Author Topic: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild  (Read 41444 times)

Online siabeid

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v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« on: December 26, 2016, 01:56:52 PM »
     I started taking the Idaho fence post v7 sport apart to rebuild it a few weeks ago, but haven't been able to do much in the lead up to Christmas.  All in all, it is coming apart pretty well. There are insect nests and/or sand packed into almost any place where there is a space - like between the tail light assembly and the rear fender for example. It is pretty interesting to see how that stuff can get packed in there.
     I  have a little time to work on it this week and am trying to pull the exhaust and top end off the engine.  The left exhaust header nut WILL NOT come loose. The flange that the wrench hooks onto is even starting to break apart, but the threads will not budge in the head. The old farm equipment mechanic in me wants to  heat up the head in the threaded area with a torch to try to unscrew it, but it makes me a little nervous doing that to the alloy head. An Italian motorcycle engine seems a little more delicate than a rusted up hay baler!
     Any other suggestions for loosening that nut? Does the torch idea seem like it wouldn't be too brutal? It has been soaking in Moov-it for almost a month now, but still no movement.

Thanks,
Si Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2016, 02:15:54 PM »
I'd heat it up.

Offline Tom H

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2016, 02:28:02 PM »
I believe it has the large nut that goes around the header and has slots for a hook style spanner.

Heat it and tap it with a hammer inward towards the head. Might also try tightening it, sometimes that will "start" to break it loose.

If all fails, a large pipe wrench should do it, but then you would probably need a new nut. They are available as well as the head can be re-threaded.

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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2016, 02:38:16 PM »
Often a few whacks with a hammer can help shock loose corrosion.  I wouldn't heat the aluminum part you're trying to turn, since that will make it bigger.  That is if it's a male threaded thing that screws into a female threaded part of the head, which I think it is.
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2016, 02:38:16 PM »

Online chuck peterson

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2016, 03:02:03 PM »
Do you need new cylinders? If yes, then why bother?
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Offline Two Checks

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2016, 03:07:41 PM »
50/50 mix of atf and acetone.
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2016, 03:40:45 PM »
Yes, try heating the head.  The heads are aluminum, and the nuts are steel.  Different rates of expansion.

Still have to get the headers off the heads, then remove the heads to ultimately remove the cylinders. 

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2016, 04:06:20 PM »
This was the one rescued in a recent thread right?  I do hope this is the start of a project-long thread, and that you will write about your experiences (and post pics) as you go.
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2016, 04:27:03 PM »
Heat the head if you can, but this usually isn't very effective while it's still attached to the bike, since you'll be heating the cylinder and more besides. Takes quite a large heat source to warm it enough to be effective.

The only thing that has worked for me (and only 20% of the time) in this situation is to "throw everything at it": all at the same time, heat it, drown it in penetrant and use an air hammer with a chisel ground blunt to try to move it.

All of that failed on my latest project, so I cut the header pipe off, removed the head and took it to my local machine shop. They very careful mill through the pipe and the nut in two places opposite each other and then the remnants are fairly easily removed.
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2016, 05:24:22 PM »
This thread is worthless without pitchers..  :smiley:
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Offline ritratto

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2016, 05:24:45 PM »
Have never seen anything that liquid wrench and a few day won't loosen up. Soak it several times.
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Offline lti_57

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2016, 05:39:58 PM »
Have never seen anything that liquid wrench and a few day won't loosen up. Soak it several times.
I have great luck with heat and PB Blaster or even WD40 heat it  spray let soak. repeat
some times a nice whack  can shock it
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2016, 05:41:20 PM »
Yes, try heating the head.  The heads are aluminum, and the nuts are steel.  Different rates of expansion.

 
there are no nuts . correction I see they are called ring nuts..



Do you need new cylinders? If yes, then why bother?
what he said..
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 05:48:03 PM by fotoguzzi »
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 05:51:43 PM »
there are no nuts . correction I see they are called ring nuts..


what he said..

Whaddya mean "no nuts"?   I'm looking right at one in the photo.  They screw into the head like a loopframe.
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 06:26:49 PM »
Whaddya mean "no nuts"?   I'm looking right at one in the photo.  They screw into the head like a loopframe.
  correction I see they are called ring nuts..
 
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2016, 06:55:49 PM »
Do you need new cylinders? If yes, then why bother?
what he said..

