Author Topic: Honda all in with auto trans bikes  (Read 5727 times)

Offline Rick in WNY

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2018, 08:18:14 AM »
I'm not sold on the newest auto transmission they have put in cars today. Had the "pleasure" of driving my brothers new Jeep with the 9 speed tranny.  What a pathetic excuse for an automatic gear changer! The stupid thing is always trying to get into a higher gear and is very reluctant to drop a gear when needed. The end result is that instead of just cruising along, when you get near a hill your choices become just sit there, let the car slow down, then it drops 3-4 gears, races the engine until you're at the top of the hill, where it rapidly shifts back up to 9th. About the time it settles back in, you're starting to climb another hill... JMHO, it would be a lot better off if the programmed the computer to drop one gear at a time and do it much sooner. The other option was to kick it into manual mode, which is what I ended up doing. Cruise along in 8th, get to a hill, drop it to 7th, the revs pick up maybe 3-400 rpms, and it just cruises on up the hill.

My point being, the machinery is capable of doing the job, the problem is the idiot programming in the brain box. Are they all like this today? I don't know, and now, I'm less inclined to find out now after driving one. Think I'll stick to vehicles with a clutch, thank you very much.
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Offline GearheadGrrrl

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2018, 08:44:52 AM »
The good DCT "automatics" are like having your cake and eating it too- Shift it yourself with the lever or automatic or put it in "D" and forget about it. I've had two VW Group cars with DCTs now and the only downside is the hassle of fluid changes every 40k miles and lack of a tow rating in the north american market. As I close on 70 years old and realize all it takes is a busted wrist or leg and I won't be able to ride or drive, all my future vehicles will have automatics and 3 or more wheels.
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Offline sliphorn

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2018, 11:55:52 AM »
Unless you are one of those weirdo's that never leave the city, most motorcycles spend most of their riding time in top gear so how it got there is not that cosmic.

DCT once you get used to it and trust it (a lot of people it seems either do not understand what it is (not an automatic, not a scooter or can not think beyond a conventional foot shift transmission)

To get the most from a DCT you need to forget what you think you knew, the internet is full of stories of folk who never rode one but love to tell the uninformed how bad they are.
Yer those DCT automatic scooter bikes with the torque converter CTV.

I can tell you from real world experience, when you put the DCT hammer down and start tapping those paddles, a manual version is as exciting as a wet noodle.
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=======
^^^^
This.

I've got 14K miles on my Honda NC700DCT and it is the best damn thing to come along in a long time. The way I think of a DCT is that it is a manual transmission with  automated clutches. You can intervene and override the system at any time using the paddle shifters. I do that frequently when in automatic sport mode and I am riding the twisties. Upon entering a hard turn and the trans has not down shifted to my liking, no problem, thumb it down and it instantly downshifts without any chassis upset whatsoever. It is not humanly possible to shift a manual trans as quickly or as smoothly as the DCT in my NC700. And if it holds on to a lower gear for longer than I care for, same thing, paddle up, and bammo, away you go in the next higher gear.

The system learns via your throttle input. It has actually made me a more involved and better rider. Better as in smoother and quicker. I feel as if I am more engaged in the ride than I ever did on my manual shift bikes. And like most of us here, I've had plenty of those over the years. A DCT is actually a thinking mans transmission because there is a learning curve to get the most out of them. I'd think that a real gear head type would love a DCT if they are willing to give them a chance. A 10 minute test ride is not enough. No way no how!

One of my favorite aspects to the DCT in my NC is when it comes to overtaking. We've all had to drone for miles and miles when on a long trip and it is inevitable that the need to overtake comes sooner or later on 2 lane US and state routes. Twist the throttle, and depending on how far you twist it and your current speed, it will instantly, and I mean instantly, downshift one or two gears and away you go...........Bammo, No Problemo.........I love my DCT.

Oh, and how could I forget. You can also put it in manual mode and do all the shifting yourself with the paddles.

