RIP to my ride coach. Be careful out there. (NGC)

[homebrew]

My riding instructor, Steve Briggs, died yesterday after a minivan turned into his right of way this past Saturday.  He was a very safety-conscious rider, always preaching ATGATT, emphasizing the ability to come to short stops ("Don't schtaaaaaap. STOP!"), and teaching about looking ahead to find escape routes even if everything looks clear.  He was so talented a rider that not only did he teach a basic course, he co-owned and instructed at a school that taught advanced techniques to police officers and motorcycle rodeo participants.  None of that was enough when he met the wrong minivan owner at the wrong time.

RIP Stephen Briggs, Marine, motorcycle enthusiast, IT professional, entrepreneur and all-around great human being.  Everyone be careful out there, OK?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sorry.
As I have mentioned before, there is a fair amount of denial involved with riding a motorcycle..

[Scud]

Sorry for your loss. But thanks for sharing the story. The fact that this happened to such an accomplished rider and safety advocate is an important reminder to us all. That bus picture in another thread a couple days ago got my attention too.

Safety first, fun second, speed third. Those are my priorities. Any time I've gotten in trouble it's because I let something get out of order.

@Chuck - yeah, when we get on a bike we need to deny that it's going to happen, but be aware that it could. It's a fine mental balancing act. Think about safety all the time... but don't think about safety too much... find the "goldilocks zone."

[Kev m]

Sorry for you loss.

I read this and the irony hit me (instructor, ATGATT, etc.). It reminded me of Lawrence Grodsky getting taken out by a deer.

I have to say Chuck makes a valid point.

I will admit that part of me hears this and wonders if we don't waste a lot of time arguing over helmets, and armor (and when it comes to cars seat belts and airbags) etc.

I always wear some gear (helmet, jacket, boots, gloves etc.) and there's no denying statistically that if everything else is equal I'm sure you're better off with more gear or safety devices (seat belts, airbags).

But at the end of the day, when your time is up, it probably just doesn't matter.

I'm not saying I'm going to stop wearing a helmet...but maybe I'm going to judge other's choices a little less harshly based on that.

Maybe it's just not worth it to sweat it out in full leathers on a 90-100F degree day... maybe ride a little slower and wear some mesh... I dunno...

[not-fishing]

Maybe it's just not worth it to sweat it out in full leathers on a 90-100F degree day... maybe ride a little slower and wear some mesh... I dunno...

Get the mesh and sweat it out, I do.  Sure it's not going to help you when the "day that knows your name" comes but it will help you if you become one of the (not) walking-wounded.

[Lannis]

Sorry.
As I have mentioned before, there is a fair amount of denial involved with riding a motorcycle..

Yes, AND a fair amount of denial that it's our fellow human beings that are doing this to us.   

If they were shooting at us with six-guns, we'd know better how to deal with it.   But our neighbors are taking the combination of a 4000 pound kinetic energy weapon, controlled by either alcohol or a smart-phone, and (without thinking or caring) killing us with them.

35,000 times a year.   Nobody seems to care enough to do anything about it.    Life in 21st century America.

Lannis

[Chuck in Indiana]

Get the mesh and sweat it out, I do.  Sure it's not going to help you when the "day that knows your name" comes but it will help you if you become one of the (not) walking-wounded.

 :1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal. I understand that skin grafts are somewhat of a bother..

[Rough Edge racing]

Anything worth doing involves some risk , sorry for your loss , but happy the man experienced life   

  Dusty

 Risk makes it exciting...unlike cars/trucks most drive with all sorts of devices to make sure the driver need not be concerned with driving...
  Bad news and the irony of a man of experience getting put down in that manner...

[atavar]

In the case of catastrophic collisions like head-on or impact to a building or a tree no amount of ATTGATT is going to help you.
As much as we like to assign blame for accidents to the other stupid drivers that cause the accident ultimately it is your responsibility not to let them hurt you.  Pointing the blame finger after you are hurt or dead does not change the circumstances.
Ride safe, look ahead, always plan an escape route.  Have a plan at all times for what to do when the other driver does something stupid and tries to hurt you.  Don't let them, have an alternative ready. 

[kidsmoke]

Sobering Thread.

my condolences to you for losing your friend.

My only trip in an ambulance ever was as a cyclist in the same situation. I was doing everything "right", wearing a helmet, obeying the law, and the position of the sun and a young driver conspired to take me out. Bike, and my shoulder  were destroyed.

We take a chance every time we leave the house, fire up a power tool, step on a plane/train/bus.....

Before there were combustion engines people were dying in farm accidents.

Just gotta play it smart, make sure the people you love hear it from you, often, and keep moving.

[Lannis]

  Have a plan at all times for what to do when the other driver does something stupid and tries to hurt you.  Don't let them, have an alternative ready.

