Opinions on the new harley softails?

[twowheeladdict]

Speaking as a motorcycle lover of all the brands and have owned most of the popular ones, unfortunately my Guzzis is not in that class of being "popular":( I think I can identify the major divide between HD and most any of the other makes. For what ever reason, possibly the  lust for the Bad Boy image, most folks who ride and own a Harley tends to follow the cult of the Harley Davidson Motorcycle that includes the T shirts, leather jackets with all the patches, helmets with the insignias, etc. Also it seems necessary to take off perfectly effective quiet mufflers and add obnoxious loud pipes with the claim it adds HP, as well as other  attributes that tend to annoy other brand owners. However there are many of us guys and gals out here that own and have owned HD and never felt the need to advertise for the company nor follow that Biker image, I did not. My 1400 tourer is my ride of choice at this time in my ridding career and may possibly be my last. However if the feeling ever overcomes me to own another Harley I will do so unapologetically as it very well may be the best motorcycle on the face of the planet:)

This is where stereotypes come from.  Every motorcycle forum I go on takes about aftermarket pipes.  Harley doesnt own that conversation. 

Most motorcycle genres have their uniform whether we participate or not.  SS riders with their full leathers on the street.  BMW riders with their Aerostich, Klim or whatever ultra expensive gear is in favor at the time.  Goldwing riders with their embroidered satin jackets, open face helmets with boom mic. 

I think because Harly is the leader in sales far exceeding the others is what makes them a target.  The interesting thing is that bikers are some of the most charitable people as a group that I have ever met.

[twowheeladdict]

John - you make some very good points

But, have you ever really tried it?

I mean.... you might LIKE it !


And those Harley babes ???
How can you resist ???
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42-39-56 you could say she got it all!  Whole lots Rosie!

[Rough Edge racing]

 A proper two into one exhaust system can do a lot for a Harley as shown by the Sportster powered Buells. It can be loud enough to be noticed but not obnoxious. But most stick to the staggered duals and the awful agricultural noise...The stock duals with a crossover pipe are a bit better..

[Kev m]

I have stock exhaust systems on all 5 of our current bikes.

Even when I have run a slightly free'r flowing exhaust I normally kept it very mild. Like our Sportster used to run OEM mufflers for which I'd doubled the size of the holes in the baffle and added a few more rows, but kept the baffle plate intact. It wasn't even as loud as the "50 State Street Legal Screaming Eagle Accessory Exhaust". My Buell with their Racing SuperTrap was too loud for me even after I repacked the muffler and removed some discs. But it was making about 100 rwhp.

[Ncdan]

This is where stereotypes come from.  Every motorcycle forum I go on takes about aftermarket pipes.  Harley doesnt own that conversation. 

Most motorcycle genres have their uniform whether we participate or not.  SS riders with their full leathers on the street.  BMW riders with their Aerostich, Klim or whatever ultra expensive gear is in favor at the time.  Goldwing riders with their embroidered satin jackets, open face helmets with boom mic. 

I think because Harly is the leader in sales far exceeding the others is what makes them a target.  The interesting thing is that bikers are some of the most charitable people as a group that I have ever met.

My intentions were not to " stereotype " any brand however it's simply a fact that it's more common to see Harley's with after market, louder than factory, pipes and mufflers than any of the other brands.
Personally I could care less what types of pipes anyone spends their hard earned money on and if their choice meets the legal decibel requirements, then all the power to you;)

[oldbike54]

My intentions were not to " stereotype " any brand however it's simply a fact that it's more common to see a Harley's with after market, louder than factory, pipes and mufflers than any of the other brands.
Personally I could care less what types of pipes anyone spends their hard earned money on and if their choice meets the legal decibel requirements, then all the power to you;)

 Aftermarket devices of silencing (play on an old Bridgestone owner's manual) are fine , it's the open pipes that are just stupid .

 Dusty

[not-fishing]

Aftermarket devices of silencing (play on an old Bridgestone owner's manual) are fine , it's the open pipes that are just stupid .

 Dusty

Yeah, I live within a stones throw of a major road in Folsom and every day I hear a herd of Harleys.  Weekends are unbelievable.

[Kev m]

My intentions were not to " stereotype " any brand however it's simply a fact that it's more common to see Harley's with after market, louder than factory, pipes and mufflers than any of the other brands.

Depends on what you mean by that.

You see MORE Harleys than anything else on the road.

Therefore even if the same percentage of Harleys had louder pipes as any other brand, you'd still SEE MORE Harleys.

Now if you meant "you see a higher percentage of Harleys with louder pipes than...." I'm not sure it's completely defensible.

It might be, certainly it's more likely true when compared to say BMW....but I'm not sure how universally true it is.

