My old life is over...

[Rick in WNY]

Well, it's done. My old life is over. I am officially starting over.

I bought my first Moto Guzzi.

She's a 2004 California Titanium with only 15K miles on the clock. The original owner bought it as a commuter that he could have his wife hop on the back for weekend trips. She never cared for the pillion seat, and when she got a chance to ride on a friends Goldwing... the previous owner had to go buy a Goldwing. So, this Guzzi has been sitting, waiting for some love.

And then I came along.

My wife and I went and took our MSF course last week, and the dealer that was hosting the class had my Guzzi in his showroom. I saw her from across the showroom, and walked right past several Harleys, Hondas, and a Triumph. I went right to the back of the room... that  correctly oriented V-Twin called to me.

After a few days of research, talking to the wife, and looking at my bank balance, I called the shop. Got the backstory on the Guzzi. I called them again this morning, told the shop owner it was a "Go" on my end and asked when he could have it ready. His answer was "Oh, give me 2-3 hours..." I told him I didn't need it quite that fast, so I'm going to pick up my Italian Lady on Saturday.

I'll post pics when I get her home, but this is the fullfillment of a dream I've had for... quite a while.

[Kev m]

There's a lot to like about that bike.

Here's to new beginnings!

RIDE SAFE

Kev

[Tom H]

That engine should be a Hydro. Just make sure all the updates were done on the engine and possibly the lower triple clamp.

Nice bike! Congrats!
Tom

[Rick in WNY]

Tom, what do you mean a Hydro? i'm not familiar with that term in regards to a motorcycle... can you please explain.

[oldbike54]

 Hydraulic liters , from the factory there was a major issue with these . A quick search on WG will clue you in . Good luck and welcome to the family .

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Tom, what do you mean a Hydro? i'm not familiar with that term in regards to a motorcycle... can you please explain.

It should contain hydraulic lifters (which negate the need for periodic valve adjustments).

Unfortunately like 99% of the rest of the world Guzzi screwed the pooch on something with design or parts specs on the hydro motors and they were likely to fail early. Guzzi worked through 2-3 different fixes until they finally hit upon THE ONE.

Hopefully it was done as those kits are getting scarce.

The only real way to tell if it was done is to remove the valve covers and see if the valve lash adjusters were broken off (last step of the correct fix).

In theory a dealer could run the VIN against the Piaggio NA database, but sadly it was reported that some dealers submitted warranty claims on bikes that never got the fix, therefore that method would be unreliable.

I'm told that once the proper fix was in place that they are stellar motors and should give you years of hassle-free enjoyment.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Welcome to WG, and sorry we are possibly bursting your bubble. If it was me, before signing any paperwork, I'd make *sure* about the hydro fix..*and* the triple tree recall.
I'm not sure about the single plate clutch problem with an 04.. I don't think so.
At any rate, go in with your eyes open.

[chaoselephant23]

Tom, what do you mean a Hydro? i'm not familiar with that term in regards to a motorcycle... can you please explain.

Welcome to the best replacement for Facebook evar (as someone mentioned earlier today:)

Hydro means, this engine is Guzzi's first (and last) attempt at hydraulic lifters. The benefit being you never have to adjust your tappets!!! (or buy valve cover gaskets again )

However Guzzi did not do so well with the implementation. Around 25,000 miles the CAM starts to eat itself. Spreads all the metal bits throughout the engine till its dead and done. There were three CAM recalls. The final being the necessary evil to keep the lump going.

Checking if the CAM recall is pretty easy. First, pull a valve cover off. Check the rocker arms for adjusters with a sheared off surface. Pic here http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=45144.msg677444#msg677444. Then check that the valve spring caps are not magnetic. If these checks turn up good, good chance the recall work has been done.

However as I just found out with my 03 EV Touring, sometimes the recall wasn't completed fully. In my case, the tappets and buckets were not replaced with the recall parts and the recall CAM has now started to eat itself into bits

So I would take your recall step one (or two or three) steps further. Step one would be drop the sump, then peer up into the crankcase from down below. If the CAM has oil holes at the bottom of the lobe, its the new CAM. Old CAM didn't have em. Also check that the DLC (Diamond Like Coating) is still intact on the bottom of the tappet buckets. Step two is for the semi-ultimate assurance that your block will go the miles. Take the valve covers off (hopefully they are still off:), then remove one or both rockers. Remove the pushrods (making sure to label the top of the pushrod and the side it will go back in). Take a small magnetic pickup tool with long reach to remove the hydraulic tappet. If the tappet DOES NOT have a flimsy tin foil hat that holds the plunger in BUT has a circlip, the tappets were done too. Step three is for the true paranoic: that is to check the oil pump for damage. If the CAM started to go, the metal bits go into the oil pump as its pre-filter. You'll need to pull the timing cover, remove the timing gears and chain, then remove the oil pump (which is a most hateful experience). Neat part is while your in there you can put a valtech timing tensioner in there (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_126&products_id=347) and a higher output CNC oil pump (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_162&products_id=1985). Make sure you pre-fit the key into the oil pump sprocket key way. My pump's key way was too small, thus I had to remove the pump to dremel out the key way to fit. The oil pump is really no fun to remove. Even with heat its a PITA.

