RIP to my ride coach. Be careful out there. (NGC)

[not-fishing]

:1: We slid about 50-60 feet on chip and seal with mesh gear. Trashed it, but we ended up without a scratch. I've seen what happens from a slide on chip and seal.

Good Lord, chip seal!

The Engineers that specify that stuff out to be drug 50 feet on it to understand the hazard that they're creating.

Funny how they wouldn't spec out a system on a road that would have the same effect on a car driver.

Thanks for letting me know the outcome though I do believe you were beat up a lot - from the chip.

[johnr]

(Actually I like chip seal. It grips well in the wet)

It's always sad to hear of something like this event, yet the road toll can never be zero.

You know, there was a time when I used to ride up and down between Invercargill (home) and Auckland (where I was living at the time). It's about 1000 miles each way on a road I had traveled often. In the more boring parts I would often entertain myself by playing What If. What if this or that thing happens now.  How to react? Where to go? What to do?

It was probably a valuable exercise, but there were many potential road events to which there simply was no answer.  Sometimes I would scare myself so badly I had to stop for a smoke.

[Nic in Western NYS]

Very sorry for your loss. I hope there was not much suffering.  A toast to him, he must have saved a lot of suffering on the part of his students.

[Kev m]

I am sorry for the loss of your friend, it sounds like he was  a giving person to share his time and riding knowledge to help keep others safe. I have always been nervous when I come across a left turner and don't know for sure when he or she is going to go for it. The worst scenario seems to be when the mc is not in front but concealed behind one or two cars in  a  row. Never fails they will wait for the cars to pass and the go not expecting to find a bike in the group. I always drop back if I can in this situation to open up a gap so the turner can get a visual.                                 

That plus vary your lane position for visibility... 

[sib]

....Sometimes I think drivers "see" bikes, but they pull out anyway, figuring that the thing ahead is something small and will just "bounce off" or will get out of the way or, maybe, just "screw him".

I do believe this is true.  I think there's an unconscious "I'm bigger than you" bias that comes into play.  I've felt it in myself.  Especially before I started riding motorcycles.  I also think that good truck drivers fight against this reflex.

[moltoguzzi]

American drivers are the worse of the western world by far, just look at the stats. This isn't because as a people we are deficient but because the training required for a license is a fking joke! It's a total failure! Combine this we the "Time is money" mentality and we have the formula for the disaster we live in.
I had a mini van make a left in front of me after originally stopping and waiting, i avoided the disaster by being good on the brakes and lucky enough to have on empty turning lane. After chasing her down and demanding an answer, she stated that she got confused because so much was her mind but was really sorry.

[twowheeladdict]

Sorry for your loss. 

For me it is also about risk management as well as skill and situational awareness.

I altered my work schedule to arrive and leave at the lowest traffic times of the day.

I avoid shopping districts, tourist areas, etc. as much as possible and try and find alternate routes and less travelled roads as much as possible.



A local lady was on a work trip in Maryland this past week and was killed along with her passenger when hit by a truck.  They were in a rental car.  So, it can happen to anyone, anytime.

[Kentktk]

Sad news anytime this happens.

[rocker59]

Here's the deal fellas , the same folks who will turn left on an approaching motorbike will do the same thing to an oncoming semi truck . Ask any truck driver how many close calls they have in a weeks time  Hell , ask a railroad engineer how many times a vehicle , including large trucks , have pulled across in front of them , and that's with horns blowing and lights flashing .

  Dusty

Difference only being that the bike loses every time.

[atavar]

I stand by my earlier admonition.. "Don't *let* them hurt you". 

If you think you cannot prevent other drivers from hurting you then you should not be driving.  If you expect the other drivers to be reasonable and not do stupid crap to hurt you then you are bound for disappointment.

Sorry if that is harsh, but it is the way it is.  Suck it up, drive safely, take responsibility, drive responsibly, drive defensively. 

Nobody has more to do with your safety and happiness than you do. 

[blackcat]

Sorry this happened to your friend. I almost got taken out by the left hand turner and tried to get around him but he decided to stop instead of keep going and I nailed his rear quarter panel, flew over the car and woke up in the oncoming lane. He "didn't see me" but then he did see me which was the problem.

