What is a convert

[vstevens]

Ok.  I know it's an older moto guzzi from the 70's.  But it seems to get a lot of love here!  All guzzi's are special bikes, but what makes the convert so loved?

[twhitaker]

It's a G-5 with a 2 speed transmission and a torque converter where the clutch normally resides.

[vstevens]

Automatic transmission

Auto tranny... Is it set up like the Vespa twist n go or?  Seems to get a lot of attention on WG. 

[vstevens]

It's a G-5 with a 2 speed transmission and a torque converter where the clutch normally resides.

Thanks.  You answered my last question.  Might be a fun city bike, traffic cruiser, grocery getter, commuter, project bike. 

I'll do some more searching... Most posts are quite old with dead links

[pehayes]

Consider it a giant moped.  It has a fluid torque converter between the engine and the transmission.  Thus, it will sit at idle without any use of the clutch handle.  Just twist and go when the light turns green.
No, it is not an 'automatic transmission'.  It is a two-range manual transmission with a clutch handle and requires you to pull the clutch handle when switching from low range to high range.  Performance in low range is perhaps 0 to 75mph.  Performance in high range is perhaps 0 to 105mph.  Obviously, acceleration in low range is a little more 'sporty' than in high range.  Due to the fluid torque converter, there is very little 'engine braking' and thus a lot more reliance on the linked braking system when approaching a corner.  It does  have a clutch.  In fact, it is the multi-plate clutch taken from the 500cc Nuovo Falcone.  The clutch is not normally used in regular, sedate driving around town.  Brake-throttle-brake-throttle.  It will idle passively at a light until you twist and add rpm to go.  The transmission does NOT have a neutral position.  It is always either in low range or in high range.  Thus, any time you twist the throttle it moves forward.  For maintenance purposes, you need to bungee the clutch handle back to the handlebar in order to disconnect the engine from the transmission and allow engine revving without moving the machine forward.  It can be difficult to push the bike backwards when the engine is running.  Fuel consumption is much worse than a standard transmission Guzzi.  Difficult to exceed 35mpg consumption and worse if you get aggressive with the throttle.  There are TWO disc brake calipers at the rear wheel.  The first is a normal, hydraulically activated caliper 'linked' to the left front disc caliper as well.  The second is a much smaller, cable-activated affair connected to the sidestand.  When the sidestand is deployed and the bike's weight is leaning on the sidestand, this second caliper grips the rear disc to keep the bike from creeping forward while the engine is running.  The small, second caliper has no function when the bike is upright and operating along the road.

I still miss mine.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Arizona Wayne]

I had an `80 Convert w/sidecar and now have a `77 Convert. which get's 45 mpg.  My `80 got 40 mpg w/o car and the mufflers you have make a difference on your mpg.  When at a stop they are like an auto. car, you have to have your brake on or they will roll forward.   For in town or sightseeing they are superior to a 5 spd.  You rev the rpms up quicker if you want to accelerate faster from a stop.

[chuck peterson]

around here Converts are used to scratch the itch in your scalp when your trying to figure out wtf is going on with it...seems they run for a million miles (literally...there is one out there with that mileage on records) or they stop completely and puke all over the driveway...i had 2 for about 150k total

awesome respect for these

[rodekyll]

In my opinion, Pehayes got the best description of the Mighty 'Vert.

It's a simple fluid drive.  In it's simplest form it's powered by a torque converter coupled to an outdrive, much like the hydraulics on a boat or tow truck.  The two-range gearbox and clutch are really unnecessary.  In fact, I've successfully tossed everything between the torque converter and the rear drive, and it works just dandy.

In 1975 Guzzi introduced the V1000 engine in the Convert.  It was great stuff back in the day.  The target market was law enforcement in places like San Francisco and Seattle, where the hills and stop/go traffic are among the worst in the USA.  The prototype had no gearbox or clutch.  Those were add-ons to satisfy a motor cop market that felt they needed to shift.  But as mentioned above, low range is good for at least 75 (I regularly passed 80 on mine before I locked the shifter in high range) and high range also starts out from a stop and goes to well over 100mph.  So the need for a shifter was mostly sentimental.  The clutch is a testament to the add-on nature of the gearbox/shifter/clutch.  It was designed as a scooter clutch -- a multi-plate, wet design.  It was stuffed between the torque converter and the gearbox in the Convert, but dry, not wet.  So it 'sorta' works sometimes.  Mostly though it won't disengage cleanly, is useless for on-the-fly shifting, and the steel plate dogs tend to notch the clutch basket and hub to the point that you can't disassemble the transmission.