This concludes checking for the CAM recall. Hope that your block is good to go, because the pickup of that dang hydro is intoxicating

Have no fear if your hydro hasn't had the recall work. Mike Haven of now-defunct-MPH Cycles has a few kits left and is willing to loan out the tools for a refundable fee (or someone on here will lend em to yah)

But wait there are more things to check.

Another sore spot of the hydros was a single plate clutch that failed rapidly. Single plate clutch was replaced with the standard dual plate clutch. Easy to check. On the RH side of the engine there is a timing inspection hole in the bellhousing. Take the cover off. Peer inside. If you see lots of flywheel to the right of the ring gear, your got double plate clutch. Here is a pic http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=60644.msg926522#msg926522

Lastly, certain castings of the triple trees were known to crack. This was a goverment issued recall. Easiest inspection of them all. Just check the trees for cracking. You can also check your casting number against those that were found to fail here http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=45144.msg677398#msg677398. If none, ride on into the sunset pilgrim.

Hope that your checks prove a sorted hyrdo.

[Tom H]

Now that we have scared the heck out of you. If it's all sorted so it's ready to go. They go nice!! My '04 EVT is nice! Runs and pulls very nicely!

I like the Hydro enough that I almost bought another one. It was pretty, looked like new and if the price had stayed near what I could spend, it would have been in my stable!

Hope it's all sorted! You'll like the bike!

Tom

[geoff in almonte]

Couple other items to check out: make certain that the fuel line in the gas tank has been replaced with a 'submersible' hose, and that the plastic fuel filter has been replaced with a metal one.  And you might want to replace the gas cap with an all metal one from MG Cycle.

Bloody ethanol!

My '04 EVT is still rolling with well over 200,000km on it.

Cheers!

G

[Nic in Western NYS]

Couple other items to check out: make certain that the fuel line in the gas tank has been replaced with a 'submersible' hose, and that the plastic fuel filter has been replaced with a metal one.  And you might want to replace the gas cap with an all metal one from MG Cycle.

Bloody ethanol!

My '04 EVT is still rolling with well over 200,000km on it.

Cheers!

G

That's about 125k miles : ) - if these bikes get sorted, they are DURABLE and tough.  Congrats on a bike you may never want to give up.  The sorting can be a great learning experience and you might bond more with the bike if you realize it needs a little tlc.

[pat80flh]

Welcome, looks like we may be neighbors. I'm fairly new to Guzzis , can wrench a little, I'm in Ontario Co.  Clifton Springs , if you need anything.   

[nobleswood]

If you are nearby, there is a Guzzi rally the weekend of June 9, 10 & 11 in Westfield, NY

Here's another suggestion drop by & see Jim Mignogna,
10277 State Route 34
Weedsport NY 13166

[Dilliw]

Welcome to the best replacement for Facebook evar (as someone mentioned earlier today:)

Hydro means, this engine is Guzzi's first (and last) attempt at hydraulic lifters. The benefit being you never have to adjust your tappets!!! (or buy valve cover gaskets again )

However Guzzi did not do so well with the implementation. Around 25,000 miles the CAM starts to eat itself. Spreads all the metal bits throughout the engine till its dead and done. There were three CAM recalls. The final being the necessary evil to keep the lump going.

Checking if the CAM recall is pretty easy. First, pull a valve cover off. Check the rocker arms for adjusters with a sheared off surface. Pic here http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=45144.msg677444#msg677444. Then check that the valve spring caps are not magnetic. If these checks turn up good, good chance the recall work has been done.

