Safety from Ragers ?

[atavar]

Sorry, he's not saying to not be alert for them.  He is saying that sometimes, no matter how careful you are, you can get hit.  You can see the deer, slow down to a stop, and the darn buck will ram you anyway.  Happened to my wife driving through a residential area.

She saw the buck on the side of the road about 50yds ahead.  As she approached where he was (about 30ft off the side of the road) she slowed to about 10mph.  When the buck charged she stopped the car before he hit.  The passenger door was dented and window broken out.

Tell me please how she could have avoided that?  Maybe by not going to the store that day.  And, no not early morning or evening.  It was around 1pm in the afternoon.

Maybe instead of stopping she could have accelerated and got out of his way?  Or turned instead of insisting on driving right by the deer? Or made some noise? 

So what is your solution?  Stop riding?  Tuck your head and hope for the best?  Please let's do better than that..

[biking sailor]

The ones I can see don't scare me as much as the ones I don't see unitl they are bolting out of the trees or jumping the guard rail from a creek bed.

I have to admit riding right after my crash in the same circumstances had me puckered up, and it hasn't gone away much.  As I contemplate commuting to work this fall, I am a bit more concerned.  Been riding on the street for over 40 years and the first 39 were deer strike free.  I figure it's a time and chance sort of thing with the ones you can't see till they hit you.

Don't like rubber rooms at all.   

[atavar]

The ones I can see don't scare me as much as the ones I don't see unitl they are bolting out of the trees or jumping the guard rail from a creek bed.

I have to admit riding right after my crash in the same circumstances had me puckered up, and it hasn't gone away much.  As I contemplate commuting to work this fall, I am a bit more concerned.  Been riding on the street for over 40 years and the first 39 were deer strike free.  I figure it's a time and chance sort of thing with the ones you can't see till they hit you.

Don't like rubber rooms at all.   

I agree about the rubber rooms.  I would hate to live in a nerf world.
This is part of what I am saying.  Learning where the most likely places for deer to bolt from so that you can recognize them and be extra vigilant in those areas is a big part of not hurting deer.   

[atavar]

Just because the thread drift has gone so far..  here is a good article that gives you some clues for when you *can* see the deer..
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/8-messages-deer-send-hunters-with-their-tails

[Lannis]

Maybe instead of stopping she could have accelerated and got out of his way?  Or turned instead of insisting on driving right by the deer? Or made some noise? 

So what is your solution?  Stop riding?  Tuck your head and hope for the best?  Please let's do better than that..

The solution is for YOU to "man up" and realize that you can very well DIE riding a motorcycle and there might not be anything you can do about it.   

The solution is not to stop riding.   The solution is not to "encourage people not to ride" because they're "scared".

You're the one that's scared.  You don't want to admit that a mindless 150 pound hurtling bit of grazing protein can take Atavar from this world to eternity.   

The venison psychobabble about knowing local deer habits and watching their tails so you can have a better chance to avoid them is just that, babble.    People that have hit them (and you can watch plenty of GoPro videos on YouTube) will tell you that they had anywhere from 0 seconds (never saw it, it came from behind) or a fraction of a second (first saw it when the forequarters were 3 feet from their fender) reaction time; talking about watching their "tails" or some similar manifestation of deer psychology is simply the justification of someone who doesn't want to face his own mortality to keep riding, without "manning up" and facing reality.

So face it.   You could die on a bike due to a deer, and there's NOTHING you can do to reduce that probability to zero, no matter how you snap your suspenders and say "Yup, I've read up on the Baldwin County deer, I could'a stayed outa HIS way, too bad you didn't ..."

Lannis   

[atavar]

I call BS on every one of your statements.  I am not afraid, I am handling my environment and the risks that are in it.  You are the one that is hiding his head in the sand because you don't think you are capable of educating yourself to make you and your passengers safer.  The are many many things you can do to minimize the risks that are there when you ride.  if you do not do what you can to ride safer then you are the ones that are avoiding reality and leaving your futures to fate. 