"A total of 4,381 motorcyclists died in crashes in 2013."

"Our homes should be private sanctuaries of comfort, security and relaxation. But every year, more than 18,000 individuals in the United States die from home-related accidents."

Not to discount the dangers of riding but getting that bulb,etc. out of the top cabinet with a questionable ladder can kill you too.

[kirby1923]

On my recent visit to Arkansas I did a bit of city riding without gear and enjoyed it allot.

I believe I went a little slower and was extra careful knowing the consequences' of a crash but its fun to have the option.

mike

[Chuck in Indiana]

I stand by my earlier admonition.. "Don't *let* them hurt you". 

If you think you cannot prevent other drivers from hurting you then you should not be driving.  If you expect the other drivers to be reasonable and not do stupid crap to hurt you then you are bound for disappointment.

Sorry if that is harsh, but it is the way it is.  Suck it up, drive safely, take responsibility, drive responsibly, drive defensively. 

Nobody has more to do with your safety and happiness than you do.

Agreed...
comma BUT
There are times on many rides where you would have no place to go if somebody does something stupid. Maybe for just a fraction of a second.. but there ARE times where the best rider in the world couldn't save the situation. If you don't believe that.. as I first mentioned .. denial is strong with you. 

[Lannis]

Agreed...
comma BUT
There are times on many rides where you would have no place to go if somebody does something stupid. Maybe for just a fraction of a second.. but there ARE times where the best rider in the world couldn't save the situation. If you don't believe that.. as I first mentioned .. denial is strong with you. 

:1: to that.

[atavar]

The idea is to look ahead and identify those windows so they don't catch you by surprise.  Do everything you can to absolutely minimize the window, have a plan of what you are going to do if tshtf.. 

One small example is pulling up behind someone at a stop light.  Make sure you leave enough space in front of you so that you can move and not be there if the guy behind you decides not to stop.  Make sure you have some free space to ride in to on one side or the other, that you are in gear with the clutch pulled in for quick action and be ready to go in an instant if necessary, and that you do mirror checks frequently to look at the guy behind you and the guy behind him.. 

Without doing that if at a stop light someone rear-ends the guy behind you you are roadkill, the accident is absolutely not your fault but you are still roadkill.    If you did not have an emergency escape plan ready that *was* your fault because there was an action you could have taken to avoid being injured but you were not prepared to take it. 

In the left hand in front of you scenario the same thing applies, constantly be aware and alert, have a plan in place for what you are going to do if the stupid driver decides to bolt at the last minute, have an escape route planned in advance.  At some point the plan may be how to minimize damage in a collision, but you should have that plan in your head.

This all sounds like a lot of things going on in your head, and it is, but with practice it gets pretty automatic.

I know, I am a cynic but it all boils down to the fact that *you* are the one that is responsible to ensure that you and your passengers are safe and comfortable.  Nobody else - just you.

[Arizona Wayne]

Yesterday I could have taken out some women inexperienced bike riders with my car pulling a Guzzi on a trailer as I approached them @ 65 mph on Rte. 66.   There was about 20? riders who were leaving a restaurant all together out in the middle of nowhere.  They seemed to be more concerned with their positioning amongst each other than worrying about any vehicles coming down on them at the same time.  They also seemed to be communicating by radio(leader with straggler?).  I hit the brakes and had to change lanes to avoid 3 of them.  I saw NONE of them looking my way to see if I was bearing down on them !  They were all just following each other like sheep.  I was PISSED to see such idiocy !!!  and let them know with hand jesters.(not middle finger)  1 of them flipped me the finger.    NEVER flip a person the finger when you're on a bike and he's in a car.    Lucky for him he was not alone or........   Anyway, I'm sure if you got their version of the incident I would have been the A-hole who tried to take them out. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks for letting me know the outcome though I do believe you were beat up a lot - from the chip.

Not really. The only injury was to one knuckle where the chip/seal burned through the Aerostitch Elkskin Ropers. I thought they were pretty protective gloves.. but not any more. I've worn nothing but race gloves with hard knuckle protection since. The mesh gear was trashed, as I mentioned, but the armor in the jacket and pants stayed in place. The Ropers have been relegated to lawn mower duty. 

