Author Topic: What's going on with MCN?  (Read 13964 times)

rob-mg

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2016, 08:07:48 PM »
I think that all of the motorcycle publications, including MCN, are captured by the industry, and that the reviews are worth nothing.

Independent reviewers on YouTube and elsewhere are perhaps the way forward, starting with this review of the Triumph Bonnevile: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RsKFsce5phw

Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2016, 08:18:33 PM »
I think that all of the motorcycle publications, including MCN, are captured by the industry, and that the reviews are worth nothing.

Independent reviewers on YouTube and elsewhere are perhaps the way forward, starting with this review of the Triumph Bonnevile: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RsKFsce5phw

How is MCN a slave to the industry or OEM?
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rob-mg

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2016, 08:27:08 PM »
How is MCN a slave to the industry or OEM?

I didn't say that MCN is a slave to the industry. I said that it is captured by the industry, which is not the same thing.

If you want to understand what I'm getting at, watch the YouTube review that I referred to. Whether you agree with it or not, there's a level of integrity that none of these publications provide, and what's more, you'll get a smile from it :) There's a reason why, as a review by someone with no video rep and no "motorcycle reviewer" rep, it has over 800,000 views.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 08:53:31 PM by rob-mg »

Offline leroysch

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2016, 10:10:58 PM »
Print media? How so 80's.
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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2016, 10:10:58 PM »

Lcarlson

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2016, 10:22:44 PM »
Yes it's the free content that's killing the publishing industry.

But the sad thing in a case like MCN if that they took the time to verify specs that manufacturers provide and measure specs OEM's don't. On doing so they created a table of apples to apples comparison data much of which is not available anywhere else, and certainly not by the free content sources.

I hope MCN survives, largely for the reason Kev cites, although it doesn't look good. That said, their recent announcement that they would no longer do real world performance testing (too much police exposure at their "secret" test road location) but use computer modeling instead, was not reassuring. I did email Dave Searle today, but have had no response. Of course, I only had his editorial address at MCN, and if he's already gone, no telling who got that email. Time will,tell.

Offline stevet

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2016, 11:52:39 PM »
This past Wed or Thur my new (Feb 2016) issue finally arrived, much later than usual.  I called the phone number shown inside the magazine, it ended up being the publisher's office.  I asked to speak with someone at MCN and they put me through.  I only got a voice mail (to someone whose name is listed as being on the editorial staff of MCN, nobody that has ever written a column), but I left my name and phone number, and asked about what is happening and how if this is a sign of the times it might affect my decision to continue subscribing.  I've not received a return call.  I've subscribed for about 10 years, but if this gets butchered down in quality and content, I will probably throw in the towel. 

Even before Dave's retirement announcement, they've had other columnists/contributors come and go in short order.  I don't recall their names now, but Dave's last two "right hand man" co-editor-types didn't last more than a year or so.  And I'll miss the medical column, I've learned a lot there, both from Flash Gordon and from Dr. Alevizos.

Fred Rau- I used to really enjoy reading his column, but a couple years ago something snapped in his writing and frankly I can pretty much do without him anymore.  Most of his recent writing has been rants about personality types that show up in his guided tours.

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Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2016, 07:09:52 AM »
I didn't say that MCN is a slave to the industry. I said that it is captured by the industry, which is not the same thing.

If you want to understand what I'm getting at, watch the YouTube review that I referred to. Whether you agree with it or not, there's a level of integrity that none of these publications provide, and what's more, you'll get a smile from it :) There's a reason why, as a review by someone with no video rep and no "motorcycle reviewer" rep, it has over 800,000 views.

OK, I sat through that and I'm going to have to admit I don't know what you mean by "captured" then.

But here's the thing.

That was a review all right (which is by the way, never the reason I read a publication about vehicles of any kind). But it was a review that cannot be done by a professional journalist working for a publication because it was the result of OWNING THE BIKE for thousands of miles which is unrealistic for a journalist review. It's unsustainable.

It was also a comic presentation, which is fine and entertaining if that's what you're looking for.

But it was nothing more than you can find, for free, on any enthusiast forum.

When I did read motorcycle magazines (and I am a current MCN subscriber, but I don't "READ" the articles except for rare occasions) I was only looking for the pictures and the specs anyway.

And I think it was the growth of forums combined with the quick availability of specs from OEM websites that basically stopped me from reading any bike (or car/truck) mags in the first place.

The one things that MCN provides or provided was 3rd party measured/verified specs and an apples-to-apples platform for spec comparison which was wonderful.

And, with a lack of advertising money, they were at least free to express any opinions they wanted without fear of penalty from the OEMs.