Offline inditx

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2018, 12:15:24 PM »
Well said sliphorn!  :thumb:
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2018, 12:15:24 PM »

Online twowheeladdict

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2018, 12:24:38 PM »
I'm not sold on the newest auto transmission they have put in cars today. Had the "pleasure" of driving my brothers new Jeep with the 9 speed tranny.  What a pathetic excuse for an automatic gear changer! The stupid thing is always trying to get into a higher gear and is very reluctant to drop a gear when needed. The end result is that instead of just cruising along, when you get near a hill your choices become just sit there, let the car slow down, then it drops 3-4 gears, races the engine until you're at the top of the hill, where it rapidly shifts back up to 9th. About the time it settles back in, you're starting to climb another hill... JMHO, it would be a lot better off if the programmed the computer to drop one gear at a time and do it much sooner. The other option was to kick it into manual mode, which is what I ended up doing. Cruise along in 8th, get to a hill, drop it to 7th, the revs pick up maybe 3-400 rpms, and it just cruises on up the hill.

My point being, the machinery is capable of doing the job, the problem is the idiot programming in the brain box. Are they all like this today? I don't know, and now, I'm less inclined to find out now after driving one. Think I'll stick to vehicles with a clutch, thank you very much.

Try driving an automatic Camaro 2SS through the curves.  It never knows what gear to be in when navigating and accelerating out of the curve.  It just ruins the driving experience.
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Offline oilhed

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2018, 12:37:33 PM »
I just like shifting.  But, I could do without the manual clutch.  But I like the stick in a car and the foot shifter on a bike.  No paddles for me!  Nothing about performance, just being engaged.
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Offline sliphorn

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2018, 01:56:58 PM »
I just like shifting.  But, I could do without the manual clutch.  But I like the stick in a car and the foot shifter on a bike.  No paddles for me!  Nothing about performance, just being engaged.
----------

I like shifting too. Paddles on a DCT are fun, and a foot shifter is offered as an option; either one leaves you very engaged. Trust me on this. After 14K on my NC700DCT there is no lack of engagement. None! Another advantage of a DCT is slow moving traffic. Man, does that suck with a traditional clutch set up. Not so with the DCT. It'll poke along right in the friction zone without a single shudder or hiccup. Brilliant!

======

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2018, 02:33:08 PM »
Another option if someone wants to convert an existing bike to an automatic clutch, is a "Rekluse clutch". Not available for all bikes, but I have ridden a couple with them,  and they work very well.
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 02:34:33 PM by bigbikerrick »
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Offline JohninVT

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2018, 05:16:30 PM »
I enjoy the craft of riding.  I work on it every time I go for a spin.  Shifting is part of the craft.

Having said that, I also enjoy tootling along on a Honda Passport or CT90 with a semi auto and getting lost within 10 miles of the house because I've wandered down a road or trail I've never seen before on my other bikes while I was busy practicing my "craft" at 80mph.   

Converts are cool.  Africa Twins are cool.  I even liked the Mana despite it being a flash in the pan.  The Mana was about 5 years too early to sell well.  I don't see the problem with anyone liking one or the other.  DCT is fun.  A CVT scooter is fun.  Shifting is fun.   

Offline sliphorn

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2018, 06:32:19 PM »
I enjoy the craft of riding.  I work on it every time I go for a spin.  Shifting is part of the craft.

Having said that, I also enjoy tootling along on a Honda Passport or CT90 with a semi auto and getting lost within 10 miles of the house because I've wandered down a road or trail I've never seen before on my other bikes while I was busy practicing my "craft" at 80mph.   

Converts are cool.  Africa Twins are cool.  I even liked the Mana despite it being a flash in the pan.  The Mana was about 5 years too early to sell well.  I don't see the problem with anyone liking one or the other.  DCT is fun.  A CVT scooter is fun.  Shifting is fun.   
======

You're right. They're all fun. My other two wheeler is a 2013 Piaggio BV350 scooter, and it's fun too, just a different kind.

-----------

Offline jbell

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2018, 06:41:09 PM »
Yeah, as soon as those Moto GP bikes get rid of shift assist, auto blipping and down shift control they'll be back in control and really be able to go fast.
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2018, 07:10:22 PM »
----------

I like shifting too. Paddles on a DCT are fun, and a foot shifter is offered as an option; either one leaves you very engaged. Trust me on this. After 14K on my NC700DCT there is no lack of engagement. None! Another advantage of a DCT is slow moving traffic. Man, does that suck with a traditional clutch set up. Not so with the DCT. It'll poke along right in the friction zone without a single shudder or hiccup. Brilliant!