It's not always possible to escape.   There is ALWAYS a window within which a left-turner WILL get you, no matter how careful you are or how slow you are going.    The faster you are going, the bigger the "window of opportunity" for the cager to kill you will be, but it's always there.    You can lower the odds with speed and alertness, but if someone turns across you and there's no way out, and you hit them and come across the hood and hit the road, your gear will minimize the damage.

Lannis

[homebrew]

While I agree that most crashes are preventable , fatalities and serious injuries are down significantly from 20 years ago , and there are more vehicles on the road , and speeds have generally increased . Maybe someone does care about the dangers of operating a motor vehicle , but there will always be inherent risks that accompany driving or riding . Life is dangerous , no one gets out alive .

  Dusty

I agree with this and I'd be wary of further attempts to increase motorcycle safety -- any measures are not likely to involve putting cushions on cars or doing anything else to increase their expense.  It will come by mandating changes to our rides and our behavior, not theirs.

We will benefit from further generalized safety features which are coming.  Blind-spot detection technology is already on some cars and oncoming vehicle detectors are in test.  I saw a presentation from one of the companies making enabling technology for autonomous vehicles and he talked specifically about bicycles and motorcycles and how they are a different challenge from either cars or pedestrians or animals.

[Guzzistajohn]

Sorry for your loss. Reminders like this are good for our little community here. Thanks for posting, it'll make me be more careful, your friend would want it that way to be sure!

[Lannis]

While I agree that most crashes are preventable , fatalities and serious injuries are down significantly from 20 years ago , and there are more vehicles on the road , and speeds have generally increased . Maybe someone does care about the dangers of operating a motor vehicle , but there will always be inherent risks that accompany driving or riding . Life is dangerous , no one gets out alive .

  Dusty

Just because something has "inherent risks" and is "always dangerous" doesn't mean that we should stop trying to fix the obvious things to make it safer.   I'm not talking about more air bags or collision-avoidance radar - I'm talking about the things that would prevent so many motorcyclists from getting killed just by rank, stupid, unnecessary incompetence or impairment by automobile drivers.

Flying an airplane has "inherent risks", matter of fact they have a whole dimension that isn't even a danger for a motorcyclist.   But most of the risks have been taken out by training and by the attitude of the aviators.   

There's still SO many things that could be done to lower the fatal collision rate by bikes that don't require anything but good common sense, and by a caring attitude on the part of car drivers.   Right now, too many of them still "don't care".    The butcher's bill is just "normal wastage".     We're not going to make that go away just by saying "It's all our fault".

Lannis

[breva750]

cost benefit ratios
probability and statistics
quality of life at "old" age
why take a chance?

[Groover]

Through you by posting here, your friend taught us all a riding lesson until the very end. I'm sure he (or anyone) would've never seen it that way while alive, but I think that if his life/death can teach a few more of us out there to really watch out and expect the unexpected, maybe it would help ease the pain of his passing for his family and friends a little.

Sad news. Too much of it lately...

[Rough Edge racing]

Flying an airplane has "inherent risks", matter of fact they have a whole dimension that isn't even a danger for a motorcyclist.   But most of the risks have been taken out by training and by the attitude of the aviators. 

         And pretty intense gov't regulations...

 My opinion is nothing can be done to make drivers more aware of bikes. Many drivers and some riders don't pay attention . And for the rest of us it's circumstance that we met up with the inattentive driver who turns in front or rams from behind.

[atavar]

If all bike riders open carried .44 magnum pistols on their belts drivers would notice them more.  When I rode in Arizona I always rode with a pistol and only about 2" of the holster stuck out under my jacket but I swear the drivers saw me from far away. 

[elvisboy77]

We are all going to die.  There are worse ways, numerous ones, than being on a motorcycle and enjoying the ride.

Hell of a lot better than wasting away in a bed somewhere.

If you don't want to die in a motorcycle crash, the only sure way to accomplish that is to never ride a motorcycle. 

I get enough pleasure out of it (especially on a Guzzi!) to take that risk.

[breva750]

Death is unlikely.... paralyzed or critically injured for the "rest of one's life"...

I have seen more of this than I care to as a medical professional....

[lucian]

I am sorry for the loss of your friend, it sounds like he was  a giving person to share his time and riding knowledge to help keep others safe. I have always been nervous when I come across a left turner and don't know for sure when he or she is going to go for it. The worst scenario seems to be when the mc is not in front but concealed behind one or two cars in  a  row. Never fails they will wait for the cars to pass and the go not expecting to find a bike in the group.  I always drop back if I can in this situation to open up a gap so the turner can get a visual.                                 

[Rough Edge racing]

If all bike riders open carried .44 magnum pistols on their belts drivers would notice them more.  When I rode in Arizona I always rode with a pistol and only about 2" of the holster stuck out under my jacket but I swear the drivers saw me from far away.

