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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rough Edge racing on September 13, 2021, 06:43:20 AM
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Sold my 96 900 Monster to my good friend Petris Rocks as he is known here...Picked up a bargin prices 89 Honda 650 NT aka Hawk GT. Sohc liquid cooled 52 degree V twin, about 58 hp, 405 pounds with gas in the tank.
The bike appears to have been abused, dents in the fuel tank, different color parts, cobbed exhaust and ran poorly..The good was a new o ring chain smooth brakes, the engine is sound and a good rear shock.
I attended to the CV carbs, a cleaning, pod air filters(stock air box mia) and jetted properly, Mikuni mechanical pulse pump to replace the noisy electric pump. Adapted an Ebay $50 muffler, sorted out a million small issues.....
The engine now runs like it should, quiet mechanically and no smoke...The bike is fun on the back roads.decent power at moderate rpm. Not too busy , 75 mph is 4700 rpm...With the offset crank the engine feels like a 90 degree V twin...A cheap substitute for a late model V7, lol
(https://i.ibb.co/2MzQZwQ/8173540-B-9-FB9-42-ED-9-A3-D-AFE35-E952484.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2MzQZwQ)
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:thumb:
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Hey Rough, I know nothing about those Hawks, other than they have a glorious exhaust note when ridden in anger around a track. :evil:
The VRRA vintage racers hold them in very high regard.
Wishing you many safe miles and smiles, congrats on the new ride, :thumb:
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:thumb:
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Good for you! I have never heard one bad thing about those little Honda Hawks GT's.
A true cult-classic! :thumb: :bow: :cool: :boozing:
(https://i.ibb.co/VWzmZ93/Screen-Shot-2021-09-13-at-7-30-36-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/VWzmZ93)
websites to take pictures on (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/Byjtvvr/Screen-Shot-2021-09-13-at-7-30-46-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/Byjtvvr)
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I never knew they existed until about a month ago when a saw test report ...Yes, they are a cult machine but 3000 bucks can buy a nice stock bike..With a good after market slip on muffler, pod filters with rejetting thay can do high 12 second 1/4 mile times. I was interested because they have slower steering than the Monster that suits my old age...lol
Pulling dents out of the tank right now using a 50 Amazon buck dent pulling kit with glue on tabs..Works pretty good taking your time with a bit of metal working knowledge.
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My NT700V is the next evolution of that... or possibly de-evolution?
All the Hawk types (varidero/deauville/revere) seem to have a big light touring following in Europe.
The NT7000v is heavy with plain old welded tubular steel frame and is heavier, but shares very similar mechanics otherwise, 680cc 52degree v-twin, but shrouded in tupperware and built in Spain.
Great running bike. Bad NT integral luggage locking mechanism.
(https://i.ibb.co/gRNQmxd/index.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gRNQmxd)
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The Hawk 650 was (and probably still is) a popular track bike. I still vividly remember a rider on one slipping past me with ease on the inside of turn three at little Talladega many years ago. :embarrassed:
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Good bikes for mtn. roads. :thumb:
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The Hawk 650 was (and probably still is) a popular track bike. I still vividly remember a rider on one slipping past me with ease on the inside of turn three at little Talladega many years ago. :embarrassed:
CW or CCW?
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Sold my 96 900 Monster . . .
You did wut? Huh?? :cry:
Kidding aside, I hope you enjoy your new toy.
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What have you gone and dome now Tony ? :laugh:
Dusty
To me, bikes are machines, I find inner piece working on them..
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Went for a ride ,ran the bike wide open through the first four gears several times..The acceleration was faster than expected and actually quite the rush.. Then the engine started running poorly at low speeds, applying the choke a bit made it better...
Returned home to find the right hand carb idle mixture screw had unscrewed itself and disappeared...I guess we call this "character". :grin:
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Pretty cool,
You will enjoy the Hawk GT I'm sure. After you find all the little things that pop up due the previous life it'll be great. Sounds as if you have dialed it in well.
Have fun, be careful out there...
Best,
Rob
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Sold my 96 900 Monster to my good friend Petris Rocks as he is known here...Picked up a bargin prices 89 Honda 650 NT aka Hawk GT. Sohc liquid cooled 52 degree V twin, about 58 hp, 405 pounds with gas in the tank.
The bike appears to have been abused, dents in the fuel tank, different color parts, cobbed exhaust and ran poorly..The good was a new o ring chain smooth brakes, the engine is sound and a good rear shock.