The fluid drive is the least efficient of any power transmission.  So the Mighty 'Vert needed that V1000 motor to match the performance of the 850s.  I've improved that with 1100EFI engines in two rigs.  As mentioned above, it traditionally pulls low-mid 30s for fuel economy.  This seems true regardless of the engine used or how it's loaded. In my opinion, the 1100 engine makes the Mighty 'Vert unconquerable. 

The beauty of the torque converter is that it decides on your load and balance and sets its slip accordingly.  So it's always In the right gear.  You don't need to worry about shifting or finding neutral.  There is no danger of popping the clutch and stalling in an intersection, and there is ZERO CHANCE OF PULLING A WHEELIE!

The riding experience on the Mighty 'Vert is similar to piloting a battle cruiser.  The PIC sends a message to the engine room via the cable telegraph to "DO TURNS FOR 60!"  The engine rumbles up to 4500rpm (+/-).  The torque converter pressure increases and the total hydraulic slip begins to make a fluid coupling.  As the coupling becomes more efficient, the Mighty 'Vert begins to move forward.  The motion increases the fluid coupling's efficiency, and "acceleration" happens.  All this time the engine speed is constant and the gear reduction is constantly changing to keep the engine at that RPM.  Sooner or later the wheels catch up with the engine speed and the PIC trims the throttle to maintain an even 60mph.

As mentioned, the Mighty 'Vert has a flywheel that would work at half the weight.  In fact, it used to be half the weight.  But it was a stamped, sheet metal drive plate, not a cast flywheel.  So under the stress of the above acceleration description, the drive plate tended to twist itself off of its own hub, effectively disconnecting the engine from the ground.  So some time in 1976 the stamped driveplate was upgraded to the heavier unit.  This resulted in almost no engine braking.  On throttle overrun the bike simply coasted.  The 'coast effect' was a turn-off to many, and is one reason the 'Vert is a limited interest item.  Some people regain the engine braking by shaving the 14# heavy wheel to about half it's mass.  This gives the rig an entirely different personality, on both the accel and decel.

I bought the first of my Mighty 'Verts in 1978.  Although many 'verts and 5-speeds have passed through my hands since, I have retained the "Rodekyll" for ~200k miles now.  It's been border to border and coast to coast.  It's trip ready as I write this.  It's 45 years old, but I'll jump on it tomorrow and do the Alcan.  They're just that good. 

I've done a lot of tinkering on it over the years.  My son says it's not really a '76 anymore, since everything in it has been replaced/upgraded/tossed.  I binned the clutch control and drove roll pins into the clutch pack to disable it.  I locked it in high range and threw away the shifter.  The flywheel was lightened to 6.5#.  I delinked the brakes, tossed the foot brake and moved the rear brake control to the left handlebar.  Then I got serious with it and shoehorned in a Jackal engine where the V1000 used to be, converting the bike to EFI in the process.  With the Califia size III (LARGE) fairing and California Fats bags it looks like it rolled out of a time warp.  I like it that way.

[vstevens]

In my opinion, Pehayes got the best description of the Mighty 'Vert.

It's a simple fluid drive.  In it's simplest form it's powered by a torque converter coupled to an outdrive, much like the hydraulics on a boat or tow truck.  The two-range gearbox and clutch are really unnecessary.  In fact, I've successfully tossed everything between the torque converter and the rear drive, and it works just dandy.

In 1975 Guzzi introduced the V1000 engine in the Convert.  It was great stuff back in the day.  The target market was law enforcement in places like San Francisco and Seattle, where the hills and stop/go traffic are among the worst in the USA.  The prototype had no gearbox or clutch.  Those were add-ons to satisfy a motor cop market that felt they needed to shift.  But as mentioned above, low range is good for at least 75 (I regularly passed 80 on mine before I locked the shifter in high range) and high range also starts out from a stop and goes to well over 100mph.  So the need for a shifter was mostly sentimental.  The clutch is a testament to the add-on nature of the gearbox/shifter/clutch.  It was designed as a scooter clutch -- a multi-plate, wet design.  It was stuffed between the torque converter and the gearbox in the Convert, but dry, not wet.  So it 'sorta' works sometimes.  Mostly though it won't disengage cleanly, is useless for on-the-fly shifting, and the steel plate dogs tend to notch the clutch basket and hub to the point that you can't disassemble the transmission.

