High Cost of Ducati Service

[Rusnak_322]

I have two 4 valve ducati's, both were bought used with about 3,5oo miles and both are at 24k miles now.

The service has been done per the book, and neither has ever needed a shim changed. I recently started using a local independent Ducati mechanic and he suggests that we just change belts in 7,500 miles and check the valves every other belt change.

Not to be a snob, but the extra costs are worth it. I cant think of any bike I would want to own (new or used) in place of my Monster S4Rs. I do all the maintenance other than belts and valves (and fork seals). My wife loves her 1098 but I know she would take a 1098R or 1198 in place of it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

hahahaha

yeah, right

Hey, that's the way their shop manual shows it.  They have a bare engine on a bench and the valve check/adjust looks easy at that point!

That's the way I did it.  My fat fingers just couldn't get in there..

[Shorty]

No worries. Harley gonna fix that lil problem. They will install hydraulic lifters and apehangers.    They will recoup their money on those $100 spark plugs and "Aquila Urlando" exhaust pipes.

[rocker59]

Not to be a snob, but the extra costs are worth it. 

Yep.  I've owned one Ducati and have ridden quite a few. 

I'll own one again, and yep, the extra costs are "worth it".

[Rough Edge racing]

Oh, no problem. All you have to do is pull the engine out, put it on the bench, adjust that rear cylinder, and put it back in. <shrug> 

  Plenty of room on the older Monsters, yes, that's my wooden tank prop......I don't know about the new air cooled bikes....

     

     

[Tusayan]

When comparing Ducati models with their direct competition (Japanese, Italian or UK made) many of the Ducatis are easier to maintain:  I have a belt 900SS to maintain (very easy), an ST2 (about the same as a comparable competitor, fairing removal is a pain) and a 996 (valves are time consuming but removing everything to gain access is wonderful).  I also have a bevel SS (not often ridden and anyway very easy to maintain).  If you have time to do the work yourself, its more straight forward to maintain a Ducati than most competitive bikes, it just takes some time, so my solution has been to have a few of them and take my time doing the maintenance myself.  That makes it cheap.

If you compare Ducati maintenance with a Guzzi, the Guzzi is easier.   Guzzis are better if you have one bike and need the maintenance done fast and cheap.  More comparable to an older BMW than a Ducati in every way, including some compromise in handling and performance.

[poorBob]

Well, at the other end of the spectrum there's guys like me who think if only I had the option to have a Pete Roper or Harpers working on my Guzzi in SLC, Ut. I wouldn't bat an eye at those costs ...

GuzziSteve just finished the 24 k service on my Stelvio and I have the peace of mind knowing that the bike is dialed in at a level most dealerships could never attain. It runs like a Swiss watch and I feel blessed to have someone with his knowledge and ability taking care of Stonkzilla for me. I could learn to do the basics but could never match his attention to detail. I never bat an eye - he would be cheap at twice the price. My Mistral pipe is to be delivered tomorrow and I have no idea what he is going to charge to install it. That peace of mind is worth whatever he is asking and then some. It's a good place to be!

[timonbik]

This is where we are with the 696.

Granted Jenn doesn't put a ton of miles on it, but we're past the first check now, only do belts every 4 years or so and we've not had a single problem with it, unless you count that we mysteriously had to bleed the rear brake this year after winter storage with no sign of why.

Mysterious air appearing the rear caliper of a Ducati is "a thing".  On my 620 Multistrada I had to bleed the rear brakes at least once or twice per year.  No apparent reason, no leaks or loss of fluid.  Just lost the pedal.  Many others report the same thing.  At least it is easy and quick to bleed them.
Cheers, Tim

[JJ]

Yep.  I've owned one Ducati and have ridden quite a few. 

I'll own one again, and yep, the extra costs are "worth it".

At the end of the day, I suppose it's all relative anyway....with motorcycles and most FUN hobbies....and as the old saying goes:  "If you want to PLAY...then ya gotta PAY!!"  :1:

As far as vintage Ducati's, I always had a "Jones" for this one...

[Kev m]

Mysterious air appearing the rear caliper of a Ducati is "a thing".  On my 620 Multistrada I had to bleed the rear brakes at least once or twice per year.  No apparent reason, no leaks or loss of fluid.  Just lost the pedal.  Many others report the same thing.  At least it is easy and quick to bleed them.
Cheers, Tim

Thanks for another confirmation of that. A few told me that on DMF and I was like WTF?

Funny though that's the first time it happened to us since we bought it new in 2011 <shrugs> and just had the fluid finally changed last year <shrugs again>.

JAY - you listening - watch for this on your 796 I guess.

But you're right, it was quick and easy so I'm not complaining.

[Rough Edge racing]

Mysterious air appearing the rear caliper of a Ducati is "a thing".  On my 620 Multistrada I had to bleed the rear brakes at least once or twice per year.  No apparent reason, no leaks or loss of fluid.  Just lost the pedal.  Many others report the same thing.  At least it is easy and quick to bleed them.
Cheers, Tim

 Is the rear master cylinder, not the remove reservoir, located below the master cylinder ?

[Kev m]

Is the rear master cylinder, not the remove reservoir, located below the master cylinder ?

Yeah, it is, just a tad bit below on the 696.

So what's the explanation?

