Goodbye goose hello Triumph

[Guzzistajohn]

All the cool cats ride dual sport! Chain drive? No biggie! I switched to a dry chain lube made by 3M. Everything stays super clean and runs completely silent. 

[moto-uno]

  WD 40 is a great chain cleaner but a terrible chain lube , that kind of mileage is probably more to do with keeping the chain
so clean .But hey, it's your bike, and it worked for you :) . And for heavens sake , just how busy are we retired riders that oiling
a chain is so much work !!!!  , Peter

[faffi]

I learned to use WD40 this way from a bloke who got 77,000 km out of his chain and sprocket on his ZX-11, that he also drag raced. The important lube is the one sealed off by the O or X-rings, not what is put on the outside. Cleanliness is important, though.

[Vagrant]

FWIW, I started using a gallon of WD40 in a spray bottle on a DID cheaper O ring chain 4000 miles ago on a 650 Versys. I do it every night when I get home. Usually about 150 miles. 200 is the max. It is keeping the chain clean. The side plates still are wet at 150 but close to dry at 200. I quit wiping it off as there is almost no spray off. Any over spray comes right off  the wheel. But, I think if I had to ride in the rain I'd have to stop every 50 miles.

[dave1068]

Interesting chain maintainence info, never heard of dry chain lube, As many suggestions like an oil thread lol  Ive heard one school of thought that sayd clean the chain w/ wd-40 or light break cleaner and then either: A; leave it at that and don't lube it, B: Use chain wax, C: Use chain lube, D: use WD-40 E: Use white grease.

decisions decisions

[faffi]

FWIW, I started using a gallon of WD40 in a spray bottle on a DID cheaper O ring chain 4000 miles ago on a 650 Versys. I do it every night when I get home. Usually about 150 miles. 200 is the max. It is keeping the chain clean. The side plates still are wet at 150 but close to dry at 200. I quit wiping it off as there is almost no spray off. Any over spray comes right off  the wheel. But, I think if I had to ride in the rain I'd have to stop every 50 miles.

A decade ago, I had a KZ650 and my son a CB400SS. On a vacation ride over more than 1100 miles, 400 of those in rain, we never lubed the chains. We used WD40 before and after the vacation ride. When I sold the KZ650 with nearly 18K miles on the chain and sprockets, they were still fine. On the CB400, the (too) cheap chain got some stiff links after 15K and was replaced. The second chain was still as new after 10K.

FWIW, my cousin rides mostly on gravel roads, and never lube his chains at all, only use degreaser and water after every ride, and then wipe it off with a dry rag. He has done this with his XR650R, 500-EXC, 950SE and his two 1250 Adventure Rs. Typically, he gets 10+ K miles from a set of chain and sprockets.

[Cam3512]

You’ll be back.  They all do…

[Dave Swanson]

You’ll be back.  They all do…

 

[rocker59]

FWIW, my cousin rides mostly on gravel roads, and never lube his chains at all, only use degreaser and water after every ride, and then wipe it off with a dry rag. He has done this with his XR650R, 500-EXC, 950SE and his two 1250 Adventure Rs. Typically, he gets 10+ K miles from a set of chain and sprockets.

I got 20,000 miles on Triumphs in the '90s/'00s using WD40 and gear oil every now and then...

[Moparnut72]

Project Farm on utube did extensive testing on chain lubes. Gear oil came out pretty much at the top. It would have come out first except for the flinging off if I remember correctly, it has been awhile since I have seen it. It is what I used. When I installed the belt I was appalled at the amount of goo and crap behind the counter sprocket cover.
kk

[Seventy One]

I got 48k miles on the stock chain on my '16 Versys 1000LT. I adjusted it once from new and it was still in spec when I changed it. I only changed it because I had the chain/sprockets and the time. As far as maintenance goes, I just brushed it off with diesel once/month and never really lubed it. I just hit it with a shot of chain wax after each cleaning. The goal is to keep it from getting rusty. That's it. They don't require "lube".

I hope you have better luck with your Triumph than I had with mine. I'll certainly never own another one.

[adventurelounger]

Interesting thread. I went in the opposite direction!

I have a 2020 Scrambler 1200 XE that I've enjoyed...but despite trying to make it function like my primary ADV bike, it just didn't swing it. Brilliant engine. Superb suspension (those Ohlins!) But with the high exhaust limiting me to one bag...and even with the tail rack and a higher aftermarket windscreen, it's still more of a giant naked high-performance dirt bike. I've tried motocamping and some distance travel with it...but it's just not purpose built for that, to me at least.