The fluid drive is the least efficient of any power transmission.  So the Mighty 'Vert needed that V1000 motor to match the performance of the 850s.  I've improved that with 1100EFI engines in two rigs.  As mentioned above, it traditionally pulls low-mid 30s for fuel economy.  This seems true regardless of the engine used or how it's loaded. In my opinion, the 1100 engine makes the Mighty 'Vert unconquerable. 

The beauty of the torque converter is that it decides on your load and balance and sets its slip accordingly.  So it's always In the right gear.  You don't need to worry about shifting or finding neutral.  There is no danger of popping the clutch and stalling in an intersection, and there is ZERO CHANCE OF PULLING A WHEELIE!

The riding experience on the Mighty 'Vert is similar to piloting a battle cruiser.  The PIC sends a message to the engine room via the cable telegraph to "DO TURNS FOR 60!"  The engine rumbles up to 4500rpm (+/-).  The torque converter pressure increases and the total hydraulic slip begins to make a fluid coupling.  As the coupling becomes more efficient, the Mighty 'Vert begins to move forward.  The motion increases the fluid coupling's efficiency, and "acceleration" happens.  All this time the engine speed is constant and the gear reduction is constantly changing to keep the engine at that RPM.  Sooner or later the wheels catch up with the engine speed and the PIC trims the throttle to maintain an even 60mph.

As mentioned, the Mighty 'Vert has a flywheel that would work at half the weight.  In fact, it used to be half the weight.  But it was a stamped, sheet metal drive plate, not a cast flywheel.  So under the stress of the above acceleration description, the drive plate tended to twist itself off of its own hub, effectively disconnecting the engine from the ground.  So some time in 1976 the stamped driveplate was upgraded to the heavier unit.  This resulted in almost no engine braking.  On throttle overrun the bike simply coasted.  The 'coast effect' was a turn-off to many, and is one reason the 'Vert is a limited interest item.  Some people regain the engine braking by shaving the 14# heavy wheel to about half it's mass.  This gives the rig an entirely different personality, on both the accel and decel.

I bought the first of my Mighty 'Verts in 1978.  Although many 'verts and 5-speeds have passed through my hands since, I have retained the "Rodekyll" for ~200k miles now.  It's been border to border and coast to coast.  It's trip ready as I write this.  It's 45 years old, but I'll jump on it tomorrow and do the Alcan.  They're just that good. 

I've done a lot of tinkering on it over the years.  My son says it's not really a '76 anymore, since everything in it has been replaced/upgraded/tossed.  I binned the clutch control and drove roll pins into the clutch pack to disable it.  I locked it in high range and threw away the shifter.  The flywheel was lightened to 6.5#.  I delinked the brakes, tossed the foot brake and moved the rear brake control to the left handlebar.  Then I got serious with it and shoehorned in a Jackal engine where the V1000 used to be, converting the bike to EFI in the process.  With the Califia size III (LARGE) fairing and California Fats bags it looks like it rolled out of a time warp.  I like it that way.

Beautiful write up.  Thanks for educating/introducing me to a great bike.  Seems to be a bargain

[TodkaVonic]

In my opinion, Pehayes got the best description of the Mighty 'Vert.

It's a simple fluid drive.  In it's simplest form it's powered by a torque converter coupled to an outdrive, much like the hydraulics on a boat or tow truck.  The two-range gearbox and clutch are really unnecessary.  In fact, I've successfully tossed everything between the torque converter and the rear drive, and it works just dandy.

In 1975 Guzzi introduced the V1000 engine in the Convert.  It was great stuff back in the day.  The target market was law enforcement in places like San Francisco and Seattle, where the hills and stop/go traffic are among the worst in the USA.  The prototype had no gearbox or clutch.  Those were add-ons to satisfy a motor cop market that felt they needed to shift.  But as mentioned above, low range is good for at least 75 (I regularly passed 80 on mine before I locked the shifter in high range) and high range also starts out from a stop and goes to well over 100mph.  So the need for a shifter was mostly sentimental.  The clutch is a testament to the add-on nature of the gearbox/shifter/clutch.  It was designed as a scooter clutch -- a multi-plate, wet design.  It was stuffed between the torque converter and the gearbox in the Convert, but dry, not wet.  So it 'sorta' works sometimes.  Mostly though it won't disengage cleanly, is useless for on-the-fly shifting, and the steel plate dogs tend to notch the clutch basket and hub to the point that you can't disassemble the transmission.