 The pistol won't stop cars from turning left in front of you.... Isn't that the most common accident other than single bike accidents?

[lucydad]

HomeB,

Prayers for your friend's family.  Not much to add.  Personally I see my FIL right now sitting across from me.  He is 77, has medium stage Alzheimer's and his life is mostly grim, sad, lonely and hopeless.  I don't want to reach his stage. 

Personally I would rather die like your friend--fast and while doing something I love, rather than fade out.  Both my 94 year old mother, and my older brother are in very low quality of life, dismal situations. 

Carpe Diem.

Make it Count.

15 work days left.

Hawaii before that.

[Lannis]

Personally I would rather die like your friend--fast and while doing something I love, rather than fade out. 

Much easier said than done.

[Lcarlson]

We are all going to die.  There are worse ways, numerous ones, than being on a motorcycle and enjoying the ride.

Hell of a lot better than wasting away in a bed somewhere.

If you don't want to die in a motorcycle crash, the only sure way to accomplish that is to never ride a motorcycle. 

I get enough pleasure out of it (especially on a Guzzi!) to take that risk.



Well said -- we're all terminal, but the risk we knowingly take when we ride is what makes us different from all the rest of the sheeple. No disrespect to them, but we're not the same.

[Dave Bell]

:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal. I understand that skin grafts are somewhat of a bother..

One time in Junction I rode with a girl who put on full atgatt to ride across the street to the cafe.  I asked her about it.  She had bought a bike that was not tuned properly and would only go about 45 mph.  She carefully learned carburetors and got it all tuned up.  She finished the job and went out and got the bike up to about 70, at which time she experienced a full tilt knee slapping wallow, and went down.   At the time she had on flip flops, a very tiny tube top, and some Daisy Dukes.  At that point in the conversation, she showed me some of her scars, especially on her belly, chest, and thighs.  It was very impressive.  Every time I take a little test spin with less than ATGATT, I think about those scars.  If I get hit by and vaporized by an 18 wheeler, that'll be ok.  But all that skin bullshit is to be avoided. 

I'm very sorry about your friend. 

[redrider90]

If all bike riders open carried .44 magnum pistols on their belts drivers would notice them more.  When I rode in Arizona I always rode with a pistol and only about 2" of the holster stuck out under my jacket but I swear the drivers saw me from far away.

The reason this man died is  the cage driver did not see him. If he didn't see the bike he surely would not have seen a 44 poking out of a holster from 100 feet away. My guess is the cyclist could have been carrying an assault rifle and he still would have been unseen and the cage still pulls into his right of way.
After buying a big red shinny Mille in 1991 I noticed quite a difference in how fewer people pulled out in front of me compare to my old 750 Ducati. I can only consider that the big red Mille with all its shinny chrome (as well as the big Bosch head light I installed) just makes me more visible. But I still have people pulling in front of me just far fewer all these years driving a red bike.
Really 44 magnums do not stop cage drivers from pulling into your right of way. Bad drivers pull into your right of way.

[canuck750]

:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal. I understand that skin grafts are somewhat of a bother..

About three weeks ago my younger son skidded to a low side on loose gravel at about 20 mph, he was wearing a helmet, gloves, boots but just a hoody and jeans. The crash bars and highway peg on a KLR650 took the brunt of the skid but his right arm and shin were badly skinned, his left arm skinned but not too bad. The road rash and gravel in his arm and leg looked horrible. My wife is a nurse and took care of the wounds, but he has deep scars. I no longer have to preach the ATGATT to him, sadly he had to learn the painful way. I see so many riders on sport bike with muscle shirts and no gloves, Russian Roulette in my opinion.

With respect to the poor fellow killed by an inattentive driver, well he probably didn't have a chance, bloody shame that some idiot took a life so senselessly

[Lannis]

The reason this man died is  the cage driver did not see him.

.......... Bad drivers pull into your right of way.

Well, the first part may or may not be true.    Sometimes I think drivers "see" bikes, but they pull out anyway, figuring that the thing ahead is something small and will just "bounce off" or will get out of the way or, maybe, just "screw him".

The second part is certainly true.

Lannis

[Yukonica]

Terribly sorry for the loss of yet another among us. Noting can stop the ignorant and inattentive from shamming their way into accessing a driver's license. The little old lady in her Mercedes SUV that killed my friend this very summer is probably going to enjoy dim sum on Sunday. She should be in jail. And yes, I am bitter. Jay was/is a hero. 700 people who could attend his funeral thought so too. It was closed to many more because of the capacity of the building.
I have always held the belief that before one qualifies for four wheels and a safety cage you should have to spend 2 years riding a motorcycle. If it is too cold for you; take a bus and train over 5 summers.  And let's match the penalty to the damage caused. A slap and a few thousand dollars in insurance hikes is nothing to the loss of that man in my world.
Sorry for the rant.