Loose Fuses

[LowRyter]

I've been trouble shooting my 98 EV for the last year.  I've got it close to "dialed in":  New TPS, Shift linkage adjustment (and no more missed 2-3 upshifts).  Perhaps I'll look at new shocks and Ned's Comfort Seat?

The last problem I've been having is sudden engine shut off and failure to start.  I finally isolated it to loose fuses.  It shut off on me on a ride and we discovered the fuel pump was dead, when we pressed on the fuse (actually according to the diagram the fuse next to the fuel pump fuse......hmm).  Anyway, the entire fuse holder isn't "Solid".   It flexes when I push the fuses. 

Is this a common thing with a routine fix or some kind of strange deal?  What should I do?

[Bill Havins]

I don't mean to be insulting, but you did unplug the kickstand switch, didn't you?

After you respond, "Well of course!  Gosh!  Do you think I'm stupid or what?" we'll go from there.  ;D

Seriously, the fuse block is a funny animal - lots of flex in the modular (did I remember that right?) construction of it.  And the spade lugs have the potential to work their way out of the back over time.  And then there are issues with dielectric grease (who invented that stuff, anyway?).

But, the real issues are the relays.  Think, "Pyro Dan sells nice ones..."  I'm running automotive-grade Panasonic relays in mine.  They seemed to have cured a very intermittent problem I was having some months back - may have been purely a placebo effect, though.

Roy will be along directly....Time to quit for the day....not making any sense even to me....

Good luck!

Bill

[LowRyter]

the fuse holder actually flexes when you push the fuses.  Rudy was testing the fuses when he pushed on one and the fuel pump started to buzz.  I then pressed all the fuses in tight and notices the fuse holder was flexing/ bending.  Rudy recommended that I might wrap the fuses with a zip tie.  I'd need a long one to wrap it long-ways.

Previously (late last year), I had also fixed it when it was mis-mounted on one side.

[LowRyter]

I don't mean to be insulting, but you did unplug the kickstand switch, didn't you?

After you respond, "Well of course!  Gosh!  Do you think I'm stupid or what?" we'll go from there.  ;D

Seriously, the fuse block is a funny animal - lots of flex in the modular (did I remember that right?) construction of it.  And the spade lugs have the potential to work their way out of the back over time.  And then there are issues with dielectric grease (who invented that stuff, anyway?).

But, the real issues are the relays.  Think, "Pyro Dan sells nice ones..."  I'm running automotive-grade Panasonic relays in mine.  They seemed to have cured a very intermittent problem I was having some months back - may have been purely a placebo effect, though.

Roy will be along directly....Time to quit for the day....not making any sense even to me....

Good luck!

Bill

1.  The side stand has been disconnected since I purchased the bike.

2.  I installed Dan's relays last year when I noticed that the fuse holder wasn't mounted on one side.

It's actually run well until the ride over the weekend.  And then we discovered the issue with the loose fuses and flexing holder.

[fotoguzzi]

I have a used wiring harness with the full fuse block.. if you feel like swapping either the fuse block or the whole wiring harness I'll donate it to the cause.. you make a donation to WG..

[1Sourdough]

When going over my '99 EV some years ago I noticed the fuse block seemed a little flexible, in addition to 'floating' on the mounts.  I looked around here and among the electrical anomaly threads no one mentioned that as a concern, so I have ignored it.  I did look the block over and make sure it wasn't cracked or weakened in one spot to make like a hinge.  Maybe in the next few days it'd be a good idea to look that over again...

[rodekyll]

I'm not sure what's being described.

What's important is that the fuses are securely in their contacts.  The contacts are simple female spade connectors.  They can get soft and bend with age and heat.  I replace mine when they look bad.  You can also get some more life out of them by bending them closed for a tighter fit.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The fuse blocks and relay bases do flop around but that's not a worry.


You never said that pushing on the fuses made it re-start

I suspect you might be losing the ECU relay, that will stop the pump.
When you say it won't start do you mean wont even crank or won't fire while cranking, it's very important to be specific.

Unless you hear the fuel pump prime there will be no spark, the pump and ignition share the same circuit.
The starter will still crank the bike.

Tug on all the wires coming out the bottom of the relay bases in case one of the connectors has come loose

Wire a small lamp to the petcock fuse, just jamb the wire in with the fuse, other end to a bolt on the chassis. The light will come on with the key and should never flicker, If it goes out if there's a fault before that point, the next time it stalls look at the light and you will narrow the possible faults by 50%
Note: I don't care if you have installed a manual petcock, the wires are still there.

If the bike stops and the light goes out use it to check other parts of the circuit, take the wire out of the petcock fuse remove the stand relay and test for Voltage at the socket pin 30 then the common point of Fuse 3 / Fuse 4

Another guy this week found a loose connection on the Ignition Switch feed, I show it going to the battery but often the schematics lie, check for it at the starter solenoid. If any of the 3 red wires is loose it will stop the bike so check them all.


I have tried to talk guys into wiring a permanent light to the petcock fuse, it's worth it's weight in gold if the bike starts playing up

My V11 Sport has one on each relay, I went overboard.

[LowRyter]

it's a worry if you're riding and lose power because the fuel pump ain't working. 

[rodekyll]

I explained why that's happening and it isn't because the plastic is loose.  Why do I waste my time?

[Wayne Orwig]

it's a worry if you're riding and lose power because the fuel pump ain't working. 