The fluid drive is the least efficient of any power transmission.  So the Mighty 'Vert needed that V1000 motor to match the performance of the 850s.  I've improved that with 1100EFI engines in two rigs.  As mentioned above, it traditionally pulls low-mid 30s for fuel economy.  This seems true regardless of the engine used or how it's loaded. In my opinion, the 1100 engine makes the Mighty 'Vert unconquerable. 

The beauty of the torque converter is that it decides on your load and balance and sets its slip accordingly.  So it's always In the right gear.  You don't need to worry about shifting or finding neutral.  There is no danger of popping the clutch and stalling in an intersection, and there is ZERO CHANCE OF PULLING A WHEELIE!

The riding experience on the Mighty 'Vert is similar to piloting a battle cruiser.  The PIC sends a message to the engine room via the cable telegraph to "DO TURNS FOR 60!"  The engine rumbles up to 4500rpm (+/-).  The torque converter pressure increases and the total hydraulic slip begins to make a fluid coupling.  As the coupling becomes more efficient, the Mighty 'Vert begins to move forward.  The motion increases the fluid coupling's efficiency, and "acceleration" happens.  All this time the engine speed is constant and the gear reduction is constantly changing to keep the engine at that RPM.  Sooner or later the wheels catch up with the engine speed and the PIC trims the throttle to maintain an even 60mph.

As mentioned, the Mighty 'Vert has a flywheel that would work at half the weight.  In fact, it used to be half the weight.  But it was a stamped, sheet metal drive plate, not a cast flywheel.  So under the stress of the above acceleration description, the drive plate tended to twist itself off of its own hub, effectively disconnecting the engine from the ground.  So some time in 1976 the stamped driveplate was upgraded to the heavier unit.  This resulted in almost no engine braking.  On throttle overrun the bike simply coasted.  The 'coast effect' was a turn-off to many, and is one reason the 'Vert is a limited interest item.  Some people regain the engine braking by shaving the 14# heavy wheel to about half it's mass.  This gives the rig an entirely different personality, on both the accel and decel.

I bought the first of my Mighty 'Verts in 1978.  Although many 'verts and 5-speeds have passed through my hands since, I have retained the "Rodekyll" for ~200k miles now.  It's been border to border and coast to coast.  It's trip ready as I write this.  It's 45 years old, but I'll jump on it tomorrow and do the Alcan.  They're just that good. 

I've done a lot of tinkering on it over the years.  My son says it's not really a '76 anymore, since everything in it has been replaced/upgraded/tossed.  I binned the clutch control and drove roll pins into the clutch pack to disable it.  I locked it in high range and threw away the shifter.  The flywheel was lightened to 6.5#.  I delinked the brakes, tossed the foot brake and moved the rear brake control to the left handlebar.  Then I got serious with it and shoehorned in a Jackal engine where the V1000 used to be, converting the bike to EFI in the process.  With the Califia size III (LARGE) fairing and California Fats bags it looks like it rolled out of a time warp.  I like it that way.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that.

[tazio]

I STILL don't get "all the love" for these creatures.
But I must admit a perverse attraction to this two wheeled beastie in the field..
There is certainly no denying the love shown by their owners

The riding experience on the Mighty 'Vert is similar to piloting a battle cruiser. 

[Arizona Wayne]

Unless you know someone who is really knowledgeable about what  Convert.s are all about, I wouldn't buy 1.   They are definitely different than your usual bike.  I've owned 1 before so I knew what they should act like when I got my 2nd 1.   If mine gets an auto/clutch issue, I'll be in deep $hit.   The regular Guzzi stuff I'm familiar with.  They are like a work horse, in no way a hot rod, but not a dog either.  And they ain't light!   

[fotoguzzi]

Unless you know someone who is really knowledgeable about what  Convert.s are all about, I wouldn't buy 1. 

Don't worry, you do know someone, all of us.. riding a Convert is like being on a magic carpet.

[Rich A]

It's true that the 'verts are big bikes and heavy. But one of their virtues, at least in my mind, is that they are relatively easy to handle at slow speeds. No feathering the clutch in parking lots, none of that stuff.

I get fairly decent mpgs with mine (mid 35s) probably because I do a fair amount of coasting.

Fotoguzzi--that's a purty one.

Rich A

[fotoguzzi]

Fotoguzzi--that's a purty one.

Rich A

it was a fun experiment, EV into Vert, w/SP clothes..Made it work but I lost my mojo before completely refining it.. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gow4iwqwLJc

[Arizona Wayne]

Fotoguzzi, I see you made a SP into a Convert. with an even newer motor. 