The reality is this, in 40 years of riding i have never hit a deer.  How is your philosophy working for you?  Whose philosophy is actually working here?  Mine or all the people who have hit deer and say there is nothing they can do about it?

[rodekyll]

Two words for you:  Deer whistles.

EVERYBODY KNOWS deer whistles are scientifically proven to whistle deer.  It's on the internet, even.  But how many wadded up bikes do you see sporting both deer whistles and deer hair?  Smart people get all educated to death believing deer whistles create this magic force field through which no deer may penetrate.  But nobody explains to the deer how it's supposed to behave when whistled at.

My point being that I don't think it helps to 'educate' oneself on a population of deer unless you and the deer sit down and agree to play by the rules you 'learned.' 

I think all that happens when a guy convinces himself he's too educated to get into trouble is that he makes bad assumptions and becomes complacent at a level only Darwin can sort out.  If on the other hand a guy's assumption is simply that everything out can potentially kill him, he's a more cautious and defensive rider.

[Lcarlson]

Time for a little fatalism,folks: it's not a bad idea to have some understanding of deer behavior, hours when they're most active, rutting season, etc., but they're ultimately unpredictable and that's just the way it is. It helps if you don't ride at night (I seldom do, as I like an adult beverage or two around sundown), but deer are ultimately just one of the hazards we've all accepted as riders. Life is full of all sorts of risks, but we've made the decision that riding is well worth whatever incremental risk addition that entails. None of us gets out alive -- I'll try to enjoy it while it lasts.

[Lannis]

Time for a little fatalism,folks: it's not a bad idea to have some understanding of deer behavior, hours when they're most active, rutting season, etc., but they're ultimately unpredictable and that's just the way it is. It helps if you don't ride at night (I seldom do, as I like an adult beverage or two around sundown), but deer are ultimately just one of the hazards we've all accepted as riders. Life is full of all sorts of risks, but we've made the decision that riding is well worth whatever incremental risk addition that entails. None of us gets out alive -- I'll try to enjoy it while it lasts.

Yep.    :1: to that!

Lannis

[Jim Rich]

I used to ride with a guy who was convinced that the Kawasaki Concours (the old one), made noise that attracted deer.  He had killed 2 of them in the Texas Hill Country and totaled 2 bikes.  I hit one on my Concours in Lake City CO.  Just a fender bender, the deer and the bike were OK but the pucker factor was off the charts.  Had deer fur stuck between some plastic pieces on the bike.  This happened to me at night.  I don't ride at night in deer country any more if possible.

[Lannis]

 


 Obviously Lannis like Mr Carlson better than he likes me . 

  Dusty

All right, then,  :1: to the TWO posts above mine .... 

You've got to get used to saying something on WG and no one responds, and then someone else says the same thing later as you did and gets a response like "Yeah, now that's what I'm talking 'bout!".   It's the price paid for high post frequency - people can't read them all or start skipping over them.    I've only got half your post rate and it happens ....

Lannis

[HDGoose]

That's your NRA working to preserve your 2nd amendment rights.   

Or a result of lack of enforcement of current laws. We now have arrived a the point in the USA where guilt is assumed and innocence cost money.

[Lannis]

Or a result of lack of enforcement of current laws. We now have arrived a the point in the USA where guilt is assumed and innocence cost money.

They're hard to count, but smart guys have estimated that there are 30,000 gun laws on the books today.   How in the world are they going to enforce all of them?   

Generally, people who shoot other people have already violated about 10 gun laws before they pull the trigger.

So it's VERY obvious to the most reasonable observer that what we need is MORE gun laws.   "Reasonable" ones, mind.    That way there will be a few more laws that no one will enforce.  But think how much better we'll FEEL!

Lannis

[segesta]

Honestly, I'm more concerned about being taken out by deer, other motorists and the numerous truck re-treads scattered on the roadways. One of those giant rubber clam shell almost killed me on I-80 not too long ago.

Me! Yesterday! Interstate 55 somewhere in central Illinois.