So I've put the Scrambler up for sale on ADVRider (in the fleamarket), and picked up a beautiful, fully-kitted-out V85TT Guardia d'Onore at the end of last year. Yes, it's slower. Yes, it's likely not as good off road. But to me, it's ridiculously comfortable, is set up to carry and travel out the gate, and has everything I want on a proper ADV bike. Plus all that delicious Guzzi history and character.

[Dirk_S]

Interesting thread. I went in the opposite direction!

I have a 2020 Scrambler 1200 XE that I've enjoyed...but despite trying to make it function like my primary ADV bike, it just didn't swing it. Brilliant engine. Superb suspension (those Ohlins!) But with the high exhaust limiting me to one bag...and even with the tail rack and a higher aftermarket windscreen, it's still more of a giant naked high-performance dirt bike. I've tried motocamping and some distance travel with it...but it's just not purpose built for that, to me at least.

So I've put the Scrambler up for sale on ADVRider (in the fleamarket), and picked up a beautiful, fully-kitted-out V85TT Guardia d'Onore at the end of last year. Yes, it's slower. Yes, it's likely not as good off road. But to me, it's ridiculously comfortable, is set up to carry and travel out the gate, and has everything I want on a proper ADV bike. Plus all that delicious Guzzi history and character.

Curious—if missing the right side pannier rack is all that was keeping you from enjoying the Scrambler to the max, why didn’t you consider modifying a pannier rack to fit over the exhaust? That’s what Bulldog and I did with our respective V7 IIs with high pipes. For mine, it required a couple spacers at the shock mount, a bend at the bottom pillion peg mount, and a slight chop and weld in the rear:




One thing I learned while traveling through Spain and Turkey on motorbike is that there’s always a welder in sniffing distance. Or at least a buddy with a MIG machine sitting in his garage. Might not be as cheap as over there (the mechanic that this old fart in Turkey led me to charged me a ridiculously low price to weld a mount back onto my buddy’s hard pannier), but it’s still a fairly doable modification.

[adventurelounger]

Part of it was the luggage. But it was also the lack of wind/weather protection and the general manners of the 1200 XE. It's a SUPERB bike for scrambling and hooning around once you get to your destination. It's stupendous off road.

But if you have several hours of slab before that...or you want to use it as a dedicated traveling bike...it's not ideal. Tall, exposed, and the luggage carrying capacity is limited. Finally, it has a manageable but very pronounced heat issue with the high pipe exhaust. The 1200 Scrambler is well known as a leg- and luggage broiler. So I'd be reluctant to mount a bag on the side with the exhaust, as I wouldn't want to melt or cook my right side bag!

[Dave Swanson]

Part of it was the luggage. But it was also the lack of wind/weather protection and the general manners of the 1200 XE. It's a SUPERB bike for scrambling and hooning around once you get to your destination. It's stupendous off road.

But if you have several hours of slab before that...or you want to use it as a dedicated traveling bike...it's not ideal. Tall, exposed, and the luggage carrying capacity is limited. Finally, it has a manageable but very pronounced heat issue with the high pipe exhaust. The 1200 Scrambler is well known as a leg- and luggage broiler. So I'd be reluctant to mount a bag on the side with the exhaust, as I wouldn't want to melt or cook my right side bag!

The riding buddy I ride with the most is in the same frame of mind as you with his XE.  He loves hooning around on it, the motor, and suspension.  It appeals to the hooligan side of him a lot.  But when being a hooligan is not in the cards he finds it limiting.  Using it as an ADV or a sport touring mount is less than ideal.  Which is no surprise.  It is not being marketed or designed to compete in either category. 

His XE is going up for sale soon.  He is trying to figure out what to get next.  It will have to be something that will be fast enough for him, but more usable for some of the trips he has in mind.  But I wouldn't be surprised if he ditches all that and comes home with a Tuono.   

[kidsmoke]

His XE is going up for sale soon.  He is trying to figure out what to get next.  It will have to be something that will be fast enough for him, but more usable for some of the trips he has in mind.  But I wouldn't be surprised if he ditches all that and comes home with a Tuono.   

Not a V100S?

[Dave Swanson]

Not a V100S?

The V100S gets him closer to owning a Guzzi than he ever has been, but he doesn't have a single pair of red suspenders, so it may be awhile yet. 

