GUZZI TEST RIDES AT BIKE WEEK 2024

[leafman60]

I've been in Daytona Beach the last several days attending the 2024 Bike Week event. I was pleasantly surprised, actually shocked, to find a sizable Moto Guzzi presence at the race track offering, generously offering, test rides on Moto Guzzi and the other products offered by Piaggio under the tent of the south Florida Motoplex group (Daytona, Gainesville and Naples).  Those guys were great and the new GM at Motoplex Daytona was awesome.

I was allowed a very nice test ride (unescorted) on both the new Stelvio and a pretty red (standard) Mandello.  They were out of stock on the Mandello S.  Those rides were very enjoyable and instructive for me. I had already seen the Mandello at the Motoplex near Atlanta but denied a test ride. However, this was my first viewing of the new Stelvio.

I like the appearance of both machines and my hat is off to Guzzi for moving forward with these new designs. One of my biggest concerns was a lingering fear that this move into modernity also resulted in a over-sanitizing of the brand to make it better align with other brands' pursuit of "smoothness" and "quietness."  Both of these traits are not what I want out of a motorcycle and have underpinned my attraction to Guzzi for over 20 years.

First off, the new Guzzis are not sanitized.  Though very modern in design and performance, the new Guzzis still provide visceral feedback of sound and feel though the pegs and bars.

Both bikes also handled very well. I was able to romp on them pretty good through tight curves and meandering straight road sections at high speeds. The new Guzzis are made for those winding roads of the Italian Lake Country and elsewhere. 

You could hear that motor getting down to business under open throttle and revel in those wonderful vibrations teasing your hand grips and boot soles.  Awesome.

Acceleration was acceptable and would deliver you to triple digits very quickly, very quickly. The Brembo brakes were very strong and offered good feel. The clutch pull was acceptably light and engagement well-modulated and I noticed no intrusive heat from the engine. These bikes are well-designed  and they are offered at a very attractive price point.

Comparing the two bikes, I'd say what I guess is obvious.  For pure street operation and sporty handling, I would give a slight edge to the Mandello with its more street-oriented and lower suspension. It had plenty of ground clearance for deep leans into those sharp curves too  The Stelvio is no slouch on the road, even with its taller suspenders. However, it would be more versatile by offering better going if you wanted to venture off onto unpaved passageways where ground clearance on rough terrain is important.

If you haven't ridden one, you need to find a dealer who has enough sense to realize the importance of test rides for bikes like these.  The people at Motoplex in Central Florida are enlightened.  I sincerely appreciate them and recommend them for that.

Now, lets get down to the nitty gritty.  Would I personally buy a new 1000cc Guzzi?   No.

I have been spoiled by currently owning a relatively new BMW 1250 ShiftCam GS (my 6th GS)  AND a phenomenal Harley Davidson Pan America. Both of these bikes offer around 150 horsepower and torque numbers in the 100-plus range.  They are bristling with the latest sophisticated electronic wizardry of engine and suspension control. A lot of these things were once eschewed by me but, having had them, I have been spoiled and my expectations elevated.

Compared to these other bikes I am riding, the new Guzzis fall very short. They don't have the beans of the bigger mills.   The smaller Guzzi motor needed much more revving to get substantial thrust compared to these larger bikes.  Rounding a curve in, say, 3rd or 4th gear with revs down into maybe 3 grand and then cracking the throttle, the bikes just were out of serious steam.  Yes, they would eventually pull out of it without a down shift but the bikes needed to be in the upper 5's to 7 grand to really get with the program.  The Harley and the BMW will pull like gangbusters even when lugging the motor in these low rpm ranges whereas the Guzzis struggled. HUGE difference, HUGE, especially with Pan America.

Even my previous Stelvio NTX and my current Griso SE just seem to have much more low-rev grunt than the new "little" 1000.

Also, the transmission of the Guzzi was not nearly as nicely shifting as the tranny on my Griso or my old NTX or my old V11 Scura.  The new transmission is okay but every shift is greeted with a noticeable "thunk" when it locks into the next gear.  I never missed a gear but it somewhat reminded me of an old airhead BMW.  "Thunk, thunk, thunk."  You could even feel it in the seat.  AGAIN, it's nothing I couldn't get used to but it's something I noticed.