I attended to the CV carbs, a cleaning, pod air filters(stock air box mia) and jetted properly, Mikuni mechanical pulse pump to replace the noisy electric pump. Adapted an Ebay $50 muffler, sorted out a million small issues.....
The engine now runs like it should, quiet mechanically and no smoke...The bike is fun on the back roads.decent power at moderate rpm. Not too busy , 75 mph is 4700 rpm...With the offset crank the engine feels like a 90 degree V twin...A cheap substitute for a late model V7, lol
(https://i.ibb.co/2MzQZwQ/8173540-B-9-FB9-42-ED-9-A3-D-AFE35-E952484.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2MzQZwQ)
Congrats on the "new" bike. Great machines and ahead of their time. the first generation Suzuki SV 650 is probably the closest competitor with another 30 hp IIRC. But the Hawks have the oldie and rarity factor much more than the SV. I know several people who have owned Hawks loved them.
IIRC, CV carbs tend to have a tough time with pod filters due to turbulent air flow. If you notice this, PVC tube around the air filters seems to help.
If you send me your email address by PM I'll send you a great article from Motorcycle Consumer News by Daniel Coe. He modified a Hawk into 817cc IIRC and tripled the power output. Not that you want to do that, but an interesting article all the same.
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I never knew they existed until about a month ago when a saw test report ...Yes, they are a cult machine but 3000 bucks can buy a nice stock bike..With a good after market slip on muffler, pod filters with rejetting thay can do high 12 second 1/4 mile times. I was interested because they have slower steering than the Monster that suits my old age...lol
Pulling dents out of the tank right now using a 50 Amazon buck dent pulling kit with glue on tabs..Works pretty good taking your time with a bit of metal working knowledge.
A couple of riding friends had them. One I raced at Leicester with my LeMans and he beat me by half a bike length. My time was 13 flat at 103 and his was 12.9 at 92. That bike is now owned by Jim’s wife at the BBC. One of the Hawk gurus was in the Norton club for a few years when he was going to RIT. He went on to race Hawks and sell parts but have long lost track of him. Jim may know of his whereabouts now.
Pete
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"IIRC, CV carbs tend to have a tough time with pod filters due to turbulent air flow. If you notice this, PVC tube around the air filters seems to help. "
I put pod filters on an 81 Honda 750, Ducati 900 Monster and this Honda NT, all have CV carbs. Never experienced the tuning problems people talk about....Besides jetting and float level , The CV chamber vent tubes need to be routed to an area of non turbulent airflow..Right behind the carbs works for me...I also jet leaner than most..
I sent you my email for the article, Be interesting to read, thanks
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CW or CCW?
Boy, that was a long time ago! CW I think. :huh:
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"IIRC, CV carbs tend to have a tough time with pod filters due to turbulent air flow. If you notice this, PVC tube around the air filters seems to help. "
I put pod filters on an 81 Honda 750, Ducati 900 Monster and this Honda NT, all have CV carbs. Never experienced the tuning problems people talk about....Besides jetting and float level , The CV chamber vent tubes need to be routed to an area of non turbulent airflow..Right behind the carbs works for me...I also jet leaner than most..
I sent you my email for the article, Be interesting to read, thanks
That is probably the best explanation of the trouble people have with pod filters that I have heard. I have never messed with them myself, but I've read their opinions. Some say "Never use pod filters with CV carbs. They are impossible to tune properly.", others say "Pod filters work great with CV carbs. No problems."
I have always thought that the intake noise from pod filters would be very loud. No basis for this thought, other than remembering how annoying the intake noise from some older bikes can be with a modified air box. What is your experience? With a stock exhaust would the change in intake "honk" be noticeable?
What brand of pod filters are you using? Do you notice any effect on the bike from cross winds or gusty winds?
thanks in advance.
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The Honda has Uni foam pods, the Ducati and Honda 750 used K&N.....The Ducati was very fussy about about the vacuum chamber vent locations. Some vent into stock air box, some like the Ducati have separate filters for the vents.
CV carb slides are controlled by air flow through the carb and not manifold air pressure, aka vacuum. In some installations, a bit more restriction to air flow may help tuning, like a partial covering of the filter as you mentioned..Many enlarge the air bleed holes in the slide that determine how quickly the slide opens or closes. Do it wrong and the you you create fuel mixture issues.
