Author Topic: Older Japanese inline 4's  (Read 10927 times)

Rough Edge racing

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Older Japanese inline 4's
« on: June 05, 2017, 07:34:41 AM »
 I have never owned one but have ridden a few....For a winter project I'm looking at later 70's-80's inline 750's for a cafe build..I want something with grunt and not interested in smaller 4's...I see a few 750's for sale that are neglected going for less than 700 bucks..
  For you guys that own or have owned them, is any brand better than the other? Are there models to avoid because of mechanical design issues?? I'm not afraid to dig into repairs but trying to avoid splitting the engine cases if possible..Thanks
 

Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 07:36:13 AM »
  Do you carry insanity insurance?  And a really large supply of profanity?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:37:04 AM by Sasquatch Jim »
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Offline PeteS

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2017, 07:39:13 AM »
I have only ridden first generation 4s. Honda 750, Kawi Z1 900, early '80s Suzuki 1100s. I wouldn't describe any of them as having grunt. Top end rush yes but no bottom end. Newer ones have likely changed that.

Pete

Offline zebraranger

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 08:04:35 AM »
I've had both a 76 KZ900 and a Honda 750 Four both as project bikes. Biggest pita with either was keeping the carbs in sync, both are easy to work on. Cant beat Honda reliability if the bike is treated right. The KZ900 was much faster and seemed a little more robust, its the one that I preferred of the two. With that being said, I'm kinda partial to the KZ900 because I once owned one way back when I was a kid. The Honda seems to be the preferred bike for a café project by most and parts are still readily available on the secondary market.

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 08:04:35 AM »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 08:45:04 AM »
Another 4 w/grunt is the Yamaha XS11 and a bit more bottom. Lot's of them around too.
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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 09:24:50 AM »
 I prefer a chain drive because it's far easier to deal with when making modifications...Kaw i 900/1000's don't go for short money even when beat up, pretty much the same for SOHC 750 Hondas..

Offline jas67

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 10:53:12 AM »
How about an early 90's Kawasaki Zephyr?     They made 550cc, 750cc, and 1100cc models.
When they show up on Criagslist, they're usually relatively cheap ($1,500-$2,500 in decent condition).



That way, you get a more modern engine with electronic ignition, and more modern brakes.
The styling is similar (though with a different shaped fuel tank) to the KZ900 & Z1.

Here is a cool looking customized 1100 that I found with a google search:


And a customized 750:
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 10:54:06 AM »
The Suzuki GS1100E or ES from the early to mid 80s was fast and strong, but most have been trashed at the drag strip. I think if I was in your place I would check out the Honda CB900F. The wheels look a little funky (Comstars...they look pretty good if painted all flat black), but it's a great package. Honda even offered rear sets for this bike as a dealer option! Superbars, a V&H 4/1, modern rubber, shocks, fork springs, and re-jetting and these bikes are very good...the CB750F, too (Maier still makes sidecovers for the 750F; a commonly lost/broken bit of the integrated bodywork).

« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 11:25:29 AM by Sheepdog »
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oldbike54

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 10:55:11 AM »
 GS Suzukis are a good choice , decent handling . The stators are all prone to failure , find a good source of spares .

 Dusty

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2017, 11:22:30 AM »
GS Suzukis are a good choice , decent handling . The stators are all prone to failure , find a good source of spares .

 Dusty

  My first choice is a 70's-80's GS 750....I have found a few for less than 1000 bucks....but......I t seems most project bikes have screwed up titles...The seller says clear title but it's in the previous sellers name and 6 years old....
  I'm thinking a 750 is the biggest bike that won't exceed 500 pounds...by much....Figure on reducing the weight by 50 pounds during the transformation.....
  I have considered the  V twin Japanese cruisers, namely the monoshock Virago and the Vulcan....Problem is these cruisers have high steering necks and longer forks to imitate a custom bike...I am not afraid to modify the frame but it's something I have to think about. Changing the fuel tank and seat gives a cruiser a totally different look...
   