By the way, while I'm being mean,  those wing things on the Mandello that have received so much attention are ridiculous, a gimmick in my opinion.  Oh, mine dutifully deployed but what do they actually do?  I removed a glove while riding at speed in order to feel around trying to detect noticeable wind deflection in that zone about at my waist level.  Academically, I'm sure there must be some minimal effect but I never detected anything of significance. If it's a successful marketing ploy then so be it.

Now, I realize that these new Guzzi bikes are not designed or priced to be in the category of the big GS or the Pan America.  Comparing the Guzzi 1000 to those bikes is like comparing apples and oranges.  I'm not even sure how the Guzzi would stack up against the BMW 850 series.

The point of my comments is not to run-down the new Guzzis but simply to imply my lingering wonder at why Guzzi has not offered a bike that would better compete with these more powerful and capable machines out there that are offered by many other motorcycle competitors.  Maybe they will someday.  I know what some people say about an older demographic wanting smaller bikes but most of the GS riders are gray! 

They final thing for me is the question of quality control.  Although other brands like BMW can have problems, my past 20+ years with Guzzi products is that they have been sorely lacking in design and basic manufacturing quality control. On top of that, there has been inadequate factory intervention to  address problems when they become evident.   The repercussions of terrible, just terrible, reliability problems like plagued me with my Stelvio are impressions that don't easily die. I hope that Guzzi has or will address that issue that looms even more importantly than all the other characteristics of a machine.  One shouldn't have to be a mechanic to own and operate these things.  They shouldn't need that "sorting out" that seems to never end.

These are just my impressions based upon my experiences.  I don't hold myself out as any sort of expert and I know that many of you will greatly like the performance of the new Guzzi bikes.  That's a good thing.

[Vagrant]

You save ten grand and have a bike you can afford to service. Plus there aren't many places you can use 40 more horses. I saw the blistered legs on a Pan American rider last year. No thanks!

[blu guzz]

Leaf:

Thanks for that comprehensive review and especially the comparison.  I am sure many other people have been curious about the other bikes you name.  It seems to me that once again, Guzzi is going their own unique way that is so frustrating and at the same time admirable of them.  I try to keep in mind that even with the backing of Piaggio, they still have a "small craft" business mentality or so it seems.  When the V85 became really hot (for Guzzi), they had a challenge to meet the demand.  I would guess they are on target for what they can realistically produce.
As for reliability, I have a close riding friend who lived through many of the nightmares.  For my part, I have had 3 geese, a 2015 1400 custom, 2020 V85 and now a 2016 1400 Eldo and each has been trouble free (knock on wood).
Thanks again. 

[Moparnut72]

I own a Mandello, I have about 800 miles on mine so far. I wish it were more but winter and weather have kept me from riding it more. I would like to add a couple of comments. The other two bikes have a couple of hundred more cc's displacement so I would expect them to have more power however the Mandello has more than enough as far as I am concerned. How much does a person really need? As far as the transmission goes you have some valid points but I think as the miles add up they will get much smoother. I believe mine is probably on of the worst from what has been reported. When mine was new it was impossible to shift it into neutral from either 1st or 2nd. All the shifts from 1st through 3rd were somewhat rough. All of these have improved with mileage and going into neutral is no longer an issue. I rode Airheads starting in the late 60's on which shifting could be very crude. With a lot of practice I learned how to shift them smoothly and quietly. With that experience I could do the same with tractor transmission equiped Harleys. Air cooled MG transmissions can be shifted the same with the same techniques, in fact they are much smoother than those.  I haven't gotten a technique down yet for the Mandello but it is getting better and with a couple of thousand miles or so I expect it to be as smooth as the others. I think the dogs on the gears just need to wear in and become friendly with each other. I bought mine without a test ride. I am glad I didn't otherwise I probably wouldn't have bought it. The more I ride it the more I am glad I got it. I am really liking it and can't wait to go on some long multi day trips on it.
kk

[Huzo]

A very heartfelt and honest appraisal.
If I were close to buying one, I would place a lot of store on what you say, but the perceived shortcomings would in no way deter me. That is NOT to say that your negative comments do not have merit.

