New 2012 Griso Owner - Roller Tappet Issue!!

[Dilliw]

This is from my experience of buying a used flat tappet '11 last year just like yours.

Must do:

Rollers
Swing arm service
NGK plug swap
Set preloads and suspension settings
Ride a lot!

Nice to do:

HH pads (mine are still on the bench)
Guzzidiag/cables
Beatle Map


My farkles:

Guzzi rear tail rack
Guzzi rear tail bag
C Bow Mounts
HB soft luggage
Knight Design 1" peg lowering
Knight Design adjustable brake pedal (if lowering the pegs)
Onar's bar risers
National Cycle Deflector DX removable screen

My To Do list:

Traxxion re-spring and re-valve of the rear shock ($375)

With the Beatle Map, and based on the dash computer, I averaged 43.5mpg on a 323 mile loop this weekend.  I can't wait to do it again this weekend.

[Lannis]

I'll probably have to pay for the kit myself as there is unlikely to be much wear but c'est la vie.

Jim
 

There was no "c'est la vie" for me on this one ... my attitude was "Pas fini!"   

Guzzi SNAFU'ed this one, screwed the pooch, stepped on their own crank, whatever simile you want to use.   You have to pay for the labor (yours or the dealers); no way should you be paying for the kit, too, in a situation where Every Single One of the 8Vs they sold in this period were just flat-out defective.

I worked mine out with my dealer - they said they would work hard and fast with Guzzi to make sure that Guzzi understood that the kit was needed gratis, and they did, even though the tappets were only "discolored" (and that was a fairly subjective call) and were not eroded or missing material.   I had told them that I'd pay their labor, but I was not paying for the kit, and if Guzzi wouldn't do it, I'd just scrap the bike, part it out, or wholesale it to them if they wanted it.

It worked out OK though, and I have the bike back and running well .... But I'd push hard on the kit.   It was a matter of principle to me; I'd have been gritting my teeth every time I rode it if I'd been done brown by those guys ....

Lannis

[old head]

There are a host of prettier, lighter, aftermarket pipes available but they will all perform better with a dB killer installed due to the design of the heads and the cam timing and profiles.
Pete

So, Pete,can you tell us your findings on exhaust options that meet your approval.

Old Head

[Demar]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned the 2012 rear suspension link recall. Your bike might not be affected but it might be and it may have been replaced already. You should have the dealer check it out. It's 100% covered by MG, at least it was at the time, and I think they will still honor it. You mentioned a build month for your bike of Jan. 2012.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/recall/moto-guzzi-griso-norge-stelvio/

http://www.motointernational.com/blog/news-and-events/post/moto-guzzi-suspension-link-recall-is-well-underway

The models affected are select 2012 and 2013 models (those with letters C or D before the letter M in the VIN number).

[Wayne Orwig]

With the Beatle Map, and based on the dash computer, I averaged 43.5mpg on a 323 mile loop this weekend.  I can't wait to do it again this weekend.

Where are we going? 

[twowings]

I love my 'Beatle' map!

http://www.liverpool-map.com/beatles-places



Seriously, my bike runs like a dream thanks to beetle's fine work! 

[Dilliw]

Where are we going? 

Frog Level.  See you there

[El Faziz]

Thanks for the to do/wish lists for the bike while it's in the shop. Thousand Oaks just picked it up, and I spoke at length with Eddie. They know the issue inside and out and he said they have been able to force Piaggio (sp?) to pay for the kits if the DLC is even the tiniest bit discolored, so I'm hopeful. They also feel Moto Guzzi screwed their customers on this set-up so they really push hard on em. We'll see. 

I wish I could remember who gave me the tip to go see them and talk to Alex, Brian, or Eddie. I got a real good feeling about them and even if I have to pay for the kit, I think the job will be done well. They also recommended dropping the sump and maybe cleaning out some of the oil lines if it looks the wear warrants it. They also suggested the suspension and swingerarm lube before I even mentioned it which according to Pete is a good sign.

....It was a matter of principle to me; I'd have been gritting my teeth every time I rode it if I'd been done brown by those guys ....