But yes, they are still part of an industry, a business, that is trying to make money and if that's "captured" ok, but arguably that's true of any business.

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Offline Testarossa

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2016, 10:29:05 AM »
Even a magazine that carries no advertising needs to maintain a civil relationship with manufacturers, distributors and retailers -- if only to maintain access to test products and even news. Consider what would happen to a publication or journalist who so alienates a segment of the industry that companies refuse to lend products for review or even to send in press releases and photos.

In some industries, or if the publication is well-enough funded based on a huge paying audience, editors may be able to buy products for review (Consumer Reports for example?). But if the stock-in-trade is expensive products sold to relatively few enthusiasts (motorcycles, aircraft, boats, sports cars) that's not happening.

This is a well-known bias in news organizations, too -- veteran reporters have often soft-pedaled political critiques in order to maintain access to newsworthy politicians and bureaucrats. You don't have to be corrupt to be complicit.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2016, 10:34:05 AM »
Even a magazine that carries no advertising needs to maintain a civil relationship with manufacturers, distributors and retailers -- if only to maintain access to test products and even news. Consider what would happen to a publication or journalist who so alienates a segment of the industry that companies refuse to lend products for review or even to send in press releases and photos.

In some industries, or if the publication is well-enough funded based on a huge paying audience, editors may be able to buy products for review (Consumer Reports for example?). But if the stock-in-trade is expensive products sold to relatively few enthusiasts (motorcycles, aircraft, boats, sports cars) that's not happening.

Come to think of it, I think I assumed MCN followed the same pattern as CR with regards to purchasing the reviewed vehicles vs. press fleet, but maybe that was a bad assumption.

At Chilton we used to use press vehicles, but we'd also purchase vehicles to tear down which was relatively inexpensive because they could be put back together and sold again which meant only a small net cost per vehicle.

Do we know for certain MCN was only using press vehicles?
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Offline Groover

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2016, 11:21:13 AM »
Magazines should print on Toilet Paper if they want to stay in the printing business and relevant.

12 Roll = 1 issue, sounds about right. Get your daily read-on or two and dispose of it. Hygienic, environmentally friendly, entertainment at your fingertips, and you get pick which article deserves first dibs at the cleanup duties.

Jokes aside, I do think (as many here already said) regularly printed materials are soon to be a thing of the past.

 
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Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2016, 11:48:50 AM »
Jokes aside, I do think (as many here already said) regularly printed materials are soon to be a thing of the past.

Which brings up an interesting problem that lots of publishers have been facing for a decade or so now, the devaluation of the content.

When some publishers started giving away CD's or E-copies of a book or magazine ALONG with the print version, people started to form the opinion that the only thing of value was the printed copy and the E-version should be FREE.

That makes it hard to transition to an E-only format.

Now the E-format IS often cheaper to produce, especially if delivered over the internet (as opposed to a CD which still has to be produced, packaged, shipped etc.).

And with the proliferation of free content on the internet, it's hard to convince people to PAY for content.

The scholastic publishing/textbook industry really should be the leading the way to E-books. There are a lot of high school and college kids who would be thrilled to carry a single tablet instead of backpacks worth of books. But scholastic publishers are leaders in the margin game and worry (despite the captive audience) about the devaluation of an E-copy of a $50 book, not to mention the additional exposure to piracy and passing around the E-copy on campus.

But yes, as I glance around my office and look at the hundreds of repair manuals on bookcases lining my walls I realize that a very large percentage of that data is live on the internet available via subscription. And it really makes sense.

I for one enjoyed a resurgence of reading for pleasure when I starting putting E-books on my phone after the birth of my younger kids. How convenient to have it there at my fingertips at any time.

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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2016, 11:56:16 AM »
With regard to MVN reviews, while they may be a part of the industry as it's getting defined in this discussion, it seems to be the most objective of the American publications.

A for reviews in general I'd like to think we take them all with a grain of salt.  The U Tube Triumph vid is entertaining but what makes any of those things valid?  For instance, in a general way, how often do we hear that the V7 in underpowered,. behind the times, or the Norge is WAY behind the BMW RT because it does not have cruise control and 27 riding modes and all that?

Or all the flack on the Street Tracker for being, LORD FORBID and how dare they, LESS hp than the old model?

This would be a fun discussion over beers and pizza, way too much to type, but what I'm saying is that SOMEBODY must like this stuff well enough to buy it.
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canuguzzi

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2016, 12:02:34 PM »
What a lot of publishers did was to use the most inept and unqualified people on the planet to write for their on-line editions. Readers simply looked elsewhere, not just away from print but away from the big branded names too.