That fuse block is like a set of Lego blocks, stuck together. Except that Lego blocks would be more solid.   :D

Even though they wiggle a bit, I've never seen where that was a problem.
Do you still have the original fuses? The originals are some form of multiple pieces of metal spot welded together. Very fragile. Hopefully you replaced them. Put a good contact enhancer on them and in the sockets. You may have a loose terminal that needs tightened, or even a bad crimp.

 

[travelingbyguzzi]

We have had this problem in an '06 Dodge Sprinter and twist the male 'leg' on the fuse to get a tighter fit. Had a helluva time isolating the cause.
I would say your problem is solved.

[rocker59]

What's important is that the fuses are securely in their contacts.  The contacts are simple female spade connectors.  They can get soft and bend with age and heat.  I replace mine when they look bad.  You can also get some more life out of them by bending them closed for a tighter fit.

Yep.  Sounds like loose female spade connectors in the fuse block.

[rocker59]

Hey John,

You do not use dilectric grease, do you?

[JoeW]

I'm not sure what's being described.

What's important is that the fuses are securely in their contacts.  The contacts are simple female spade connectors.  They can get soft and bend with age and heat.  I replace mine when they look bad.  You can also get some more life out of them by bending them closed for a tighter fit.

:+1 There could also be corrosion on the terminals, as the bike runs, current draw will heat up a poor connection, as heat builds, resistance increases until there isn't enough current flow to run the pump. I would replace all fuses, make sure the spade terminals are tight. You can clean them with electric contact cleaner or a dab of muratic acid. Then apply dielectric grease and install the new fuses.

[Wayne Orwig]

Then apply dielectric grease and install the new fuses.

Always someone.

 :beat_horse

[LowRyter]

I've replaced a couple of fuses (all 15A).  The funny thing is the Fuel Pump fuse on the diagram (that I replaced with the relays) was NOT the fuse the killed the fuel pump.  It was actually the fuse next to the one on the diagram.

I think I'll replace the fuses, clean it up with dialectic grease and make sure it's all solid.  Maybe see it I can run some reinforcement along the bottom of the fuse holder.

[rocker59]

I think the consensus us DO NOT USE dielectric grease in your fuse box.

It can contribute to problems with the contacts.

[LowRyter]

Don't use it?

OK

[Wayne Orwig]

clean it up with dialectic grease

If you have already been using that crap, I think we found your problem.    :(

[Chuck in Indiana]

If you have already been using that crap, I think we found your problem.    :(

Uh, yeah. It took me a long time to get all that crap out of the Strada's connections. A previous owner decided it would be a good idea to put dielectric grease in everything electrical.  ::) Naturally, it never ran again, and went through another owner that didn't get it going either. He even bought a new Digiplex unit.  :o $$
No, John. Never use dielectric grease.
I would have thought that everyone on WG would know that by now..

[Kiwi_Roy]

I've replaced a couple of fuses (all 15A).  The funny thing is the Fuel Pump fuse on the diagram (that I replaced with the relays) was NOT the fuse the killed the fuel pump.  It was actually the fuse next to the one on the diagram.
 

Either fuse will kill the pump, I'm a little concerned that one would blow, it just feeds the ECU.
I haven't been able to find a good schematic for my 98 with the P8 ECU, they all show the 15M

Don't worry about the fuse holders flopping around, they all do it but check and make sure each fuse is gripped securely by the base contacts.

[Bill Havins]

....I haven't been able to find a good schematic for my 98 with the P8 ECU, they all show the 15M

Roy,

The most accurate schematic I have found for the '98 EV is in the Workshop Manual (for the California series) published in April of 2002.  PM me your email address and I'll send you the .pdf (if you don't already have it).

There is also a pretty good schematic in the fuel injection manual for the '98.  I'll send you a .pdf of that, too (if you don't already have it).

Bill

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thanks Bill, PM sent.

[LowRyter]

I feel a little foolish posting this thread now that I have reread it.  Let me say, I've never considered fuses to be a maintenance item before. 

I decided to take the fuses out and replace them with new ones.  I was wrong when I said I had replaced some before.  All of them have some milky corrosion on them.  I sprayed the contacts with Contact Cleaner - Lubricant and replaced all the fuses.

Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.  New fuses, contact cleaner and Dan's relays.  The fuse holder is plastic and flexes some, so we'll see how it goes.

[Wayne Orwig]

I feel a little foolish posting this thread now that I have reread it.  Let me say, I've never considered fuses to be a maintenance item before. 

I decided to take the fuses out and replace them with new ones.  I was wrong when I said I had replaced some before.  All of them have some milky corrosion on them.  I sprayed the contacts with Contact Cleaner - Lubricant and replaced all the fuses.

If they were the original fuses, they were a problem. Normal fuses don't need replaced typically.
So you never said, are you damaging them with dielectric grease?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I have been using plain old Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline on things electrical for 50 years, the jury is still out  ???

I wouldn't fess up to using Dielectric grease either with you guys watching ;D

[rocker59]

John,

Check out DeoxIT


http://www.caig.com/

[Chuck in Indiana]

John,

Check out DeoxIT


http://www.caig.com/

That's the stuff. It's safe on plastics, too, which some contact cleaners *aren't*. Don't ask me how I know..  ;D

[LowRyter]

If they were the original fuses, they were a problem. Normal fuses don't need replaced typically.
So you never said, are you damaging them with dielectric grease?

no.