[Kev m]

American drivers are the worse of the western world by far, just look at the stats. This isn't because as a people we are deficient but because the training required for a license is a fking joke! It's a total failure! Combine this we the "Time is money" mentality and we have the formula for the disaster we live in.

I don't know what the state licensing requirements are by you, but around here they've changed DRAMATICALLY since I was a kid.

No permit until 16 and having completed a driver's training course.
A junior license at 17, with sundown clause and a bunch of other conditions, like I think you need to display a special sticker badge on the car when it's a student driver.

I know in PA they have to log a large amount of hours with their parents, a certain number of hours in the rain.

There might be restrictions on passengers with the junior license etc.

[atavar]

liense requirements have changed drastically here to, also 16 *after* drivers ed or wait till you are 18.  Back in the day I got my first full unrestricted license - not permit - at 13 so I could drive farm trucks. (yes, I am that old)
Meeting modern 13 year olds I am very glad they don't do that any more. 

[atavar]

I apologize to the O.P. for the thread drift.  Any time we lose a rider from our community it is a tragedy no matter the circumstances.  We should move the safety and license discussions to another thread.  We can title it "Atavar the Curmudgeon" if you want..   

[Chuck in Indiana]

liense requirements have changed drastically here to, also 16 *after* drivers ed or wait till you are 18.  Back in the day I got my first full unrestricted license - not permit - at 13 so I could drive farm trucks. (yes, I am that old)
Meeting modern 13 year olds I am very glad they don't do that any more.

Well, Curmrdgeon.. 13 year old kids aren't the same as they used to be. Kids used to be expected to be responsible, and most were. Not so much any more..
Yeah, I was driving corn to the elevator, etc. when I was just a pup.

[homebrew]

I apologize to the O.P. for the thread drift.  Any time we lose a rider from our community it is a tragedy no matter the circumstances.  We should move the safety and license discussions to another thread.  We can title it "Atavar the Curmudgeon" if you want..   

Steve was an old cuss and would have quite enjoyed a "kids today" discussion. 

[Rough Edge racing]

Well, Curmrdgeon.. 13 year old kids aren't the same as they used to be. Kids used to be expected to be responsible, and most were. Not so much any more..
Yeah, I was driving corn to the elevator, etc. when I was just a pup.

 I got my license in 1964 at the age of 17 in NJ. Like most of my friends I was a manic on bald skidmore bias ply tires as we tore up the streets in  V8 56 Chevy's and Ford's . Driving so hard on back roads the brakes would fade away to nothing .Constantly drag racing on the streets and blowing up transmissions. We all smashed up a car at some point, most lived, a few not. And the girls in the back seat or in the bathroom or where ever  ....When I got drafted into the army I drove the equipment like I stole it. Then came the late 60's and serious street racing... Then street drag racing bikes .....It was exciting crazy times and somehow most lived through it...Then came responsibility.....

[Lannis]

I got my license in 1964 at the age of 17 in NJ. Like most of my friends I was a manic on bald skidmore bias ply tires as we tore up the streets in  V8 56 Chevy's and Ford's . Driving so hard on back roads the brakes would fade away to nothing .Constantly drag racing on the streets and blowing up transmissions. We all smashed up a car at some point, most lived, a few not. And the girls in the back seat or in the bathroom or where ever  ....When I got drafted into the army I drove the equipment like I stole it. Then came the late 60's and serious street racing... Then street drag racing bikes .....It was exciting crazy times and somehow most lived through it...Then came responsibility.....

A little different for me.   Had to work my teenage arse off for enough money to buy a motorcycle; if I wrecked it, I was walking, there was no money to replace anything I pranged.   

Didn't smash up anything - watched some of my friends die painfully and uselessly as they "drove crazy".    Always enjoyed the ride, seeing the country, being free when I was on the road.    Just one girl was all I needed and still got her 40 years later .....

People get their "excitement" in different ways!

Lannis

[Robert]

From reading The Hurt Report (Google it) in Motorcyclist Magazine many years ago, one thing I recall was that folks who 'don't see' motorcycles, don't ride one or have relatives that ride one.

A motorcycle doesn't 'register' in their environment.