That said, I do think you see more jit-bags with completely open pipes on Harley than anything else.

[Ncdan]

Depends on what you mean by that.

You see MORE Harleys than anything else on the road.

Therefore even if the same percentage of Harleys had louder pipes as any other brand, you'd still SEE MORE Harleys.

Now if you meant "you see a higher percentage of Harleys with louder pipes than...." I'm not sure it's completely defensible.

Yea my opinion was based on percentages of each brand. It unusual to see aftermarket pipes on the other brands, as a whole. Either way it's no big deal, like I said, each to his own as to their preference.
It might be, certainly it's more likely true when compared to say BMW....but I'm not sure how universally true it is.

That said, I do think you see more jit-bags with completely open pipes on Harley than anything else.

[larrys]

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Gals like that are warm in the winter and you get shade in the summer...
I've run my Cal to a few local biker bars. It gets more attention...
Larry

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

The old natural finish engine/trans AKA "Blonde" was my preference.   Unfortunately this plain Jane option is no longer available, probably due to limited sales/popularity.  In addition to being a bit less expensive they were much easier to keep clean.  If there was a 2019 Heritage model with "blonde" running gear and cast wheels I'd go test ride one.  Less threat to my $-flow they don't exist.   

[Ncdan]

Aftermarket devices of silencing (play on an old Bridgestone owner's manual) are fine , it's the open pipes that are just stupid .

 Dusty

I totally agree Dusty, heck, I'd like to get a little more rumble from my 1400 but I'm not willing to spend that much money for the after markets available silencers, I have considered punching a hole in the baffles for a little more tone. As far as the "straight pipe " issue, some of these mufflers can be almost as loud As straight pipes are, in other words  obnoxiously LOUD.

[kballowe]

I have Vance & Hines slip-on mufflers on a Heritage Softail.  They have the "quiet baffles" and I also gave them about six turns with fiberglass cloth - but they're still not quiet !

 

Had a Cobra slip-on on a Honda VTX1800 and it sounded like a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower with the muffler cut off of it - and so the factory muffler went back on.

[Ncdan]

I have Vance & Hines slip-on mufflers on a Heritage Softail.  They have the "quiet baffles" and I also gave them about six turns with fiberglass cloth - but they're still not quiet !

 

Had a Cobra slip-on on a Honda VTX1800 and it sounded like a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower with the muffler cut off of it - and so the factory muffler went back on.

I hear ya Kev. I had a Super Glide that had Vance and Hines when I got it. About every couple months I had to replace the fiberglass packing and even then it was to loud for my liking. It was a MUST WEAR EARPLUGS moment while riding it.

[bad Chad]

I get tired of the way overly loud Harleys like most of us, but the absolute worst sound is from various Asian twins running open pipes,  they can make me spontaneously vomit in mere seconds!😁

[Ncdan]

I get tired of the way overly loud Harleys like most of us, but the absolute worst sound is from various Asian twins running open pipes,  they can make me spontaneously vomit in mere seconds!😁

Description was a little descriptive but accurate🤮 😂

[twowheeladdict]

My intentions were not to " stereotype " any brand however it's simply a fact that it's more common to see Harley's with after market, louder than factory, pipes and mufflers than any of the other brands.
Personally I could care less what types of pipes anyone spends their hard earned money on and if their choice meets the legal decibel requirements, then all the power to you;)

What pipe do I put on my bike is the most asked question on sport bike forums.

I will say though that the sport bike dealers dont push replacement pipes like Harley dealers do.  They say you need stage 1 to get the bike the way it was intended before the environmental groups clamped down on emissions.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I live on a rural road with the properties spread out...Down the road about 1000 feet is a 50 something guy who owns several open pipe Harleys and his son has an open pipe Victory..He's a really nice guy I enjoy talking to him but on the bikes he like a 16 old on a two stoke, constantly blips the throttle..I mean for it's unreal...Then he usually heads past my house ,the road is uphill so the engine makes even more noise as he blasts by with the little helmet on the back of his head ....Talk about a stereotype..I I find it interesting like a small town carnival...
  I have two Ducatis, both came with aftermarket mufflers..I have a 79 Triumph with a modified exhaust...They sound quite acceptable compared loud Harleys..
  With the possibility of a growing  green movement pushing electric vehicles, noisy bikes and cars will attract unwanted attention from those who would like to see them banned from the road...