[elrealistico]

The revival of the V7 up to and including the current ones have helped put Guzzi on the map with younger riders especially in hipster-ville. We'll see how it goes with the  re-done Stelvio as far as an alternative to the GS and PanAm.
I am too cheap to buy a new bike anytime soon, but I like what they have done with it so far.

[tazio]

Leaf, thanks for taking the time to give your observations.
Hope you're still diggin' the GRiSO.
I know I am mine.
We need a get together in northern Alabama one of these days!

[rocker59]

Compared to these other bikes I am riding, the new Guzzis fall very short. They don't have the beans of the bigger mills.   The smaller Guzzi motor needed much more revving to get substantial thrust compared to these larger bikes.  Rounding a curve in, say, 3rd or 4th gear with revs down into maybe 3 grand and then cracking the throttle, the bikes just were out of serious steam.  Yes, they would eventually pull out of it without a down shift but the bikes needed to be in the upper 5's to 7 grand to really get with the program.  The Harley and the BMW will pull like gangbusters even in these low rpm ranges when lugging the motor whereas the Guzzi almost felt like it was going to fall on its face. HUGE difference, HUGE, especially with Pan America.

Can you say which "mode" the V100s were in on your test?   The reason I ask is the dyno runs I've seen on V100s and GRiSOs are not enough different to account for your seat of the pants feel.  Makes me wonder if you were riding in "rain mode", or something...

Other than mode, I suppose gearing and flywheel/clutch mass could account for differences in feel.

[Tkelly]

Maybe it’s just me,but I have no interest in reading comparisons of Guzzis with other brands.Inam sure there are many bikes that have numbers better than Guzzi,but you can’t beat the bang for the buck and all around good vibes from Guzzi ownership at any price.

[leafman60]

Can you say which "mode" the V100s were in on your test?   The reason I ask is the dyno runs I've seen on V100s and GRiSOs are not enough different to account for your seat of the pants feel.  Makes me wonder if you were riding in "rain mode", or something...

Other than mode, I suppose gearing and flywheel/clutch mass could account for differences in feel.

Hi, Rocker. LOL, no, I wasn't in the "RAIN" mode.  SPORT and ROAD.

Again, the bikes ran well and you cannot compare them to the more powerful competition.  Also, comparing to the old 8V like my Griso is purely subjective but the old motor seemed to have a bit more torque in the low ranges.  The Griso is definitely better shifting.  Maybe after you sort out the Mandello (uggg) and get some miles on it, this will improve.

[rocker59]

Hi, Rocker. LOL, no, I wasn't in the "RAIN" mode.  SPORT and ROAD.

Again, the bikes ran well and you cannot compare them to the more powerful competition.  Also, comparing to the old 8V like my Griso is purely subjective but the old motor seemed to have a bit more torque in the low ranges.  The Griso is definitely better shifting.  Maybe after you sort out the Mandello (uggg) and get some miles on it, this will improve.

Were I to get a V100 Mandello, it would be as a replacement for my long departed V11 LeMans Nero Corsa.  From that point of reference, I'm sure the V100 feels like it came from another world.  I was able to sit on a V100 Mandello, and spend a lot of time closely examining one, back in January.  Seems like it would be really enjoyable.  All I need is $$,$$$. 

[kingoffleece]

The day Guzzi gets into the horsepower wars with be the real beginning of the end.  The appeal of them is that they are not what everyone else builds.
It'll always be a small market for that kind of product.

Having been around riders of superior skill, including a former AMA #1 plate holder, these guys can dust anything in the twisties.  Anything, on a Guzzi, no less. been there, seen it, and I can't stay with them for 5 minuets.  HP only matters on straights.  Yes, one needs a level of power for long highway rides.  Plenty of us seem to make due without 150 hp.

Far be it from me to tell anyone what the like-or should like.  Just saying the unique feel is a wonderful choice-and I've had a lot of different bikes in over 50 years of riding.