Obit for author, Harry H Hurt:
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/article/harry-hurt-author-hurt-report-dies-heart-attack

Hurt was a lifelong motorcyclist. Born in 1927, he grew up and began riding as a kid in west Texas. His first motorcycle was a worn-out Cushman scooter that he brought back to life. Hurt graduated from Texas A&M University in 1950, and became a Navy pilot during the Korean War. After the war, Hurt loaded up his 1947 Harley-Davidson 61 and headed west for California. He completed a master's degree in aeronautical engineering at the University of Southern California (USC), and soon after he joined the faculty at USC.

[SmithSwede]

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend. 

Do we know any specifics about this accident, other than left turn across his path?  We are speculating about the possible existence, or non-existence, of escape windows, road conditions, his speed, etc.  Do we know the pertinent facts?

I certainly didn't know the man, but I suspect that since he was so keen about AGATT, riding instruction, etc. he would understand that serious riders would want to know what happened to catch him out, in hopes that others might learn from his tragedy.

[homebrew]

Do we know any specifics about this accident, other than left turn across his path?  We are speculating about the possible existence, or non-existence, of escape windows, road conditions, his speed, etc.  Do we know the pertinent facts?

Yeah, but rather than start a "he coulda this, no he couldn't have, what about that" fight I'll simply say that I've been on the road where the minivan pulled out and caused the crash many times.  It's a four-lane highway (two on each side), 45 MPH limit with good visibility on the highway itself.  But this was a private driveway, wooded to the road on both sides.  It's quite hidden from the road and the road is quite hidden from it.   Steve would have been going the speed limit in any event but this was very close to a pretty high-security place -- everyone goes the speed limit because going 46 gets you a ticket. 

[twowheeladdict]

Yesterday I could have taken out some women inexperienced bike riders with my car pulling a Guzzi on a trailer as I approached them @ 65 mph on Rte. 66.   There was about 20? riders who were leaving a restaurant all together out in the middle of nowhere.  They seemed to be more concerned with their positioning amongst each other than worrying about any vehicles coming down on them at the same time.  They also seemed to be communicating by radio(leader with straggler?).  I hit the brakes and had to change lanes to avoid 3 of them.  I saw NONE of them looking my way to see if I was bearing down on them !  They were all just following each other like sheep.  I was PISSED to see such idiocy !!!  and let them know with hand jesters.(not middle finger)  1 of them flipped me the finger.    NEVER flip a person the finger when you're on a bike and he's in a car.    Lucky for him he was not alone or........   Anyway, I'm sure if you got their version of the incident I would have been the A-hole who tried to take them out. 

Sounds like you saw them all doing this and the front riders had time to safely pull out, AND thought there was enough time for everyone to pull out.

Why didn't you slow down, and/or change lanes sooner?  Sounds like you were another Cager at that moment instead of a rider.

[twowheeladdict]

A little different for me.   Had to work my teenage arse off for enough money to buy a motorcycle; if I wrecked it, I was walking, there was no money to replace anything I pranged.   

Didn't smash up anything - watched some of my friends die painfully and uselessly as they "drove crazy".    Always enjoyed the ride, seeing the country, being free when I was on the road.    Just one girl was all I needed and still got her 40 years later .....

People get their "excitement" in different ways!

Lannis

I wish there was a LIKE feature on this forum.  Thank you for that post Lannis.  Glad to see there are other motorcycle riders as opposed to Bikers, Racers, and other Hooligans giving motorcyclists a bad name and reputation.

[Lannis]

I wish there was a LIKE feature on this forum.  Thank you for that post Lannis.  Glad to see there are other motorcycle riders as opposed to Bikers, Racers, and other Hooligans giving motorcyclists a bad name and reputation.

I don't think we want to get into that "Like" stuff; we just got rid of the Unfriend I mean "ignore" feature.   Go too far and before you know it, it's the Guzzi version of TwitterFace or something ..... 

Just trying to give a personal-experience counterpoint to the idea that, in order to have a "fun" and "fulfilling" life, you have to have a past filled with wrecks, speeding tickets, drugs, sex in public toilets, and cleaning out both ditches driving drunk all the time ... I've had an enormous amount of fun, and looking back (and forward) on a fulfilling life, without all that ....

Come to think of it, I probably just described a perfect night out for Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy!

Lannis