However as I just found out with my 03 EV Touring, sometimes the recall wasn't completed fully. In my case, the tappets and buckets were not replaced with the recall parts and the recall CAM has now started to eat itself into bits

So I would take your recall step one (or two or three) steps further. Step one would be drop the sump, then peer up into the crankcase from down below. If the CAM has oil holes at the bottom of the lobe, its the new CAM. Old CAM didn't have em. Also check that the DLC (Diamond Like Coating) is still intact on the bottom of the tappet buckets. Step two is for the semi-ultimate assurance that your block will go the miles. Take the valve covers off (hopefully they are still off:), then remove one or both rockers. Remove the pushrods (making sure to label the top of the pushrod and the side it will go back in). Take a small magnetic pickup tool with long reach to remove the hydraulic tappet. If the tappet DOES NOT have a flimsy tin foil hat that holds the plunger in BUT has a circlip, the tappets were done too. Step three is for the true paranoic: that is to check the oil pump for damage. If the CAM started to go, the metal bits go into the oil pump as its pre-filter. You'll need to pull the timing cover, remove the timing gears and chain, then remove the oil pump (which is a most hateful experience). Neat part is while your in there you can put a valtech timing tensioner in there (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_126&products_id=347) and a higher output CNC oil pump (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_162&products_id=1985). Make sure you pre-fit the key into the oil pump sprocket key way. My pump's key way was too small, thus I had to remove the pump to dremel out the key way to fit. The oil pump is really no fun to remove. Even with heat its a PITA.

This concludes checking for the CAM recall. Hope that your block is good to go, because the pickup of that dang hydro is intoxicating

Have no fear if your hydro hasn't had the recall work. Mike Haven of now-defunct-MPH Cycles has a few kits left and is willing to loan out the tools for a refundable fee (or someone on here will lend em to yah)

But wait there are more things to check.

Another sore spot of the hydros was a single plate clutch that failed rapidly. Single plate clutch was replaced with the standard dual plate clutch. Easy to check. On the RH side of the engine there is a timing inspection hole in the bellhousing. Take the cover off. Peer inside. If you see lots of flywheel to the right of the ring gear, your got double plate clutch. Here is a pic http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=60644.msg926522#msg926522

Lastly, certain castings of the triple trees were known to crack. This was a goverment issued recall. Easiest inspection of them all. Just check the trees for cracking. You can also check your casting number against those that were found to fail here http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=45144.msg677398#msg677398. If none, ride on into the sunset pilgrim.

Hope that your checks prove a sorted hyrdo.

There were different versions of the kit. Mine has different cam shiny hats different springs but the rockers are the old style.  85k and still going strong

[Rich M]

Have a 2003 Titanium with all three (3) issues resolved by Piaggio. The one that concerned me most, was the triple tree. Had a visible micro crack in it, and opted to ride it in for replacement.

Runs like a charm and love it. Hope you enjoy yours over the years to come.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TobyJug]

So this will be your first Guzzi.  I'm curious to know what your first impressions are.  I bought my first Guzzi (a V50) without a test ride and when I rode it home I thought it felt like a plank of wood.  I came to love it.

[Arizona Wayne]

So this will be your first Guzzi.  I'm curious to know what your first impressions are.  I bought my first Guzzi (a V50) without a test ride and when I rode it home I thought it felt like a plank of wood.  I came to love it.

Now that you mention it, the rider has to adapt to the Guzzi's idiosynchrocies, unlike some other brand bikes.  At least I had to when I bought my `81 CX100 over 30 years ago.  Rode it 45 minutes to decide if I wanted to do that or not.  Still have it, 100K+ miles later. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Rick.. you still here, or have we totally scared you off?

[Rick in WNY]

Still here... was having computer issues yesterday afternoon, finally got it sorted out, then went to bed.

Back on here this morning, and looks like I have a lot to look at tomorrow when I go pick her up.

The good news is, the current owner (bike is on consignment at the shop) is another engineer person. I'll get to meet him tomorrow morning, and will have the time to ask him questions. Supposedly, he's uber-fussy about maintainence, and made a point of telling the shop owner that all the recall work on this bike had already been taken care of. Again, I'll find out for certain tomorrow, but as a matter of professional courtesy, I do want to believe that Rodger has taken good care of this bike.

Yes, this will be my first Guzzi... to say it was love at first sight is pretty accurate. i'm expecting a few quirks, but hey, that's life when you're dealing with an Italian supermodel, right? 

Thank you all for the info and pics, I'm sure I'll be asking a lot more questions.

pat80flh, I've been to Clifton Springs a few times... it's not too far from where I call home. If I say "Dundee NY" most people look at me kinda confused, but say "15 minutes north of Watkins Glen" and people have some idea of where I'm at.

nobleswood, thanks for the info, I'll see if I'm available that weekend. if so, I'll let you all know.

Again, huge thanks everyone, I honestly don't feel worried about this purchase, it should be a very good thing, and FYI, I do have better than average mechanical skills, but my biggest asset? I'm not afraid to ask questions! So expect them from me, especially here in the near future as I get used to my Italian lady.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Attaboy. The best Guzzi you can buy is one that has been kept by a knowledgeable and caring "owner." 

[elvisboy77]

Congrats!  I say don't worry, the bike sounds like it is fine.  Lots to love about that bike!