[Tom]

Mahalo for the review!  🤙🤙🤙 

[Clifton]

.....Compared to these other bikes I am riding, the new Guzzis fall very short. They don't have the beans of the bigger mills.   The smaller Guzzi motor needed much more revving to get substantial thrust compared to these larger bikes.  Rounding a curve in, say, 3rd or 4th gear with revs down into maybe 3 grand and then cracking the throttle, the bikes just were out of serious steam. ......

.......Even my previous Stelvio NTX and my current Griso just have much more low-rev grunt than the new "little" 1000.....

To put the above in perspective the Mandello does the 1/4 mile in 12.5 seconds at which point you're going 120 mph. 0-60 occurs well under 4 seconds. Top speed is 140 mph. Peak torque of over 75 ft lb comes at 6,750 rpm with over 80% of that amount everywhere from 3,500 rpm up. So it's not like the bikes are lethargic below 5,000 rpm or something.
 
My 2007 2V Griso ran very well and had as much, if not a little more, low end grunt as the 1200 Griso I rode. The V100 Stelvio feels more powerful everywhere than my Griso. Also the throttling is spot on with no on/off abruptness. My point just being to say these are very good running motorcycles, the best that Guzzi has ever offered.

[LowRyter]

I didn't find the bikes underpowered.  These bikes rev to 9k, so it's a matter of getting in the power curve.  I'm sure they're not in league of 150hp bikes but shifted in the right gear, I think they'll walk away from a Griso or any other Guzzi.  Rocker had a good point whether it was in Sports mode.  But 3k might be on low side of the torque curve.  Having met LM, I'm not second guessing him, just have a little different point of view.  So far as any Guzzi I've ridden this one rips if you rev it and is fastest.  Not saying it will run with the big bores but it will definitely get you well over 100mph pretty quick.

[Tkelly]

MCN test had 143 on a Griso.

[LowRyter]

It's a revver.  It doesn't have the freight train torque inertia like a big block Guzzi but it tachs up a lot faster.

[Clifton]

Guzzi claims the 1200 Griso tops at 127. I wonder what rpm a Griso would even be running at 141 mph? I believe maximum power is around 7,300-7,500 rpm with redline at 8,000.

[leafman60]

Mahalo for the review!  🤙🤙🤙

Mahalo back at ya, ole buddy.   I remember the time at the rally in Malibu!

.

[twowheeladdict]

Very interesting observations on the new Guzzis.

Your positives are very encouraging.

What you don't like about them falls right into what I would like about them if given the opportunity to ride one.

I refer to downshifting when entering and accelerating out of a corner engaging.  This is why when I was test driving sports cars back in 2018 the Mazda Miata bubbled to the top as the most engaging sports car at speeds below "go to jail speeds".  I test drove an Audi Quatro TT, Honda S2000, several different model corvettes, Boxter, 370Z, Z3, Z4, Camaro SS, Mustang GT, etc.  All manual shift cars.   The salesman for the Mustang GT said I could pretty much leave it in 5th gear most of the time. 

Regarding the little winglets I would have to make my own decision on them.  I am well aware that tiny changes in airflow across the bike can make a difference.  The V85TT dumps a lot of air into the crotch which is great in the summertime, but not so much in the winter.  Folks have been adding these tiny deflectors that supposedly remove that flow of air.  Maybe you would have to be wearing mesh riding pants to really notice it, or be in extreme weather temps or rain.

I have ridden the BMW GS and Pan America.  Both great bikes that I would have been proud to own 10 years ago, but for how I ride today they would be major overkill.  The 2022 Pan America Enthusiast Edition has really caught my attention.  Had I not have purchased a 2022 V85TT, I might be on one now. 

[mechanicsavant]

IMHO , Riding a new, low mile bike may not be the same as that bike with 15k + miles on it . I’ve owned 4 new BMW’s & a pair of Guzzi’s all of these bikes changed character somewhat with miles put on them . The Guzzi’s shifted much better once about 10k miles were put on & the motors loosened up & ran better @ about 15k Mi.
A similar experience with the Beemers . The change in the BMW engine was more pronounced. A dealership technician alleged that @ a certain mileage once “settled in” the map changed slightly as the bike passed a threshold for requirements as to emissions,
The Guzzi’s were similar just less pronounced.
YRMV