Umm, because the header nuts thread into the heads not the cylinders? New cylinders won't magically make the stuck header nuts come loose.  :grin: :wink:

In my experience, 80% of the time in this situation, PB Blaster, WD-40 and Liquid Wrench aren't going to do a darn thing except make a mess and smell up the place. Nor will Freeze Off, Kroil, ATF/acetone or whatever other weird concoction you care to name. Believe me, I've tried them all at one time or another and even with heat, they have little effect. Sometimes stuck is stuck.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 06:59:28 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2016, 07:29:58 PM »
Umm, because the header nuts thread into the heads not the cylinders? New cylinders won't magically make the stuck header nuts come loose.  :grin: :wink:

What HE said.  Drop microphone.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 07:30:54 PM by Cam3512 »
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2016, 07:55:02 PM »
What HE said.  Drop microphone.
Oh yeah DUH,  your right!  I'm a dummy..

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2016, 09:02:02 PM »
If the headers are salvageable, I'd go to heroic lengths to save them because I'm.. uh.. cheap. If they're not, saw those suckers off and let's get with the program. Pictures or it didn't happen. <shrug> We need an epic build thread to make it through the winter.  :smiley:
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2016, 09:13:50 PM »
  We need an epic build thread to make it through the winter.  :smiley:
I'm working on that.. an 850T conversion to a V7Sport.. My buddy Bones has taken on the build and I'll be the fotog.. should be delivered in boxes next week..
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2016, 09:39:23 PM »
If the headers are salvageable, I'd go to heroic lengths to save them because I'm.. uh.. cheap. If they're not, saw those suckers off and let's get with the program. Pictures or it didn't happen. <shrug> We need an epic build thread to make it through the winter.  :smiley:

The reproductions MG Cycle sells are very good quality and cheaper than having the originals rechromed.
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Offline Hahnda

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2016, 10:09:37 PM »
The original nuts are fairly soft. If you try using any amount of force on them they just start breaking apart. I have had to cut a couple pipes off to get the nut out. A dremel tool, chisel, hammer, and a bit of time will eventually get them out.

Cut the pipe off with hacksaw, angle grinder, or your tool of choice. Small cutoff wheel on a dremel to cut around the remains of the pipe from the inside to remove most of it. Dremel tool to score the inside of the nut but not far enough that you get into the threads. Hammer and chisel to fold the nut in on itself.
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Offline SED

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2016, 11:55:06 PM »
Wonder if the nut is seized to the pipe as much as the head?

Not sure if it's possible, but how about removing the head with the pipe and putting both in an oven at about 300*F.  Give it an hour to heat up.  Anchor the head then pull on the pipe to loosen the nut.  With two people, one could pull on the pipe and the other use a wrench or impact hammer on the nut. 

You'd have to figure out a way to anchor the head without damaging it (between two 4x4s cut to fit?) and probably have to cut the pipe to get in in the oven but if it were left long it would give lots of leverage.

You do have an oven in the shop?!  :thewife:

Hahnda's way may be less likely to damage the threads in the head.
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2016, 03:42:49 AM »
Looking forward to the build
luckily my loop had the headers off when the PO parked it in a wet garage for 20 years.
If you find the front engine bolt seized in place cut right through the alloy spacers and bolt with a hacksaw, its an easy task to make new spacers.
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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2016, 08:51:12 AM »
Looking forward to the build
luckily my loop had the headers off when the PO parked it in a wet garage for 20 years.
If you find the front engine bolt seized in place cut right through the alloy spacers and bolt with a hacksaw, its an easy task to make new spacers.

There are no spacers on the front engine bolt of Tonti-frame Guzzis - the frame lugs are right up against the timing cover. The bolt is exposed to the elements as well, making it more likely to seize.

Wonder if the nut is seized to the pipe as much as the head?

The pipe isn't usually seized at all - you can rotate it all you want, even to the point that the copper sealing ring is nearly destroyed and the pipe is loose. But, the header nut will still be stuck. 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 08:52:25 AM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
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Offline Motogogo

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2016, 09:34:21 AM »
Could try heating it up and then melt some wax into the threads.
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Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2016, 11:01:26 AM »
This thread is worthless without pitchers..  :smiley:

Preferably pitchers of Whiskey.  That always helps.
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Offline JoeW

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2016, 11:06:24 AM »
Remove the head and soak it in white vinegar for a day or two.
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2016, 05:04:11 PM »
I haven't had good luck with aluminum and vinegar. The aluminum tends to get eaten away.

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Re: v7 sport "fence post" rebuild
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2016, 05:16:07 PM »
I posted this awhile ago on another thread:

https://youtu.be/KFdFsfSAuyc

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