Why read some trash from a big name publisher when you can get as good and likely better from someone who experienced what they are writing about?

A magazine might publish an article or review about a certain bike and gloss over most of what is important. Then some rider takes the same bike out and gives you their impressions and backs it up with video to boot. Why would you want to read the filtered stuff from the branded magazine?

MCN and the others could have followed the future instead of living in the past. They didn't so that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Offline kingoffleece

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2016, 12:04:44 PM »
You guys read BIKE and MSL?  Very entertaining.
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Offline Groover

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2016, 12:15:12 PM »
People don't want to pay for the full boat anymore, or at least I don't think. Music is the same way. iTunes, Amazon, etc. People used to buy a new music CD when it came out, but now, if you are still one buying music, then you may just buy a song or two. 99 cents or whatever it is to get just want you want, instead of $10 or whatever for the full CD to get maybe 1 or 2 other songs you like and 8 other songs you'll never want to listen to.

Magazines should do the same. If you want to buy all articles that have to do with a Moto Guzzi from any magazine, then you should be able to search a collective motorcycle magazine database with your phone app or whatever, and buy individual articles of Moto Guzzi sorted by year or publisher, author, instead of paying for an entire issue or yearly membership of something that may be filled with everything but what you had hoped for.

Granular media delivery.

Anyway, that's my million dollar idea. Somebody make it happen and pay me royalties on the creative concept  :cheesy:
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Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2016, 12:25:26 PM »
What a lot of publishers did was to use the most inept and unqualified people on the planet to write for their on-line editions. Readers simply looked elsewhere, not just away from print but away from the big branded names too.

Why read some trash from a big name publisher when you can get as good and likely better from someone who experienced what they are writing about?

A magazine might publish an article or review about a certain bike and gloss over most of what is important. Then some rider takes the same bike out and gives you their impressions and backs it up with video to boot. Why would you want to read the filtered stuff from the branded magazine?

MCN and the others could have followed the future instead of living in the past. They didn't so that's the way the cookie crumbles.

True, but it's not just a case of crap editors or crap content on the web.

Magazines for enthusiasts were based around a couple of concepts:

1. Photos/Specs/Reviews of new products (vehicles etc.) that their readers didn't readily otherwise have access to.
2. Advertisers to pay the bills.

Looking specifically at vehicles (but the model probably holds true to other areas) the entire content of the press kit, text and photos, is usually available online from multiple sources by the morning after the embargo date.

And the OEMs put a heck of a lot of it on their own websites too.

That just leaves reviews.

Now MCN and CR and what not attempt to provide additional objective data which I personally find attractive.

But the majority of most reviews are just subjective thoughts from someone who has had access to the vehicle for a week or two.

AND THAT can be found for free, and in MUCH GREATER DEPTH on motor vehicle forums. Penned by enthusiasts with a lot more experience in that model than a journalist can ever have if it's just an assignment. Sure the content is often biased as well, but at least committed bias and you know to expect it.

That leaves nothing unique for the magazine to deliver, effectively making it obsolete UNLESS it can come up with unique data/copy.



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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2016, 01:52:52 PM »
Geez, I don't know what that says about me, then.  I rather enjoy reading the different publications and most of the time think I can separate the fact from fantasy.  I had no idea I was so far behind the times.  No, wait.  I did.  My children tell me all the time!
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2016, 01:53:44 PM »
Don't get riled up-that was a joke.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2016, 02:03:40 PM »
Ha ha, jokes aside, there's nothing wrong with still enjoying it.

I mean, it could certainly be easier than tracking down the forum/enthusiasts for every bike in which you have any interest.

And if you like the reviewers and generally agree with or understand their leanings, then you'll likely enjoy what they write.

But it's not a sustainable pattern with the competition of other online sources.

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oldbike54

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2016, 03:09:28 PM »
 One thing about the free stuff on the internet , you get what you are paying for .

  Dusty

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2016, 03:13:22 PM »
True, but it's not just a case of crap editors or crap content on the web.

Magazines for enthusiasts were based around a couple of concepts:

1. Photos/Specs/Reviews of new products (vehicles etc.) that their readers didn't readily otherwise have access to.
2. Advertisers to pay the bills.

Looking specifically at vehicles (but the model probably holds true to other areas) the entire content of the press kit, text and photos, is usually available online from multiple sources by the morning after the embargo date.

And the OEMs put a heck of a lot of it on their own websites too.

That just leaves reviews.

Now MCN and CR and what not attempt to provide additional objective data which I personally find attractive.