Offline JJ

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 12:02:06 PM »
Agree with most of what others have posted.  Here's two more classics to add to your list...if you can find clean, unmolested examples. :thumb: :1: :cool: 

My advice - buy a "stock" 4-cylinder example, (any of the Big Four)...and don't "cobb-up" a bike into cafe racer, especially if you don't have the time, money, or expertise... :wink:





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Rough Edge racing

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 12:14:17 PM »
Agree with most of what others have posted.  Here's two more classics to add to your list...if you can find clean, unmolested examples. :thumb: :1: :cool: 

My advice - buy a "stock" 4-cylinder example, (any of the Big Four)...and don't "cobb-up" a bike into cafe racer, especially if you don't have the time, money, or expertise... :wink:







 I do have the time,money and expertise to build it into something I like... :grin:  That's why I'm looking for a bike that needs a a lot of cosmetic work because the tank, fenders and seat will be discarded..

Offline JJ

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2017, 12:23:00 PM »
I do have the time,money and expertise to build it into something I like... :grin:  That's why I'm looking for a bike that needs a a lot of cosmetic work because the tank, fenders and seat will be discarded..

OK - noted...and good luck and keep us posted!  I like this build!  :thumb: :1: :cool:




image upload


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Offline Scud

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 12:28:47 PM »
You want the grunt, but you don't want the weight...

Take a look at the Yamaha FJ1100. I had one of those and it was a beast of a motor. I think the frame is pretty light - and kind of modern looking, so maybe not what you had in mind style-wise.  It's a faired bike, so if you can find a good runner with lots of plastic damage it could be a good platform to start.

Here's a nice one in Orange County, CA for $1,500.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/6154869395.html
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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2017, 12:30:31 PM »
I was a service manager at a large Kawasaki/Suzuki dealer one summer when aviation was in a slump. while I don't remember much about the particular models, my belief is that a big Suzuki would be what Id be looking for.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2017, 12:32:40 PM »
the last iteration of in line 4 cyl air cooled design are the Suzuki GSX- series.  I have 80K on my 1200 Bandit (GSF-1200) a detuned version of the GSXR-1100 sportbike.


« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 12:33:20 PM by LowRyter »
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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2017, 12:44:05 PM »
The Suzuki 1200 Bandit-S...another great 4-cylinder!!  :1: :cool: :thumb:  Saw this lovely example on the streets of Jerome, AZ Saturday...



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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2017, 12:47:44 PM »
 I'm bidding on this one....it's four hours away, has a clear title in the sellers name,should be enough wrong to keep the price reasonable and hopefully  the bidding won't get silly...

          http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Suzuki-GS-/152573538754?hash=item23861771c2:g:DJcAAOSwAPVZNLCv&vxp=mtr




      This is a 550, but the look I'm after....Be a piece of cake after building the recent double engine Triumph race bike....

           


     

Offline PeteS

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 01:24:15 PM »
You want the grunt, but you don't want the weight...

Take a look at the Yamaha FJ1100. I had one of those and it was a beast of a motor. I think the frame is pretty light - and kind of modern looking, so maybe not what you had in mind style-wise.  It's a faired bike, so if you can find a good runner with lots of plastic damage it could be a good platform to start.


That motor does have grunt. The service manager at the BMW shop close to Rough and me put that motor in a '70s Ducati frame. Rough, ever meet Jake at Country Rode?

Pete

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 02:07:45 PM »
That motor does have grunt. The service manager at the BMW shop close to Rough and me put that motor in a '70s Ducati frame. Rough, ever meet Jake at Country Rode?

Pete

 I've only been to the BMW dealer one time and the owner looked at my Buell like it was hillbilly trash  :grin: :grin: ...Seriously, I really don't know anyone who builds bikes in this area...  That FJ probably has more grunt than I need.....I think a 750 will be adequate but if bigger engine bike shows for reasonable money I won't turn it away....
  We bought another home in Marion and are getting ready to sell this place so I looking to buy cheap and put it away till winter...

Offline PeteS

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 02:46:53 PM »
Jakes a good guy. The owner, not so much.

Pete

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 02:52:41 PM »
The Suzuki 1200 Bandit-S...another great 4-cylinder!!  :1: :cool: :thumb:  Saw this lovely example on the streets of Jerome, AZ Saturday...





Thats a 1250 bandit. Great bike.