I know how you feel, Lannis, and if I had bought this bike brand new I might still be pissed off at MG, but I bought it used and level any blame on me and inadequate research when the issue is pasted all over the internet! Though really, it practically is a brand new bike and I just assumed a reputable manufacturer wouldn't have bikes out there with such a flaw. I should know better because those days of doing business seem to be long gone.

Either way, I've rarely thrown a gal I've fallen in love with out the door upon finding a few quirks or flaws in her personality. Sometimes, in fact, it has made me more attracted to them! Oft times the kookiest or most problematic have been the most fascinating!!

Pete, the sport bike character is what I was looking for and I think we will be a good fit. That's why I wanted a V11 before I found the Griso. My last bike was a Honda VTR1000 and I loved that bike, especially the jet fighter-like turbine whine as you rev'd it out in second gear. But now that I'm old I want a mellow sport bike...

 

[Demar]

Thanks for the to do/wish lists for the bike while it's in the shop. Thousand Oaks just picked it up, and I spoke at length with Eddie.

Do you know if the suspension link recall has been done assuming your bike was recalled?

[ohiorider]

Do you know if the suspension link recall has been done assuming your bike was recalled?

I believe a MG dealer can look up the recalls that have been performed on a bike (by VIN, most likely)

[egschade]

We discussed this last week. Engine no. 13524 was officially the first roller tappet Griso. Although Pete said that wasn't exactly true as a few flat tappets have been recorded with higher engine numbers.

Interesting... the 2012 SE I'm about to buy is A8-13542. Hopefully my new ride isn't one of those 'leftover' flat tappet units.

[Demar]

Interesting... the 2012 SE I'm about to buy is A8-13542. Hopefully my new ride isn't one of those 'leftover' flat tappet units.

If it is, we could start an entire new thread about replacing the flat tappets with rollers.

[pete roper]

Interesting... the 2012 SE I'm about to buy is A8-13542. Hopefully my new ride isn't one of those 'leftover' flat tappet units.

Should be roller but check.

Pete

[El Faziz]

If it is, we could start an entire new thread about replacing the flat tappets with rollers.

  OK, Demar, that was FUNNY (slapping knee). That's exactly what I meant about brevity and wit!    I plead guilty and I really do thank everyone for their amazing patience and to Pete especially who I can tell probably has little hair left from tearing chunks out when someone like me shows up. Hopefully you won't be saddled with another newbie who doesn't know enough to research enthusiast forums.

The service records show work done for a "double con-rod recall" warranty claim. Is that the suspension link?
 

[El Faziz]

PS   I did figure out Pete Roper and Vasco DG were one and the same on my own...do I get any newbie points for that? Maybe not, at one point early on I almost wrote "Look, Pete, another mechanic named VascoDG  says this about the tappets, opposite to what you are saying...what gives?!?" 

Don't know if I could have shown my face here again after that...

[Demar]

The service records show work done for a "double con-rod recall" warranty claim. Is that the suspension link?

I believe it is. I'm glad you knew I was joking earlier. This forum is exceptional in the willingness of experienced owners to help anyone who needs help. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There is so much knowledge in this forum I am continually amazed to see question after question answered. Kudos to all those who help. I, and others without much experience really do appreciate it.

[pete roper]

OK, Demar, that was FUNNY (slapping knee). That's exactly what I meant about brevity and wit!    I plead guilty and I really do thank everyone for their amazing patience and to Pete especially who I can tell probably has little hair left from tearing chunks out when someone like me shows up. Hopefully you won't be saddled with another newbie who doesn't know enough to research enthusiast forums.

The service records show work done for a "double con-rod recall" warranty claim. Is that the suspension link?

Yes.

[Bill Hagan]

****

Don't know if I could have shown my face here again after that...

I assure you that you could have.

Many if not most of us are at an age where we can't remember what we had for breakfast, much less remember Guzzi gaffes.

Bill

[Chuck in Indiana]

do I get any newbie points for that?

Yes, extra credit for that. Many long time denizens took a while for that to sink in.. 