======

Why would you ride in slow moving traffic?  That is what filtering or sedans with AC and stereos are for.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2018, 07:14:58 PM »
Why would you ride in slow moving traffic?  That is what filtering or sedans with AC and stereos are for.

"Filtering" isn't legal everywhere...
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Offline inditx

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2018, 07:42:46 PM »
Another option if someone wants to convert an existing bike to an automatic clutch, is a "Rekluse clutch". Not available for all bikes, but I have ridden a couple with them,  and they work very well.
Rick.

https://rekluse.com/

Cool, thanks for that!
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Offline jas67

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2018, 08:16:23 PM »
Yeah, as soon as those Moto GP bikes get rid of shift assist, auto blipping and down shift control they'll be back in control and really be able to go fast.

I rather enjoy the engagement of shifting and clutching on the road, but, have to admit to having installed a quick shifter on the my track bike (up shift only, no blipper for down shift, that's not anywhere near as easy to add to an old-school bike w/o throttle by wire).

The quick shifter is not only quicker, but, allows you to up shift while the bike is still leaned over w/o upsetting the chassis.

Full throttle upshifts with a 60ms ignition kill sound really cool through the Termi exhaust too.   :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 08:17:17 PM by jas67 »
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2018, 08:45:22 PM »
"Filtering" isn't legal everywhere...

That's why I added the car with ac and stereo.   I dont see any point riding in traffic.

 I have added 2 hours to a ride avoiding potential traffic.  I would rather be moving when on a bike.
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Offline sliphorn

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2018, 07:47:52 AM »
Why would you ride in slow moving traffic?  That is what filtering or sedans with AC and stereos are for.
-----------

I don't want to ride in slow moving traffic............ BUT................ .

Sometimes slow moving traffic happens when you least expect it, and filtering is not legal in most of the USA. Road construction, accidents, etcetera. Such is life, eh?

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Online Perazzimx14

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2018, 08:23:01 AM »
That's why I added the car with ac and stereo.   I dont see any point riding in traffic.

 I have added 2 hours to a ride avoiding potential traffic.  I would rather be moving when on a bike.

Can you predict what the weather will be  as well?

I've been on desolate sections of roads like SR16 around War WV where its rare to see a vehicle in a 30 miles section. I've also sat in traffic on the  same section of road for 2+ hours because a mining company was moving a monumental sized dump truck wider than the road on a tractor trailer around decreasing radius mountainous curves.

Sometimes its just unavoidable.
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2018, 08:32:11 AM »
-----------

I don't want to ride in slow moving traffic............ BUT................ .

Sometimes slow moving traffic happens when you least expect it, and filtering is not legal in most of the USA. Road construction, accidents, etcetera. Such is life, eh?

======

I detour, turn around, pull into a restaurant, or get a hotel.  There is nowhere I need to be that forces me to sit in traffic while on a motorcycle.  If I think I can get away with filtering, I will do that as well as riding down the shoulder.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:33:04 AM by twowheeladdict »
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2018, 08:34:58 AM »
Can you predict what the weather will be  as well?

I've been on desolate sections of roads like SR16 around War WV where its rare to see a vehicle in a 30 miles section. I've also sat in traffic on the  same section of road for 2+ hours because a mining company was moving a monumental sized dump truck wider than the road on a tractor trailer around decreasing radius mountainous curves.

Sometimes its just unavoidable.

I have full Gore-Tex gear and actually enjoy riding in the rain.  It provides a different riding experience.  Now lightning is another matter because my BIL got killed by lightning.  I will pull over and get a coffee/snack until the lightning passes.
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Offline Toecutter

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2018, 08:40:50 AM »
I detour, turn around, pull into a restaurant, or get a hotel.  There is nowhere I need to be that forces me to sit in traffic while on a motorcycle.  If I think I can get away with filtering, I will do that as well as riding down the shoulder.

Roadwork in the mountains on a holiday weekend.

Traveling through Banff/Jasper/Lake Louise on a fall day... behind an endless line of german tourists in rented RVs, as a similar line travels towards  you in the other lane.

Commuting to work.

Roadwork in the middle of a prairie highway, waiting for the light to change and the chase truck to start moving.

Stuck behind a wideload, that covers both lanes and forces traffic into the ditch as it passes.