[rocker59]

  he doesn't have a single pair of red suspenders, so it may be awhile yet.

A good friend would hook him up!   

You should pick up a pair and gift them to him next time you go on a ride.

Let him know the gift requires him to buy a new V100 Mandello or Stelvio...

[TurcoLoco]

Congrats on the new bike Dave. Really nice looking bike, love the styling!
I always had a soft spot for the Triumphs and actually came really close to pulling the trigger on a 2017 Bobber but due to ergonomics and suspension I changed my mind.
Always like the ergonomics of the dual-sport/sports touring bikes the best but almost always had a cruiser as my second bike and for weekends.

I agree with the Huzo, belts are probably best only on cruisers at best. I prefer and love shaft drive bikes but am OK with the chain, too

[SmithSwede]

Congrats on the new Triumph! Neat bike.

And no need to apologize.   I love Guzzis, but am currently on a Kawasaki Z900 Cafe.   

[SmithSwede]

Once again, I salute Huzo for his keen observations and for sharing my motorcycle prejudices.  I admit—I negatively judge people who have nasty, dry, un-lubed chains.

Conversely, I’m already favorably inclined towards anyone I encounter with a nicely maintained, slightly slick & oiled chain.  Adjusted a bit on the slack side, but not too slack. 

Frankly, I award bonus points to those who don’t really care if there is a bit of lube accumulating in the vicinity of the chain. That’s the sign of a happy machine—I think it’s a good look.   A motorcycle isn’t supposed to look like a medical device sitting in the surgery suite of a hospital. 

And I’ll confess.  I love the smell of 90 weight gear oil. My chain lube of choice, applied with a 1” paint brush.  I’ve loved that unmistakeable smell ever since I was a kid, walking into a shed with serious, no-joke machines like tractors.  To me, the sulphrous aroma of gear oil signals the presence of honest, hardworking machines, and ones who are being maintained to last decades.   

I’m at 42,000 miles on my chain drive 2019 Kawasaki K900 Cafe.  I’ve got a chain wear gauge, and I’m still showing only a tad more than zero % wear.  Nowhere close to the 1% mark.  No sticky links or failed O-rings.  Sprocket teeth look great.

I’m not sure how much longer this chain lasts.  But I’ve had catastrophic belt failures on a BMW F800 around 25k miles. Heard of transmission and finals drives crapping out on BMWs and Guzzis around 40 to 50K miles.  I think a modern, O-ring chain is a marvel. 

[SIR REAL ED]

Once again, I salute Huzo for his keen observations and for sharing my motorcycle prejudices.  I admit—I negatively judge people who have nasty, dry, un-lubed chains.

Conversely, I’m already favorably inclined towards anyone I encounter with a nicely maintained, slightly slick & oiled chain.  Adjusted a bit on the slack side, but not too slack. 

Frankly, I award bonus points to those who don’t really care if there is a bit of lube accumulating in the vicinity of the chain. That’s the sign of a happy machine—I think it’s a good look.   A motorcycle isn’t supposed to look like a medical device sitting in the surgery suite of a hospital. 

And I’ll confess.  I love the smell of 90 weight gear oil. My chain lube of choice, applied with a 1” paint brush.  I’ve loved that unmistakeable smell ever since I was a kid, walking into a shed with serious, no-joke machines like tractors.  To me, the sulphrous aroma of gear oil signals the presence of honest, hardworking machines, and ones who are being maintained to last decades.   

I’m at 42,000 miles on my chain drive 2019 Kawasaki K900 Cafe.  I’ve got a chain wear gauge, and I’m still showing only a tad more than zero % wear.  Nowhere close to the 1% mark.  No sticky links or failed O-rings.  Sprocket teeth look great.

I’m not sure how much longer this chain lasts.  But I’ve had catastrophic belt failures on a BMW F800 around 25k miles. Heard of transmission and finals drives crapping out on BMWs and Guzzis around 40 to 50K miles.  I think a modern, O-ring chain is a marvel.

Amen SmithSwede!  You and Huzo both know your poop!

It is fascinating to see what aspects of preventive maintenance people find comfortable or uncomfortable.

Reading this thread, I'm mentally summing it up as people who don't like drive chains are people who just plain don't like to do simple, regular chain maintenance.

Kinda like the gas or electric chainsaw argument......  or adjustable tappets or valve shims.......  Buy whatever technology suits your talents and/or tinkering preferences.