[El Faziz]

Thousand Oaks pulled the tappets out. Images below. Even after reading all about the issue, I never would have believed a 1300 mile Griso's tappets would have this amount of wear! I honestly thought that the tappets would look so new that Guzzi wouldn't authorized the parts.

Guzzi has approved the wear, but want to see my service records. The first one was done at 800+ miles; I believe Pete said first one should be at 10k km. I can just see Guzzi rejected paying for the parts cuz the bike was a few hundred miles past the first service mileage. That would be a little too low-down for them, or would it? I'll find out Tuesday...

So does the amount of wear warrant pulling the sump and cleaning lines?

[pete roper]

Sump yes, lines no. In theory you would ideally strip the motor but being realistic? No, a simple sump clean out will do the trick.

Unfortunately this is just further proof. There is no such thing as a good flat tappet motor.

Pete

PS. First service should of been around 500 miles/800km. After that, every 6000miles or 10,000km. I've never had a problem with bikes a few hundred either way. If there are great chunks of history missing like my turdy Stelvio? Fergeddit!

I think it would be remarkably churlish to knock you back on a 1,500mile bike!

[Wayne Orwig]

Thousand Oaks pulled the tappets out. Images below. Even after reading all about the issue, I never would have believed a 1300 mile Griso's tappets would have this amount of wear!

With that amount of wear, it that short of a time, it proves that some engineer somewhere really screwed up. It wouldn't have take much design testing to show what a failure that DLC coating was.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Not a particularly good engineering solution to make a bad problem even worse by having bits of "diamond like" coating floating through your oil..  hello..

[lucian]

Good going EF,  you caught it very early and it looks like MG should cough up the kit. Now you just need to get a cable from Lonelec , download guzzi diag and hook up with beetle for his roller map . It will transform your low speed fueling. Hard to believe failure at such low mileage, mine looked very similar at 3,000 miles. I've had zero problems since. Best of luck moving ahead!

[Nic in Western NYS]

Not a particularly good engineering solution to make a bad problem even worse by having bits of "diamond like" coating floating through your oil..  hello..

Even the best companies make big mistakes but this was a whopper.  Hopefully no lasting harm to this engine.  Unbelievable the amount of wear in so few miles.

[Xlratr]

1300 miles?? :-0
You did the right thing though, and it must be good to know that you now have a perfect Griso!
:-)


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[El Faziz]

Quick update. Well, maybe not so quick knowing me.

Guzzi will pay for my A kit for the roller tappets, and the dealer will charge $450 to put them in. So this particular little journey for a 61 year old geezer brand new to Guzzies has turned out as good as I can hope for.

As mentioned before, I've wanted a Guzzi almost all my life, thinking them this mysterious, quirky, exotic bike always hiding out somewhere in the primeval mist. I've rarely seen them on the road, at events, anywhere really. Kinda mythic.

But somehow over the years, the concept of a Guzzi as kind of a troubled wife, the kind with all manner of disabilities but also with strange and unexpected qualities, which somehow bring out a fierce love and loyalty in one, became the image in my mind of the marque.

So here I am, not yet even having the pleasure of meeting my sweetheart, much less of having her under me, and I'm already finding out it is all true. (Well, at least for me...)

Now with that issue out of the way, guess I'll start a thread on finding high quality but really cheap oil!

Thanks all for advice and patience   



   

[pyoungbl]

Don't forget to grease those swingarm bearings! 

[El Faziz]

Don't forget to grease those swingarm bearings! 

Here is what I'm having the dealer do:

Replace tappets with rollers
Complete service (all fluids changed, systems checked, nuts/bolts tightened, etc)
Sump drop and clean out
Suspension linkage lube
Swingarm bearing lube

When I get down there, I'll check condition of tires. (it's basically been sitting since 2012 and tires made in 2011), and perhaps get suspension adjusted.

Just posted thread about spark plug failure issue. I want to fix everything on it that will break me down on trip from LA to SF before I start.

Thanks everyone for input. Anything I've forgotten?

[Chuck in Indiana]

strange and unexpected qualities, which somehow bring out a fierce love and loyalty in one, became the image in my mind of the marque.

Welcome to Guzzi stewardship.  You are going to be a fine "keeper." 
Now about that oil...