On the Ducati the engine responded the same to a cut away air box lid or large pods..I used pods to eliminate the bulky box and making jetting changes much easier...and didn't butcher the airbox
The Honda 650 NT came with no airbox, just the small cheapo gauze filters. The Honda makes noticeably more power with pods ,some bikes do better with the stock airbox..It's a snotty little engine with the pods and low restriction muffler.
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The Honda has Uni foam pods, the Ducati and Honda 750 used K&N.....The Ducati was very fussy about about the vacuum chamber vent locations. Some vent into stock air box, some like the Ducati have separate filters for the vents.
CV carb slides are controlled by air flow through the carb and not manifold air pressure, aka vacuum. In some installations, a bit more restriction to air flow may help tuning, like a partial covering of the filter as you mentioned..Many enlarge the air bleed holes in the slide that determine how quickly the slide opens or closes. Do it wrong and the you you create fuel mixture issues.
On the Ducati the engine responded the same to a cut away air box lid or large pods..I used pods to eliminate the bulky box and making jetting changes much easier...and didn't butcher the airbox
The Honda 650 NT came with no airbox, just the small cheapo gauze filters. The Honda makes noticeably more power with pods ,some bikes do better with the stock airbox..It's a snotty little engine with the pods and low restriction muffler.
How about intake noise? Any significant change?
I would tend to think the UNI filters might be a bit less sensitive to rain.
I know a lot of time goes into airbox design, and elminating the airbox is great for simplifying the bike and easier servicing/tuning.
Next time I run into some troublesome carbs on an old bike, I am going to look at replacing them with OKO carbs. Reasonable prices and I know the guy who is the distributor (or maybe even the importer) and he seems like a very honest individual.
Daniel Coe's Hawk is a nice bit of engineering, isn't it?
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Yes, more intake "honk" with the carbs directly under the metal fuel tank...I wondered if the Africa 750 engine would fit...
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I never paid attention to how many different bikes Honda stuck its V-twin engine into. I really liked my '85 Honda Shadow 700.
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Yes, more intake "honk" with the carbs directly under the metal fuel tank...I wondered if the Africa 750 engine would fit...
I'm not sure if that engine was used in any models sold in the USA. I think all the US Honda 750 v-twins were shaft drive.
More low end torque is better. I had an SV 650 with a Zlock Racing 744cc kit with 12.5:1 compression. With two teeth less on the rear sprocket, it wheelied in second as easily as a stock SV 650 wheelied in first.
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My friend Joe and his wife Carol just completed a 2000 mile trip on their NT650s.
(https://i.ibb.co/4KkzrjL/Joe-Carol-with-their-NT650s.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4KkzrjL)
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friend of mine had a ~1978 Honda Hawk 400cc automatic. F'ing thing was brutalized and indestructible. Great bike.
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friend of mine had a ~1978 Honda Hawk 400cc automatic. F'ing thing was brutalized and indestructible. Great bike.
Nothing in common with The Hawk 650 NT....
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My friend Joe and his wife Carol just completed a 2000 mile trip on their NT650s.
(https://i.ibb.co/4KkzrjL/Joe-Carol-with-their-NT650s.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4KkzrjL)
That’s great to see..
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That’s great to see..
Sure is, great story there too.
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Tony,
As you have discovered, the GT responds well to the freer breathing canister change and air filter mods. The air box delete is a great start, I know that will cause some discussion in certain circles however, after exhaustive testing the proof is in the pudding.
Not every canister and filter combination will require the Factory Stage III, the Stage I works well for a mild change. They are so tune friendly that one can dial the performance in to suit with little fanfare.
Enjoy the GT, they are a mainstay in my garage and have been since 1994.
Cheers,
Rob
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I have seen tha wee beastie in person. Sounds good! I look forward to riding it. Looking through my magazine collection for test articles
I've been following Tony's fettling for some years now. Always interesting, always informative.
My favorite quote is "it'll work or it won't" offered up on every intense project we've done.
He seems to favor big hammers too...
The 900 went to a good home- four Italians in the garage now.
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A few posts up I mentioned there was guy in our local Norton club that went on to build and race Hawk GTs. Yesterday at our club meeting I checked and he is Jim Davis and his former company was Hawk Connection. You will see the parts he created from time to time on CL and ebay. That morphed into this outfit but given that website is ten years old it appears he has moved on to other interests. You might be interested in what one of his bikes, not a Hawk, looked like.
http://www.motomorphic.com/index.php
Pete