IMO, I love mechanical systems that can be visually inspected in seconds.  Motorcycle drive chains fall in this category because lack of proper maintenance is visibly right there IN-YOUR-FACE!  How can you not see this needs attention!!!!

I've never heard of a problem with a drive chain whose rider who did proper maintenance.

Here is a scary thought:  Some motorcycles even have drive chains inside their engines!!!   

[faffi]

I like shaft drive because they are clean, and because I do not have to worry about wheel alignment. Shaft does not mean maintenance free.

[bronzestar1]

I recently sold a 2018 Triumph Street Twin, did a LOT of mods to it, but realized I'm not a British bike fan (yes, I know they're made in India), so I sold it.  I picked up my '23 V7 Special Edition on Friday, but have only been able to put a few miles on it because of all the rain this weekend.  I also have a 2018 Aprilia Dorsoduro 900, which is a Scrambler-ish kind of bike, and the riding experience, to me, is VERY different from either the Street Twin or SE.  You sit more upright, have wider bars to leverage, and it seems to fall into corners more quickly.  The DD has sportbike-sized tires on mag wheels, and gets up and goes pretty well for what it is.  I noticed the design of the spoked wheels on your Scrambler, looks like they should be able to run tubeless tires?  Enjoy the new ride, and don't let that high exhaust cook your right leg!     

[Huzo]

I like shaft drive because they are clean, and because I do not have to worry about wheel alignment. Shaft does not mean maintenance free.

I found out years ago that a good way not to have to “worry” about drive chains, is to just…..
Adjust them….
I would not turn away from a chain drive Guzzi, just because it was chain drive. When I have had occasion to ride beside my Triumph Sprint ST at highway speeds, I loved to look at the bottom run of the chain.
On smooth roads, the non driving section sat absolutely still. Just a gentle harmonic sway as the suspension ironed out the dips….
Magic.

[SIR REAL ED]

When I have had occasion to ride beside my Triumph Sprint ST at highway speeds, I loved to look at the bottom run of the chain.
On smooth roads, the non driving section sat absolutely still. Just a gentle harmonic sway as the suspension ironed out the dips….
Magic.

Your post reminds me of riding along side friend's bikes.  It was pretty obvious who was performing proper chain maintenance and who was not.  A dry, maladjusted chain makes a lot of noise at highway speeds.

Trials bikes have chain tensioners, as did some of the old European trail bikes.  Apparently, manufacturers figure there is not enough benefit to justify the expense of adding to street bikes.

[Huzo]

Your post reminds me of riding along side friend's bikes.  It was pretty obvious who was performing proper chain maintenance and who was not.  A dry, maladjusted chain makes a lot of noise at highway speeds.

Trials bikes have chain tensioners, as did some of the old European trail bikes.  Apparently, manufacturers figure there is not enough benefit to justify the expense of adding to street bikes.

The range of motion of the swingarm on a road bike is small compared to an off road bike.
Also the line joining the two sprocket centres on a road bike passes much closer to the centreline of the swingarm. This all adds up to mean that the slack in a roadbike chain is far more constant as the swingarm moves, than an off road bike.
They are simply not required.

[faffi]

Watch this until you see the chain under dyno testing https://youtu.be/dHe2Lklzr0c?t=270

[SIR REAL ED]

The range of motion of the swingarm on a road bike is small compared to an off road bike.
Also the line joining the two sprocket centres on a road bike passes much closer to the centreline of the swingarm. This all adds up to mean that the slack in a roadbike chain is far more constant as the swingarm moves, than an off road bike.
They are simply not required.

True enough. 

Chain tensioners exist on trials to increase throttle response precision, but even motocross and enduro these days do not have chain tensioners. I suspect since modern chains have nothing in common with the chains of the 60's & 70's quality wise, the demand & benefit is close to zero.

But hey, for those who like to pamper their bikes during oil changes by preheating the motor oil before they refill the engine, or only changing the motor oil with Luciano Pavarotti singing in the background to reduce engine trauma, nothing is too good, right?   

Years ago, just for giggles, I made a chain tensioner for my Suzuki DR650 (the "Bush Pig" in Straya).  I really could not detect any benefit while riding. Although it did reenforce what I already knew.  Moly impregnated UHMW wears like iron.  It is a great material choice if I need to make a swingarm chain guard or build a low stress bearing.

Plus I know my baby feels special when she is wearing a bit of home made "bling!"  There's more thane way to define "high maintenance" ya know!