[twowheeladdict]

I live on a rural road with the properties spread out...Down the road about 1000 feet is a 50 something guy who owns several open pipe Harleys and his son has an open pipe Victory..He's a really nice guy I enjoy talking to him but on the bikes he like a 16 old on a two stoke, constantly blips the throttle..I mean for it's unreal...Then he usually heads past my house ,the road is uphill so the engine makes even more noise as he blasts by with the little helmet on the back of his head ....Talk about a stereotype..I I find it interesting like a small town carnival...
  I have two Ducatis, both came with aftermarket mufflers..I have a 79 Triumph with a modified exhaust...They sound quite acceptable compared loud Harleys..
  With the possibility of a growing  green movement pushing electric vehicles, noisy bikes and cars will attract unwanted attention from those who would like to see them banned from the road...

When you can't tell if it is an old Volkswagen Beetle, a pickup with a exhaust leak, or a Harley then you know they didn't bother putting a tuned exhaust on the bike. 

I will never understand open pipes on any vehicle.  A nicely tuned exhaust on a large displacement engine puts out a nice deep bass sound and is music to my ears.  I would rather hear that than the 600cc I-4 racer wannabees with their angry mosquito exhausts or the Ricer Racer Civics with their fart cans.

[kirby1923]

I offer this as to why the HD riders like to "blip".

The sounds that emanate from the 90 deg firing order of the 45 deg cylinder spacing has a special cadence that is addicting.

Its so unique and desirable to some that the Motor Co. tried at one time to either paten or get a trade mark for same.

They failed because it was determined that the Motor Company's was not the first to use such configuration therefore couldn't claim it as proprietary.

Harley riders (some?) can't help themselves, they have to hear that thing roar, and to some? the louder the better. Its like a right of passage, tells all that your on the real deal.

Engineering wise its not a very good configuration for any piston engine but its become what identifies a Harley Davidson. I actually like the way the power goes down on the HD its like a super single but have trouble getting around the mechanical madness.

To my knowledge there has never been a real successful (any?) HD without that cylinder spacing and timing.

Sells allot of machines.

Or not?

:-)

[Kev m]

The blip had a purpose.

The narrow shared intake manifold and staggered timing played hell with the idle air:fuel mixture on carbureted Harleys, especially as more and more emissions restrictions were placed on the carb settings.

Sometimes at idle the carbs would load up, backfire, and stumble as you opened the throttle and started to put a load on the motor with the clutch. It could even cut the motor sometimes.

If you instead blipped it once or twice to clear it you could then smoothly apply it as you slipped the clutch and pulled away.

As EFI was introduced this was eliminated, but I think some continued it out of habit, others out of conscious or subconscious imitation, and the rest cause they just liked the sound of their obnoxiously loud exhaust.

I confess I probably still do it as I pull away from stops even if the last carb'd Harley I owned was more than a decade ago. But as I said previously I have nothing but stock exhausts and I doubt anyone really notices.

Oh, and I guess I use it to signal a riding partner that I'm about to pull out from a stop or shoot a gap.

[tazio]

Blip? ..or is it blap? Lol
I would have my bike out and my Harley buddy would show up and say "Let's go blapping".
He really got off on blapping through tunnels.
If he forget to blip/blap leaving a stop sign and stalled, I was there to yell "FLAME OUT!"
Pissed him off no end.

[twowheeladdict]

The blip had a purpose.

The narrow shared intake manifold and staggered timing played hell with the idle air:fuel mixture on carbureted Harleys, especially as more and more emissions restrictions were placed on the carb settings.

Sometimes at idle the carbs would load up, backfire, and stumble as you opened the throttle and started to put a load on the motor with the clutch. It could even cut the motor sometimes.

If you instead blipped it once or twice to clear it you could then smoothly apply it as you slipped the clutch and pulled away.

As EFI was introduced this was eliminated, but I think some continued it out of habit, others out of conscious or subconscious imitation, and the rest cause they just liked the sound of their obnoxiously loud exhaust.

I confess I probably still do it as I pull away from stops even if the last carb'd Harley I owned was more than a decade ago. But as I said previously I have nothing but stock exhausts and I doubt anyone really notices.

Oh, and I guess I use it to signal a riding partner that I'm about to pull out from a stop or shoot a gap.

Interesting explanation.  I have never blipped a throttle, but I thought it was because of the cam change that so many do that causes it to want to stumble off idle, coupled with the extra low idle setting some think sounds cool.

[Gliderjohn]

My T-3 is semi-loud in a good way with Dunstall replica mufflers. With it being a Guzzi and stopped at a stoplight I swear I get looks at times that convey amazement that I am just sitting there smoothly idling. I have seen kids that see me coming and cover their ears and as I get closer they drop their hands instead with a wave and a smile.
GliderJohn

[Kev m]

Interesting explanation.  I have never blipped a throttle, but I thought it was because of the cam change that so many do that causes it to want to stumble off idle, coupled with the extra low idle setting some think sounds cool.

That makes it worse.

You ever hear me tell the story about the Weber-Marelli engineers when the developed the first person OEM EFI system for Harley.