[atavar]

yeah, those things worry me too.  Not too long ago in heavy freeway traffic one appeared bouncing out from under the SUV in front of me.  I guess he couldn't avoid it..  there were a couple of tense moments and some quick maneuvers that probably left a permanent pucker mark in my seat.  Luckily I was able to squeeze between it and the car in the lane beside me. 
It sure teaches a guy to pay attention and keep a grip on the bars at all times.

[atavar]

Yeah , but you write 10 times as many words  Really , I was just amazed that you agreed with the idea of risk acceptance 

  Dusty

Risk acceptance is a reality we must all come to grips with.  Having said that it is always good to educate yourself as much as possible as to the nature of the risks and the means to ameliorate them as much as possible.  We should not just shrug our shoulders and wait for the bullet with our name on it.

[HDGoose]

yeah, those things worry me too.  Not too long ago in heavy freeway traffic one appeared bouncing out from under the SUV in front of me.  I guess he couldn't avoid it..  there were a couple of tense moments and some quick maneuvers that probably left a permanent pucker mark in my seat.  Luckily I was able to squeeze between it and the car in the lane beside me. 
It sure teaches a guy to pay attention and keep a grip on the bars at all times.

I have had good results watching what the vehicle, or two, in front of me is dealing with and that helps me prepare and maneuver quicker.

[Lannis]

Yeah , but you write 10 times as many words  Really , I was just amazed that you agreed with the idea of risk acceptance 

  Dusty

If I didn't believe in risk acceptance, I wouldn't go out on the road unless I was in a Volvo with 8 airbags and a roll cage ....

In 1986, it all got to me at once when my youngest boy was 1 year old and I considered what would happen if I got taken out by one of the unavoidable things that can kill you on a bike that wouldn't even hurt you in a car, and I pulled my Harley Davidson off the road into a body shop, traded it for a huge GMC Jimmy V8, and didn't ride for 10 years.

You can get skillful as you can, and armor up as much as possible, and ride at a reasonable speed with your eyeballs and head on swivels, and have a defensive attitude, but some things can still get you despite all that:

In order of likelihood in this part of the country and on the roads I ride:

1) A deer leaping onto you from the brush on the side of the road.

2) A retread blowing off the truck you are passing.

3) A person waiting to make a turn in front of you suddenly punching the gas right in that window where you can't avoid it.

4) A patch of antifreeze or diesel recently spilled on the road.

5) Something falling off a truck in front of you (like an aluminum ladder)

6) A blown front tire throwing you off a bridge, into a wire "guardrail" or under a truck.

Those are real, and the sharpest, faster, carefullest rider will be killed by them if they happen at the wrong time and place, whereas if you are in a car, it's a mere inconvenience.

So of course we take those risks every day.    Only someone in deep denial of their mortality will fool themselves into thinking that they won't die if the wrong thing happens, and their death will be because they chose a motorcycle instead of a car in which to travel.

I got over it and got back on bikes and hope to live happily ever after .....

Lannis

[atavar]

Lannis,
Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything you said.  I just go on to say that for all of those things there are things you can do to at least reduce the risk. 
Even taking a shower or eating a hamburger includes some level of risk, and we do have to accept some risk or just not live.  At the same time we should do what we can to be safe.

[biking sailor]

yeah, those things worry me too.  Not too long ago in heavy freeway traffic one appeared bouncing out from under the SUV in front of me.  I guess he couldn't avoid it..  there were a couple of tense moments and some quick maneuvers that probably left a permanent pucker mark in my seat.  Luckily I was able to squeeze between it and the car in the lane beside me. 
It sure teaches a guy to pay attention and keep a grip on the bars at all times.

And to not tailgate!   

[ohiorider]

What amazes me about the critters is how they can run WOT thru a forest of dense trees without hitting one, but can't avoid running into something as large as a car.  Perhaps it's an evolutionary thing ...... they have learned to deal with trees over the past several thousand years;  cars are a relatively new thing to them.  Maybe in time ...........

[atavar]

Trees don't move..  ;)
In many years of hunting I have seen critters run in to trees, fall off cliffs, trip over rocks, step in holes..  they aren't as agile as you think.  Watch a deer try to walk across a frozen river some time, it's hilarious..

