v7 iii dead alternator

[mdhen]

V7 iii with I think a dead alternator.  On a road trip right now so not great timing.  I was having issues with the last battery but I thought it was just the battery.  Got a new one recently,  shorai li-ion battery.  Rode it a full day yesterday and about an hour into the ride today it died while riding.  It started up again and then died while riding after few minutes later.  Totally dead now.

Getting a tow now to a shop that specializes in beemers. How difficult is this repair if that is the issue? Just wondering how screwed I am right now. 

[Kev m]

A number of the V7III's seem to have suffered shorter alternator coils.

If that's the case, they have to drain oil, remove front cover, remove and replace the alternator coil.

It's not terrible, assuming they can get the parts timely.

[Dirk_S]

I replaced mine on my II last fall (same charging unit)—found that it failed two days into my Newfoundland & Labrador trip.

I’d take a multimeter to the voltage regulator/rectifier first to see if that’s actually the issue rather than the Stator. The regulator is out in the open, and if that’s failed, it’s an easy swap. Plus, you can get those regulators many-a-places. Unplug it, unscrew it from the frame, and pop on the replacement.

The stator replacement—someone else with a V7 III should chime in, since mine is a II. I THINK they’re similar enough that you should be able to get the alternator cover off in the front without having to drop the engine. That said, it’s an oil-bathed alternator; some oil will spill out.

Kiwi Roy found more success removing the alternator cover by drilling a hole through the frame brace to get at one or two of the cover bolts.

[Dirk_S]

A number of the V7III's seem to have suffered shorter alternator coils.

If that's the case, they have to drain oil, remove front cover, remove and replace the alternator coil.

It's not terrible, assuming they can get the parts timely.

I was about to mention the need to drain the oil, as I read that before… but thinking about my rebuild, I’m confused why the oil needs to be drained if it rests in the sump. I take it the oil level rises high enough to spill over, maybe via a port? I think it might just be minimal, though.

[Dirk_S]

Link to Kiwi Roy’s post detailing his stator replacement:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=106425.msg1694113#msg1694113

[Kev m]

I was about to mention the need to drain the oil, as I read that before… but thinking about my rebuild, I’m confused why the oil needs to be drained if it rests in the sump. I take it the oil level rises high enough to spill over, maybe via a port? I think it might just be minimal, though.

Sorry, yeah I wasn't thinking. Habit of recommending draining oil before opening any cover that has a gasket to keep in oil.

But I think you're right the oil level should be below the cover. So not drain oil, but will have to reseal cover with new gasket and top off oil and it's gonna be a little messy upon removal so have rags handy bla bla bla...

[Dirk_S]

… not drain oil, but will have to reseal cover with new gasket…

Even though it’s a metal gasket? Thought I read of others reusing theirs.

[mdhen]

Definitely not somewhere I can handle it myself unfortunately. But I'm getting it towed to a guzzi dealership,  La Moto in Arlington VA, so hopefully they have everything needed on hand.

[Kev m]

Even though it’s a metal gasket? Thought I read of others reusing theirs.

Again - standard recommendations.

I too reuse often.

But the OP was just asking for a general idea of how bad it was when a mechanic does it for him so I'm sweating the details.

[mdhen]

They do not have the stator in stock. We're not sure what the issue is yet but if it is the stator it would likely be fastest for me to order it independently. Anyone know where I could get it with fast shipping in the US?

[Dirk_S]

If you prefer to have it worked on at home, you could just get another battery and with one charged for back up, ride it back. But if you do want it fixed in the middle of a trip, I’d order a gently used one from eBay, or call Mark up at Moto Guzzi Classics and see if he has any. Note that they’d be used. You could also call up MG Cycle, Cadre Cycle, Harpers, Jim Hamlin, or AF1 to see if any of them have a new one they can expedite to you.

…have you tested the regulator/rectifier yet?

[mdhen]

They're going to diagnose it today hopefully.  I just left it with them, didn't have a voltmeter with me. 

The battery in there now is a shorai lithium, and i have the charger for it but didn't bring it with me on the trip, so I'm having it overnighted to me.  My plan now is that if it is the stator I'll charge it and head home and fix it myself. I got about 10 hours of riding out of it on the way to where I am now so as long as I can charge it nightly I'm fine.  I was planning on camping in the great smoky national park and then going up the BRP so that's out but I can get home doing that. 

I was having electrical issues previously with the last battery (yusu that came with it) but just thought the old battery was the issue. It was in storage for like 10 months and was on a tender the whole time and was totally dead when I got back to it last week.  With the new battery it was fine, until now.

[mdhen]

The electrical issue I was having last year was that when I was riding with a heated liner the power to the instrument cluster would cut out while riding but the engine would still be running.  And then I'd turn off the liner and the power would come back on.  So I think the stator was doing a pretty bad job of recharging at the time.

But this time the engine cut off as well.  Would the fact that I'm using a lithium battery have an effect on that as well? Like if the power completely cut off obviously the spark plugs can't do their job.  So I'm wondering if a lithium battery running out of power makes a difference vs a normal battery in terms of the engine cutting out.

[Vagrant]

Virtually no oil in there. It doesn't run in oil just mist as it is the new pos breather system.
There are several coils in the stator  you probably have 1-3 burned out. Unplug the head light bulb, avoid turn signals and if possible put in an led tail light. That should get you home. If in a rush GuzziTech stocks one. I bought a Chinese one for $99. Just put the part number in Google. I am sure that is where they got the stock unit and also sure it'll be found in one of the scooters based  on the three foot wires.