But the majority of most reviews are just subjective thoughts from someone who has had access to the vehicle for a week or two.

AND THAT can be found for free, and in MUCH GREATER DEPTH on motor vehicle forums. Penned by enthusiasts with a lot more experience in that model than a journalist can ever have if it's just an assignment. Sure the content is often biased as well, but at least committed bias and you know to expect it.

That leaves nothing unique for the magazine to deliver, effectively making it obsolete UNLESS it can come up with unique data/copy.

 :thumb:

What magazine could match the reviews given out right here? None I think.

It costs a lot of money to keep editors and writers in tap. Their business models got left behind. They contributed value, just not the value a lot if people want to pay for anymore.

IMO , not too sure that the best editors or writers could do much better than most of the reviews done right here.

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2016, 04:34:58 PM »
Tablets and e-readers don't have any character.  Give me a wrinkly, crinkly, paper cutting, bug swatting magazine, anytime. 
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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2016, 06:52:00 PM »
I'll agree with that.  More than 10 minutes with a reader or tablet is painful for me.  I also like the sensation of the paper or magazine.
That said, look at the masthead of several of the magazines.  One, at least, is down to just THREE staffers.  Best indication that the writing is on the wall.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2016, 07:10:08 PM »
I know some prefer paper, but you're in the ever dwindling minority.

I tell ya, being able to hold a newborn son on your chest, in bed, next to your wife who needs to be sleeping and read a book in the dark, on your phone, for hours, is a both a situation and a luxury I never dreamed of as a child, but I'm glad I had.
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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2016, 07:20:13 PM »
 Paper books will be around until at least stardate 5928.5 , we know this because Picard likes to read paper books .

  Dusty

Offline jdelv

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2016, 09:05:41 PM »
Warts and all, MCN is the best motorcycling magazine out there IMO.  And I get tons of bike magazines.  I don't read all of them cover to cover, but look for unique content.  For example, the Duke 690 was  reviewed in three magazines this month.   You never get the predictable article in MCN.

Yeah, I was surprised Searle was retiring.  Forgot about LT Snyder.  The medical writing is good.  Bike reviews are the most in-depth and credible compared to the others.  Condon gone and Hough back was a wash for me, as both are total gurus.  Their letters section isn't just a circle jerk of praise, but real useful or interesting comments.  Articles go where no other publications go, for better or worse.  Like the three part series on blue printing your motor?  I'm sure some nerds really loved it.

I do think Dave Searle was the glue.  Fred Rau still has some good perspectives, but he's gotta be getting fried after all these years.  Glynn Kerr design trends are pretty good reads.

Bottom line, I started getting MCN around 2002 or 2003, shortly after I started riding.  It's been in my hands every month as I've gone from newbie to whatever it is I am today!  I'll subscribe even if it devolves into a quarterly newsletter.  But I sure I hope that doesn't happen. 



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Offline BMWDavid

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2016, 05:59:03 AM »
OK...I'm going to really date myself. I started reading MCN back when it was Road Rider magazine. I believe in the early-mid 70's. Been reading it all these years as  well as all the other cycle magazines that have come and gone. I still have most of my magazines from 1967 and on. It's a kick to go into my archives and pick out an issue from the 60's and 70's and read it again.

I like others have said find a pleasure in holding a magazine and thumbing through it. Reading on a PC, phone or tablet is not the same although I'm guilty of doing so.

Anyway sure hope MCN can survive and continue publishing what I think is one of the better magazines.
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Offline Aaron D.

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2016, 06:10:43 AM »
I pay for the Classic Bike, Bike, Motorsport and Classic and Sports Car, and get them on my iPad.

I like magazines better but these are very expensive in paper, and the issues on the stand are 2 months old.

The iPad versions are pretty much the same as the paper things ave always been. The US mags re also available that way but are much reduced compared to 20 years ago and really do't hold my interest-like MCN...

Offline sturgeon

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2016, 07:05:13 AM »
:thumb:

What magazine could match the reviews given out right here? None I think.


I find this forum, like most others dedicated to a single marque, to be much more biased in one direction than magazines. Brands other than Guzzi are regularly sneered at here, seemingly often without direct experience of what is being criticized.
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: What's going on with MCN?
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2016, 08:37:07 AM »
As an aside, Paul is looking to buy a Chinese 250.  A must read is the story in the current issue of Motorcyclist by Joe Gresh about touring on that bike.  It's fantastic and you'll laugh as you read it.  That story alone is worth the price.  I've never seen anything remotely as entertaining on an internet review.
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