[Gliderjohn]

I think what throws them off is that a vehicle is moving, trees are not. Then again maybe we don't see the ones that were killed when they ran into a tree.
Stuff happens. I found a dead sparrow that was dead and impailed in the breast by a hedge tree thorn.
GliderJohn

[oldbike54]

I think what throws them off is that a vehicle is moving, trees are not. Then again maybe we don't see the ones that were killed when they ran into a tree.
Stuff happens. I found a dead sparrow that was dead and impailed in the breast by a hedge tree thorn.
GliderJohn

 Yeah , saw a squirrel bonk into a tree limb , kinda knocked him silly for a moment , then he looked around to see if there were any witnesses . The other squirrels were saying things like , " Yep , ol Bob there , he might be gettin in the hooch again" 

  Dusty

[Peter from Sch'dy]

Trees don't move..  ;)
In many years of hunting I have seen critters run in to trees, fall off cliffs, trip over rocks, step in holes..  they aren't as agile as you think.  Watch a deer try to walk across a frozen river some time, it's hilarious..

This reminded me of my beloved deceased Great Dane, Cheese(Danish). He was very fast and loved being chased, perhaps because he knew how fast he was. He seemed to revel in it. No one could catch him in his prime. I once measured 12ft between footfalls after he ran past in the snow. Anyway, he might have been fast in a straight line but once up to speed he could not change direction well. In fact, one of his favorite things in the world (besides cat poop) was to run right at you and pass so close you could feel the wind. I quickly learned to stand perfectly still and not, under any circumstances, move in anticipation of hisdecision of which side of me he would pass. He was a small Dane at 140lbs but at speed he could definitely hurt you if he hit you. And so it became a game with us. I'd crouch down and look at him, it was the signal. He would immediately charge straight at me from 50 or 60 feet away and just brush me as he passed by my immobile person. Quite thrilling for both of us!
Not so much with the motor vehicle-deer interface. My experience with deer has thankfully not included intimate contact, well, one did run into my car once, but I've seen enough deer on roads ahead of me to observe their inability to find traction on pavement. They sometimes get in the road and stop, then try to jump out of the way, or run away but in any event they cannot get that big initial jump which normally, in the woods, saved their life. Or, they are running full tilt through the woods and emerge from the side of the road at 40mph. Could they change direction even if they wanted? I have no over-riding philosophy regarding wildlife, Dogs, flat tires, aggressive cagers, or texters while I'm on a bike, but certainly am aware of them and do my best to be elsewhere.

Best,
Peter

[tiger_one]

I have hunted deer nearly all my life, from age 14 anyway, quit hunting about 5 or 6 years ago.  You both are right, if you frequent deer areas at certain times, you will see deer.  The trick is when is that time?

When the moon is straight up or straight under and a 2 hour window is very prime time for movement, but you can get a hint of this by all the other animals on the road, like dead coons or possum.  Course hunting season and hunters entering the wood sometimes 2 hours before daylight effect movement also.  Then we have the RUT, when bucks will go anywhere.

Deer also have to depend on what/where is the current food located and when is the best time to get it?  In this HEAT we are experiencing, the only green grass is along the interstate on the shady side and the deer hit it just before daylight, guess the dew makes it wet and they like that.  I notice that deer seldom cross interstates, or at least not as frequent as 2 lanes with close woods.

[oldbike54]

 Hmm , a solution to the deer problem is forming in the recesses of my mind ...wait for it ...





 Teach the deer to drive so the can simply drive to their feeding grounds 


  Dusty

[Dharma Bum]

Or another solution.  Since this thread started as a discussion on snipers being the latest problem we face out on the road,  how about not riding for a weekend and let the gunslingers take care of the deer?

[oldbike54]

Or another solution.  Since this thread started as a discussion on snipers being the latest problem we face out on the road,  how about not riding for a weekend and let the gunslingers take care of the deer?

 Judging by the news reports , maybe we should turn the deer lose on the snipers 

  Dusty

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Do deer eat snipers?