[fotoguzzi]

Fotoguzzi, I see you made a SP into a Convert. with an even newer motor. 

3# flywheel, it ripped!

[rodekyll]

It's true that the 'verts are big bikes and heavy. But one of their virtues, at least in my mind, is that they are relatively easy to handle at slow speeds. No feathering the clutch in parking lots, none of that stuff.

I get fairly decent mpgs with mine (mid 35s) probably because I do a fair amount of coasting.

Fotoguzzi--that's a purty one.

Rich A

I can do figure-8's lock-to-lock on mine in the space of 4 facing parking slots.  Without having to keep the clutch and throttle under control it's very easy.  "Parade speed" for congestion or whatever is also much easier on a Convert than a 5-speed.  And when you translate the banging and stress of the comparative drivelines, the Mighty 'Vert should have an advantage in longevity, too.

Also, if you're having a problem rolling a 'vert backwards with the engine running you might have the idle set too high.  Mine almost feel like they're in neutral when stopped and I have no problem paddle-walking them backwards.  Except for the trike.  I didn't want to have to do that, so I made it have a reverse gear.  It goes backwards as fast as forwards.

The best part is that given a few parts and some spare time, you can 'verticate almost anything, as fotoguzzi proved with the SP-vert.  We saw each other's 'vertifications for the first time when I brought a Jackal-powered 'Vert to the Money Creek rally, at which he debuted his purty SP-hosted rig, so we know they work.

Here's a hydro EV done up as a convert.  It's been as far east and west on the NA road system as is possible without taking a ferry.  Notice the ATF tank under the seat and the cooler on the frame's front down tubes:





And here's one done as a trike, using only the hydraulic drive part of the Convert.  The torque converter drives the differential directly at 1:1.

[Groover]

Nice I-Convert information in this thread. Great stuff! Thanks guys!

[rodekyll]

Nobody uses "I"-Convert much anymore.  The "I" though is somehow short for a word meaning "hydraulic" or "fluid" in Italian, from what I've been told.

[chuck peterson]

Here you go....

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/mcy/5564365102.html

[Groover]

The I stands for Idro (Hydro). I've seen people/sellers also refer to them them as IC only in Europe. Just adding what I know about these bikes in this thread.. Other than that, I've got nothing  . (Also serve as keywords)

[chuck peterson]

Convert discussion group on yahoo...not real busy but great for specific questions...if you mention your looking for one you'll get some offers

[vstevens]

Beside the yahoo discussion group, are any good convert forums
or how-to blogs out there?  The more I see of the convert, the more of a 'convert' I become... Bad pun 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Greg Bender has some very useful information on his website:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti.html#I

You've probably seen it already, but I have a project going on, building a Convert/Ambassador "hybrid". http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82735.0

[dsrdave]

There is a lot of knowledge right here on WG.  I take RK's post along with a few others pretty serious.  They were a big help to me when rebuilding a trans do to some leaking seals.  Some of these guys are WAY BETTER than any dealer in understanding these bikes.  The bikes are not that weird, just different with some unique issues.

[steven c]

 A Convert is for shiftless riders. I know a few.

[rodekyll]

IIRC, the total production run for the first gen Converts was under 5,000.  4400 rings a bell.  So yes, you know a few riders -- very few.  It breaks my heart every time I see lamontsanford parting out yet another convert on ebay -- they can't be replaced.  He seeks the poor things out and breaks them to the bone.  Me, I buy up the unique bits and store them for later.  You never know when you'll need that notched brass t/c nose bushing or the tank upper return hose banjo . . .

I sincerely think Guzzi is missing an opportunity by not reintroducing the Mighty 'Vert attached to a 1400 BB.  It is the perfect geriatric sled, hack or trailer tug, urban trekker, and long distance mile-eater.  It would also be a natural donor for commercial trike conversions.  With the 1400 it could truly be a shiftless machine, since it worked well as a V1000 and even better as a V1100.

[cruzziguzzi]

I think Patrick and RODEKYLL's write-ups are the best summations that I've ever read or heard on operating these things.

I've had a "transmission" and flywheel sitting around since finding them too cheap to not buy. Seems buying one of these bikes and having a spare tranny (I know not to bother trying to convert to CONVERT) might be exactly the ticket for my wife, as shifting is simply too great a distraction for her.


Todd.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, I'll be the dissenting opinion. I've ridden a couple, and thought, "This is the answer to the question nobody asked.."