[timonbik]

Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the valve/cam issue with the HYDROS was NOT a recall but a technical service bulletin and will not show up on recall records, so saying all recalls were done doesn't necessarily mean the lifter issue was resolved.  If it was a RECALL the mothership would still be on the hook for the recall work forever and a day such as the triple tree issue.  The work if done will also not necessarily show up on Guzzi records as well.  Just so the purchaser goes in with the correct info and his eyes wide open.

Hope all is good,  Tim

[Rick in WNY]

Pics of my new baby...

[Kev m]

Nice - tons of goodies on that too.
 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the valve/cam issue with the HYDROS was NOT a recall but a technical service bulletin and will not show up on recall records, so saying all recalls were done doesn't necessarily mean the lifter issue was resolved.  If it was a RECALL the mothership would still be on the hook for the recall work forever and a day such as the triple tree issue.  The work if done will also not necessarily show up on Guzzi records as well.  Just so the purchaser goes in with the correct info and his eyes wide open.

Hope all is good,  Tim

I *think* this is true. My memory is suspect, though. I'd have a valve cover off and look post haste, anyway.

[vstevens]

Congrats!  And welcome!
 

[vf84pc]

Rick,

Congratulations on the California you won't be disappointed! You hear allot about the hydro's (Hydralic Lifters, they Don't need adjustment) versus Solid Lifter (needs adjustment ) here on wild guzzi, if the recalls are done you are fine. If you call Kustom workz (716)651-0044 they are the dealer in Buffalo and can check the recall status with the Vin of the bike. The biggest concern of that model and it was not a factory recall is the clutch. I have a 2004 EV Touring and it had the single plate clutch that left me stranded in PA. Do a site search here and you will find pictures of the single plate clutch and the double plate clutch it will also instruct you on how to check the clutch to determine which one it has. If the bike has the double plate clutch you are golden. If it has the single plate they need to change it or reduce the price by $1500.00 If the bike has 15,000 miles it probably has the double plate clutch since they failed about 10,000 miles and every 2003 and 2004 California I have seen had the recalls completed. I live west of Rochester my email is smapes444@yahoo.com and my phone is (585)300-3143 contact me anytime. If you don't feel confident about checking the clutch I can meet you at the dealer and assist you. I don't want to dissuade you this is the best and most versatile bike I have ever owned and it is maintenance free.
We have our Moto Guzzi National Owners Club ralley coming up in June  It is in Westfield NY we are open to all makes and models and it is a family friendly event. I hope you can join us you will meet great people and have allot of fun.

Jun 9 to Jun 11, 2017
WESTERN NEW YORK MGNOC RALLY

Early arrivals are always welcome. KOA Campground, Westfield, New York, 8001 Route 5, Westfield, New York 14787. Dinner Friday night. Sausage and gravy and biscuits Saturday morning. Awards for bikes ridden, chicken BBQ Saturday evening. Coffee and cold drinks all weekend. $12 rally fee, $10 per night camping, local motels provided on request. http://koa.com/campgrounds/westfield/. Contact: MGNOC Rep Joe Casey: 716-560-0562.

Welcome to the Guzzi Fraternity your life will never be the same!

Regards,
Scott

[Orange Guzzi]

Hydraulic liters , from the factory there was a major issue with these . A quick search on WG will clue you in . Good luck and welcome to the family .

 Dusty

From my personal perspective, the hydro engine is the best of the old style engines.  Yes there was an issue and if it was fixed, the issue was fixed.  I have heard of the steering crack issue, but know one has ever "seen" a cracked steering stem.  If they have, they have never posted an image or concurred with the recall every time I have ask.  I like my hydro engine and will admit to abusing it every ride. 

[Orange Guzzi]

It should contain hydraulic lifters (which negate the need for periodic valve adjustments).

Unfortunately like 99% of the rest of the world Guzzi screwed the pooch on something with design or parts specs on the hydro motors and they were likely to fail early. Guzzi worked through 2-3 different fixes until they finally hit upon THE ONE.

Hopefully it was done as those kits are getting scarce.

The only real way to tell if it was done is to remove the valve covers and see if the valve lash adjusters were broken off (last step of the correct fix)


In theory a dealer could run the VIN against the Piaggio NA database, but sadly it was reported that some dealers submitted warranty claims on bikes that never got the fix, therefore that method would be unreliable.

I'm told that once the proper fix was in place that they are stellar motors and should give you years of hassle-free enjoyment.

   


From what I have read, the hydro engine has a Crane cam with a different profile and timing than the solid lifter engine.  The manufacture did not "case harden" them properly.  In the grinding process, the case hardening was ground off and left soft spots that would wear. 

[Dilliw]

My '03 post recall.  The rockers don't have the tabs but I do know that a kit was installed. You can see the shiny hats and the different springs.