, showing all kinds of gory results.  A classmate who smoked, on the way out, said "That's it, I quit.".  That lasted about five minutes, I guess, because it wasn't long after the movie that I saw him in the bathroom and behind the bushes outside, smoking as often as he could.
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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2015, 09:32:38 AM »
 There were plenty of bad drivers 50 years ago. Same percentage now but many more drivers means more bad drivers. I grew up in NJ near NYC. Drivers' were aggressive and were quick to blast the horn. Then I was out west in the Army and there was less horn blowing and less aggression but more bad drivers...They seemed to drive off the road for no good reason...
 Of course the only good driver is the person telling the story about bad drivers'   :wink: :grin:

Offline travelingbyguzzi

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2015, 09:44:32 AM »
You guys are forgetting 1 particular driving hazard. The Octogenarian! Cookie and I are currently in England-the Midlands-and our hostess is a tiny 75-year old lady. Her driving scares the hell out of us. Twice, I have had to slip into the drivers seat, which is on the WRONG side, and park the car for her. We hopefully will all become old at some point, but I hope we know when to hang up the keys!

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Offline screamday

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2015, 09:45:23 AM »
Not a bad idea.   But keep in mind that, due to the Internet and YouTube and the News, people see that gross, terrible sort of imagery now every week, where you never could 40 years ago unless in a Driver Ed class; whether it be Russian dash-cams or "Real Cop" shows or whatever (generally preceded with "This Video Contains Disturbing Images".)
Lannis

Unfortunately very true. Today's movie goers are subject to more violence and gore than those Driver Ed movies had.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2015, 10:09:16 AM »
Of course the only good driver is the person telling the story about bad drivers'   :wink: :grin:

In college, I took an elective course in driver education that was required for MD driving instructors.  One of the things we were told that stuck with me is that in general, the better a person thinks he is at driving, the worse he actually is.  This is because a person who thinks he's good at it is unaware of the countless hazards and pitfalls that exist, and the techniques he can use to improve his chances of avoiding them.  A person who is truly good at driving is constantly watching for and avoiding problems, and adjusting his driving to reduce risk.  He knows he could do more, if only he had the mental and physical energy.

Interestingly, riding a motorcycle forces you to drive at a higher level of awareness and safety, assuming you want to stay unhurt, and it probably carries over to automobile driving to some extent.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 10:10:24 AM by Triple Jim »
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2015, 10:16:58 AM »

Interestingly, riding a motorcycle forces you to drive at a higher level of awareness and safety, assuming you want to stay unhurt, and it probably carries over to automobile driving to some extent.

I'm sure it does.   I've been riding motorcycles longer than I've been driving.   At a conservative estimate, 900,000 miles about evenly split between bikes and cars over the last 45 years.

And although I fell once on an icy bridge on a bike, I have NEVER had any kind of crash, collision, going off the road, causing an crash, or anyone hitting me in a car.   No "accidents" of any kind since 1970 when I started driving.

So although there are very many things I am not very good at in this world, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.   I am a SUPERB driver by any measure, and I'm sure that there is a very small percentage of drivers that can truthfully claim the kind of record that I have on the road.

In this case, the "worst drivers think they are the best" does not hold true, and I know from personal experience that someone who cares about how he drives and who makes sure he is careful and alert can get through a long life without even denting anything .....

Lannis
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 10:21:15 AM »
You guys are forgetting 1 particular driving hazard. The Octogenarian! Cookie and I are currently in England-the Midlands-and our hostess is a tiny 75-year old lady. Her driving scares the hell out of us. Twice, I have had to slip into the drivers seat, which is on the WRONG side, and park the car for her. We hopefully will all become old at some point, but I hope we know when to hang up the keys!

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You don't want to characterize people TOO quickly!  We have Octogenarians on this list that can probably outride and outdrive both of us ... !

But we all know people who kept driving too long.   It's generally related to mental breakdowns and formerly surpressed paranoia ("I'm still as good as I ever was!   The kids are just trying to get me out of the way so they can have my stuff!    I'm not getting older!   I'll live forever, I don't need to make plans ....").    I had to deal with it with my Mom and several older relatives.

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Offline John A

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 10:21:36 AM »
It's going to be another lost freedom in the future as we transition to driverless cars, mostly because of the lack of responsibility for their own actions that drivers exhibit on an increasing level. People seem all too willing to trade freedom for a perceived increase in safety.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 10:23:24 AM »
It's going to be another lost freedom in the future as we transition to driverless cars, mostly because of the lack of responsibility for their own actions that drivers exhibit on an increasing level. People seem all too willing to trade freedom for a perceived increase in safety.

I still say it's not going to happen on any significant scale in our lifetimes.   Way too many variables.    If I'm wrong, I'll know and I'll say so.  But I'm not worried about being wrong on this ....

Lannis
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 10:28:25 AM »
In this case, the "worst drivers think they are the best" does not hold true, and I know from personal experience that someone who cares about how he drives and who makes sure he is careful and alert can get through a long life without even denting anything .....

Looking back at your record and acknowledging that you must have done a good job to achieve it isn't what was meant.  My teacher was referring to thinking you're doing a great job while you're driving.  When you're driving, I bet you're constantly aware of things you need to do to stay safe, and you're probably aware that you can always improve what you're doing to stay even safer.
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Offline wrbix

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Re: Safe Driving
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 10:46:35 AM »
I agree.   But people would have to be trained to know to follow even farther behind the car in front, and it seems that people can't STAND to do that ......

Lannis
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