Offline Bullitbob

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2017, 03:04:30 PM »
I've been riding this Cb750 Honda for almost a decade. I've put around 20-25000 miles on this bike including several 800+ mile road trips. Aside from a very unusual oiling issue that ate a cam bearing/cam/two valves, it's been dead reliable. I double checked the carb sync when I got it and haven't touched them since (will be rebuilding them this summer). It had a DynaS electronic ignition in it when I bought it and had to replace it this past winter. Maintenance is relatively easy and if you can find a good shop manual for it things are pretty simple. I've ridden with guys on big Harley baggers and hi way bikes and generally don't have a problem keeping up.  As for the other Japanese bike companies, I can't say much. Generally Kaws and Yamaha's are solid bikes but I would stay away from the early Suzuki's. That's my two cents. -Bob O



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Offline john fish

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2017, 07:35:07 PM »
GS Suzukis are a good choice , decent handling . The stators are all prone to failure , find a good source of spares .

 Dusty

The suzis were the first Asian bikes that were OK in the handling department.  Also, the motors are generally bulletproof. 
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Offline wymple

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 07:35:40 PM »
What power level do you draw the line at? Any 1100 Suzuki was a monster. There are others in the game but the most reliable motor/trans combos were the big GS Suzukis.  Suzuki had a stator problem as the bikes got old, but replacements, along with a Polaris 775 R/R cures everything. They are cheaper to buy because there are so many survivors, supply and demand. The 2 valve head engines are considered one of the world's toughest engines, 4 valve heads were a little faster. Torque on either was generous, downshifting is optional. I like the XS1100 really well (the 1st true hyperbike) but there were 2nd gear problems. Those were famous for torque. I also like the CB900 stuff, but they would not run with the others. They did have a desirable dual range tranny to knock highway RPMs down. If you want it all in an inline 4, you get an 1150 Suzuki. I lose interest in the looks after that, don't like the Bandits, naked bike looking stuff, or sport anything. I'm stuck 86 and lower.
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Offline hcso617

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2017, 08:27:09 PM »
I'm with the GS-1100E or KZ-900-1000 crowd having owned a few.  The GS not only had stator issues, but grenaded clutch baskets, Vance and Hines sold a billet clutch basket that cured that.

KZ 900's could be bored to 1015 easily and ran well. The early KZ 1000's could go out to 1103 and ran well also.  Stay away from the 998 motor in the J models.

Good luck, I'm looking for a 78 or 80 Z1R to restore I still have parts laying around from my youth.  I worked as a parts guy in a Kawasaki Suzuki dealership after I got out of the service.

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2017, 09:24:34 PM »
I would highly recommend the Honda Nighthawk 700s but it's a shafty. I wouldn't say it has big grunt but it has giddyup (80hp) and in your weight class of just over 500#.  It's a sweet engine and handles GREAT.  Cake to work on. Could be cafe'd.
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Offline chuck peterson

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2017, 07:50:33 AM »
There is a facebook group "Japanese vintage motorcycles...every one posts their builds, but strictly no selling...lots of ideas from around the world...as for me, I like the smaller zingers...





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Rough Edge racing

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2017, 08:09:02 AM »
  Thanks for all the suggestions ,I appreciate it......Most likely my choice will come down to price, a proper title,and how far I have to drive to pick it up...
  And, 10 miles away is a large all Japanese bike indoor salvage yard...They sell bikes for projects, I have bought some bits and pieces there for other projects......Why didn't I think of this, Duh......

Offline lrutt

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Re: Older Japanese inline 4's
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2017, 09:09:25 AM »
Electrical systems were simple, and even if buggered are easy to rebuild, even create your own new harness.

Carbs....that is the tricky part. So many of these old carb racks have been sat and are really in poor shape inside. You have to be careful there. but once cleaned and set they hold a set really well. I have 3 old Jap 4's and have no problems in that regard. But I also run ethanol free fuel and drain the carbs if the bike sites more than a few days. Never have problems.

hard to go wrong with almost any old SOHC 4. they all had the strong and weak points. Personally I'd stay away from the shim motors. The 79+ Hondas had shims on top of buckets and would spit them at high RPM's. I like my old SOHC Honda motors as they have screw adjusters and are very easy to work on. I think Honda has best parts support as well.
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