I could go on, but there are a hell of a lot of times I've been stuck in slow-moving/ stop and go traffic where turning around or finding a restaurant or hotel simply aren't options.
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2018, 09:02:07 AM »
Roadwork in the mountains on a holiday weekend.

Traveling through Banff/Jasper/Lake Louise on a fall day... behind an endless line of german tourists in rented RVs, as a similar line travels towards  you in the other lane.   That is slow moving, not stop and go where an automatic would shine.

Commuting to work. I have a 29 mile commute with one stop sign and 3 traffic lights and no interstate.  I go in at 6:00AM and off at 2:30PM.  No traffic.

Roadwork in the middle of a prairie highway, waiting for the light to change and the chase truck to start moving.   I have experienced that, but then again that is just shut the bike off and wait.  Not stop and go.

Stuck behind a wideload, that covers both lanes and forces traffic into the ditch as it passes.  Been behind tractors that take up both lanes.  The very first turn I come to, I take and then find another route.  There is nowhere I need to be that requires me to stay in that situation. Also not a stop and go situation.

I could go on, but there are a hell of a lot of times I've been stuck in slow-moving/ stop and go traffic where turning around or finding a restaurant or hotel simply aren't options. I don't mind slow moving.  Stop and go or stopped for hours because of a wreck can and does cause me to turn around and maybe just find somewhere else to ride.  Not having a fixed agenda or hotel reservations you have to meet makes riding flexible and more enjoyable.


You would be amazed how many country roads there are around the country and if you plan the time of day you are on the roadways how few cars you can actually encounter.   I also plan my crossings of major interstates where there are no on/off ramps.  Reduces traffic to none.  It did take careful planning when touring the southern New England states.
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Offline Toecutter

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2018, 09:23:33 AM »

You would be amazed how many country roads there are around the country and if you plan the time of day you are on the roadways how few cars you can actually encounter.   I also plan my crossings of major interstates where there are no on/off ramps.  Reduces traffic to none.  It did take careful planning when touring the southern New England states.

hey, I'm not making any statements about where you live. I can tell you that for me to go west of here... I have two choices, unless I want to add 6 hours to the ride.

Crossing the mountains? Same deal... about three choices, and those choices are hours apart.

The U.S. is a far, far different beast than Canada when it comes to distance.
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Offline Furbo

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2018, 04:09:39 PM »
Honda,

Been a loyal customer for 4 decades  (learned to ride on a Mini Trail 50....sorta automatic).

But you're answering unasked questions. You've given us automatic bikes since the 70's (Hondamatic 750....we had a dude in Abilene TX that LOVED it...we rebuilt the dam engine TWICE he liked it so much - worked at local shop in college). But most US riders aren't interested.

Same can't be said for European and Asian markets, so...that's what drives it I  suppose.
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Offline jbell

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2018, 09:56:54 AM »
I rather enjoy the engagement of shifting and clutching on the road,

Me, too.  Though my next car will probably be auto for the first time in about 40 years. 
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:51:18 PM by guzzipete »

Offline jas67

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2018, 09:41:18 AM »
https://www.hotcars.com/2018-ford-mustang-gt-automatic-faster-manual/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ferrari-finished-with-manual-transmissions/

Yes, we all know automatics shift faster than a human shift a manual, that's no secrets.   Automatics have ruled the drag strips for years, at least for stock car classes.

I don't care.     TO ME, Manuals are more fun and more engaging to drive.
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2018, 09:50:59 AM »
This makes me long for the days of a good oil thread!
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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2018, 03:35:00 PM »
Back when I was toying with the idea of getting a Africa Twin it was going too be a manual for sure. But I noticed a used DCT on the dealer's floor with 400 miles. The price was too good to pass so I bought it knowing if I didn't like the DCT I could flip it and get most if not all of my money back. The short of it is I love riding this bike and if something happened to it today I'd immediately replace it with a new DCT AT........ as long as I have a manual shift bike in the garage as well, which I do.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Honda all in with auto trans bikes
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2018, 03:57:53 PM »
Come on guys,we are men.....fast forward 5:48 to see a real cigar smoking man shift a car.....

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai3cnc-77ZE

       Another one.....

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWo12CZwYtg

That's pretty cool but how about running an ol' Dee-troit Diesel? 

https://youtu.be/iU3gZGUInd4
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