[Rough Edge racing]

  Sometimes a system with a lower master can cause drainback from the caliper into the master cylinder  and a spongy pedal.. Generally, they may have a check valve of some sort to prevent this...Perhaps over time during storage some fluid drains back...

[Kev m]

  Sometimes a system with a lower master can cause drainback from the caliper into the master cylinder  and a spongy pedal.. Generally, they may have a check valve of some sort to prevent this...Perhaps over time during storage some fluid drains back...

But where/how does the air get in?

[Huzo]

  Sometimes a system with a lower master can cause drainback from the caliper into the master cylinder  and a spongy pedal.. Generally, they may have a check valve of some sort to prevent this...Perhaps over time during storage some fluid drains back...

How does the air get into the caliper to allow this draining back of the fluid to occur ? Unless air is entering the caliper, draining back of the fluid would leave a a vacuum in the top of the caliper and prevent displacement would it not ?

[Rough Edge racing]

But where/how does the air get in?

 Not so much air as the slow seepage of fluid retracts the caliper piston and makes for excessive travel... Do you see or hear the air when you bleed it? 

[timonbik]

As I said, it is a thing.  No logical explanation.  It just happens, "mysteriously"!!!

Cheers, Tim

[Tusayan]

I found on my 996 that tightening the rear caliper bleed nipple slightly tighter correlated to the issue going away.  Whether that was the cause or if was unrelated I don't know, but the rear brake previously needed to be bled after a period of storage, now it does not.

[Huzo]

As I said, it is a thing.  No logical explanation.  It just happens, "mysteriously"!!!

Cheers, Tim

There will be a logical explanation. Only Guzzies defy logic !!!

[Huzo]

I found on my 996 that tightening the rear caliper bleed nipple slightly tighter correlated to the issue going away.  Whether that was the cause or if was unrelated I don't know, but the rear brake previously needed to be bled after a period of storage, now it does not.

Ever tried to bore out and replace a snapped bleed nipple ? Taking it out and carefully cleaning the tapered end and replacing it is a good move.

[Tusayan]

Ever tried to bore out and replace a snapped bleed nipple ? Taking it out and carefully cleaning the tapered end and replacing it is a good move.

Yes, and I'm sure I did that before tightening the bleed nipple slightly tighter.  Or I replaced it.  The female surface is likely to be an issue too, particularly if it doesn't match the nipple.  I've been working on motorcycles, cars and airplanes since 1974.

[Huzo]

Yes, and I'm sure I did that before tightening the bleed nipple slightly tighter.  I've been working on motorcycles, cars and airplanes since 1974.

Yes mate it's ok... really. I broke one off on a GT 380 in 1977. Made a dogs breakfast of the repair back then. Done it since ok though.

[timonbik]

Not so much air as the slow seepage of fluid retracts the caliper piston and makes for excessive travel... Do you see or hear the air when you bleed it?

Most definitely air bubbles.  Also to add more mystery, my bike was never stored.  Ridden all year round and almost daily.  It just happened, no rhyme or reason to it.

Tim

[Tusayan]

Yes mate it's ok... really. I broke one off on a GT 380 in 1977. Made a dogs breakfast of the repair back then. Done it since ok though.

No bleed nipples were broken on the Ducati, it was not an issue.

Most definitely air bubbles.  Also to add more mystery, my bike was never stored.  Ridden all year round and almost daily.  It just happened, no rhyme or reason to it.

Interesting.  I had previously understood that the issue was common to 916-998 style bikes (only), after storage.  You live and learn.

This reminds me of the 1996-98 Guzzi master cylinders, supplied by Brembo, that had inconsistent level travel and feel.   Meanwhile Ducatis with Brembo master cylinders had no such problem.  I'm not that impressed with Brembo engineering, despite their reputation.  That problem was only fixed on Guzzis when the V11 Sport came out.

[Rough Edge racing]

Most definitely air bubbles.  Also to add more mystery, my bike was never stored.  Ridden all year round and almost daily.  It just happened, no rhyme or reason to it.

Tim

  Then you have air in the system, it's that simple...

[Muzz]

I think that this makes me glad that I own a Guzzi.

[timonbik]

  Then you have air in the system, it's that simple...

Then the million dollar question is: How is it entering the system?  If the seals or bleed nipple were leaking then surely there would be brake fluid loss, especially under pressure of braking.
Master cylinder reservoir was  always full.  I don't disagree that air was getting in but where?

Tim

[Chuck in Indiana]

At the end of the day, I suppose it's all relative anyway....with motorcycles and most FUN hobbies....and as the old saying goes:  "If you want to PLAY...then ya gotta PAY!!"  :1:

As far as vintage Ducati's, I always had a "Jones" for this one...

I had one for 15 years or so.. it was the best sounding motorcycle I've ever had with those Contis. Problem was, I was afraid to ride it any farther than I was willing to walk. 

[Rough Edge racing]

Then the million dollar question is: How is it entering the system?  If the seals or bleed nipple were leaking then surely there would be brake fluid loss, especially under pressure of braking.
Master cylinder reservoir was  always full.  I don't disagree that air was getting in but where?

Tim

  Are they conventional rubber brakes hoses or a hard plastic?  I have heard of air entering hoses without fluid leaking out....And moisture can pass through some hoses....

[timonbik]

Plastic coated braided stainless. OEM.  Never a problem on the front.  Only the rear.

Tim