[n3303j]

Haven't played with any motorcycle lithium based batteries. But have used LiPo batteries in model aircraft. The ones I am familiar with will be destroyed if discharged below a specific voltage. To prevent this the manufacturer builds in circuitry that shuts the battery down before reaching this voltage. Sometimes this limiter is part if the battery.

On a Lead Acid battery you can run it down to zero volts before it stops putting out current. There is a reasonable chance it will survive this treatment. I think this same treatment destroys LiFePO batteries.

FWIW: Lead Acid batteries are rated in the amount of power they can store. A 15 amp hour rated Lead Acid battery should be able to deliver about 15 amps for one hour (or 1 amp for 15 hours). So if your bike requires 3 amps to run rhe ignition you could run for about 5 hours.

Often I have seen Lithium Iron batteries rated in "Amp Hour Equivalent" ratings. It's a "bogus" number manufacturers came up with that poorly describes starting power. They should use cranking amps for describing starting power. Amp hour equivalent does not necessarily define the true amount of current you can draw from the battery before it shuts down. So that light 15 amp hour equivalent LiFePo battery will crank your cruiser like a 15 amp hour lead battery but it won't provide 15 amp hours worth of running current.

Anyway that's what I've gathered from various sources. I always get the Odyssey 925 for my Guzzis and they get me home fine after an alternator failure.

[Dirk_S]

Lithium moto batteries will indeed be damaged if they’re discharged too far down. Not all manufacturers install this fail safe, unfortunately.

[twowheeladdict]

The only observation I would like to make is that if this particular battery requires a particular charger that is different than normal motorcycle battery chargers, what would make one think that the motorcycle charging system is compatible with the battery? 

I thought the better Lithium batteries came with their own circuitry that allowed them to be charged with a standard charger and also makes them fully compatible with the motorcycle charging system. 

I have no use for a Lithium batter so this is more curiosity and thinking through the logic. 

[mdhen]

The only observation I would like to make is that if this particular battery requires a particular charger that is different than normal motorcycle battery chargers, what would make one think that the motorcycle charging system is compatible with the battery? 

I thought the better Lithium batteries came with their own circuitry that allowed them to be charged with a standard charger and also makes them fully compatible with the motorcycle charging system. 

I have no use for a Lithium batter so this is more curiosity and thinking through the logic.

It can use a standard charger, but the one that's specifically made for it charges it faster and more evenly.  And if you're going to keep it in storage a lot of the year,  like I do since I live in Europe now,  it's a smart thing to have since it has a holding charge mode that's designed for keeping a lithium battery in good condition.

[twowheeladdict]

It can use a standard charger, but the one that's specifically made for it charges it faster and more evenly.  And if you're going to keep it in storage a lot of the year,  like I do since I live in Europe now,  it's a smart thing to have since it has a holding charge mode that's designed for keeping a lithium battery in good condition.

Thanks for the clarification. Hope you get rolling soon.

I have 10,000 miles and 5 years on the OEM battery so far.

[mdhen]

So the shop did diagnosis, stator is toast, and they're recommending replacing the stator and the regulator. Unfortunately the service manual for the v7 iii doesn't cover replacing the stator. Where could I find the best guide for that? The kiwi Roy post that was linked or is maybe the v7 ii procedure is the same and I can find that somewhere?

[Frenchfrog]

You should be able to find the right workshop manual in here https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/750/

[Dirk_S]

Even more specifically than Frenchfrog’s post (Guzzitek is certainly a great resource!), but here’s your specific engine manual. Page 44:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v7-iii-engine-750-euro-4_en.pdf

[mdhen]

Even more specifically than Frenchfrog’s post (Guzzitek is certainly a great resource!), but here’s your specific engine manual. Page 44:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v7-iii-engine-750-euro-4_en.pdf

Perfect, thanks.  Any idea if the flywheel extractor tool is a must have? And they mention inserting a spacer as part of the removal process, but no mention of a part number.

[Dirk_S]

You can easily make the spacer out of aluminum rod. The measurements don’t have to be precision cut, but you obviously need it to fit inside the shaft. Best to stick to the diameter and get pretty close to the length. The spacer simply allows a base for the screw to press against.

Not sure what you can use instead of the flywheel puller. If you can come up with another creative means of prying the heavily magnetized CAREFULLY off the crankshaft, go for it. Surprised the BMW shop doesn’t have one…or maybe theirs is a different thread size. You can get the flywheel puller off eBay or Amazon. Curious if Kiwi Roy and Vagrant used flywheel pullers for their stator jobs.

[Vagrant]

The rotor is fine don't waste your time or money on it. I bet the regulator is too.  Just the stator. Read Roys description his was a III.

[Dirk_S]

The rotor is fine don't waste your time or money on it. I bet the regulator is too.  Just the stator. Read Roys description his was a III.

Vagrant, what did you use to pull the stator?

[Vagrant]

From an old memory, the screws that hold it on are red lock tighted. Heat them to get out. I seem to remember the stator coming right off. I think the rotor is on a tapered shaft and would need a puller to get off but there is no reason to change it I'm sure.
You should drill a hole in the metal support on top to get that screw out. Pull the plastic cover down to get all the wires out to get to the connecter. I think I just had to pull the gas tank back although removal makes more sense.
As I recall Roy did pics and had good descriptions that I followed.

[Dirk_S]

Ah, that’s right. Now I remember everyone being confused why I was bothering to remove the rotor.