They showed off the first running mule to Harley waiting for praise and instead were told it sounded wrong. Basically it idled properly (smoothly without miss).

They were told to go back and make it sound like a Harley. So they performed studies on carbed models and realized that to make it sound the same they'd need program in random misses and stumbles because of what I described earlier (that's where I first learned of it).

They told Harley no.

My 96 WM EFI RK idled completely smoothly. It was wonderful, but I won't lie, it did take some time before I got used to the sound/feel.

[twowheeladdict]

That makes it worse.

You ever hear me tell the story about the Weber-Marelli engineers when the developed the first person OEM EFI system for Harley.

They showed off the first running mule to Harley waiting for praise and instead were told it sounded wrong. Basically it idled properly (smoothly without miss).

They were told to go back and make it sound like a Harley. So they performed studies on carbed models and realized that to make it sound the same they'd need program in random misses and stumbles because of what I described earlier (that's where I first learned of it).

They told Harley no.

My 96 WM EFI RK idled completely smoothly. It was wonderful, but I won't lie, it did take some time before I got used to the sound/feel.

This explanation reminds me of Honda's progression in the V-twin marketplace. 

Honda had "cruiser-style" bikes with different engine configurations but in the early 80s they came out with their V-twin bikes.  I owned an '85 Honda Shadow 700 and it was an amazing motorcycle for the time.

It had shaft final drive, mag wheels and fat rear tire, super smooth twin with 2 spark plugs and 3 valves per cyclinder.  It also had a 6 speed transmission and dual disks up front.    I bought mine brand new for $2500. 

Honda couldn't figure out why they weren't gaining on Harley with such a nice cruiser offering.

Each new generation of the shadow tried to be more like Harley.  They purposely added in vibration.  They eventually went down to a 4-speed transmission.  They even ended up going with a single pin crank to try and get the Harley sound. 

[Kev m]

I remember a review of the Honda Shadow Ace (American Classic Edition) where the reviewer said Honda finally built a Harley, and the Harley at the time was a "better" bike (judged by the usual objective and subjective measures).

[Rough Edge racing]

The blip had a purpose.

The narrow shared intake manifold and staggered timing played hell with the idle air:fuel mixture on carbureted Harleys, especially as more and more emissions restrictions were placed on the carb settings.

Sometimes at idle the carbs would load up, backfire, and stumble as you opened the throttle and started to put a load on the motor with the clutch. It could even cut the motor sometimes.

If you instead blipped it once or twice to clear it you could then smoothly apply it as you slipped the clutch and pulled away.

As EFI was introduced this was eliminated, but I think some continued it out of habit, others out of conscious or subconscious imitation, and the rest cause they just liked the sound of their obnoxiously loud exhaust.

I confess I probably still do it as I pull away from stops even if the last carb'd Harley I owned was more than a decade ago. But as I said previously I have nothing but stock exhausts and I doubt anyone really notices.

Oh, and I guess I use it to signal a riding partner that I'm about to pull out from a stop or shoot a gap.

 Some say it's a temporary lean condition which almost always sneezes through the carburetor.I do remember the fuel injection story ...I do it on bikes and our jeeps/trucks, all standard shifts..I don't rev it so much as a single slight increase of a few hundred RPM and let it drop down before engaging the clutch..I only do it when waiting in traffic especially on a grade...Left over habit from years of driving junker manual shift vehicles that stumbled off idle.. And of course kick start only Triumphs ....

[JeffOlson]

I love the sound of louder pipes (not too loud, but louder than quiet). I want to hear the exhaust when I am riding, not just wind noise and the tires of other vehicles.

On both of my Norges, I threw away the stock silencers and added Italian cans (Agostini and Mistral). What a glorious sound!

If I had a H-D like the one below, I would want to hear (and feel) the exhaust:



Someday, when everything is electric, I will miss the sound of internal combustion...

[wittangamo]

I’ve been truly surprised at how quiet my Sport Glide is with the stock 2-into-1 exhaust. It makes less noise at idle than the Agostinis on my V9! The 107 cubic inch M8 rumbles when accelerating, but merely purrs at cruising speed.

It’s true that a lot of old school Harley guys believe loud pipes save lives. I personally think it’s more a part of the ape-hangers and half-helmet outlaw image they buy into.

As for the MoCo itself, the EPA came down hard on the practice of selling factory options that bypass noise and pollution restrictions. Screamin’ Eagle performance parts are now all 49 or 50 state compliant, and the warranty is void if you remove the cats or use a non-factory tuner.

The sound is part of the attraction for some riders, and many still slap on straight pipes even if it reduces performance. But then, those same guys like to wear stuff with skulls and flames on it and shun protective gear.

You can’t really blame the bikes for that.