To coat or not to coat?

[MLR]

I had this paint bubble appear on my tank a couple months ago. Fortunately it is still under warranty and my new tank has arrived at the dealer. I asked about having the new tank coated before installation but they are having difficulty locating someone willing to do it. I was wondering if you guys think ethanol or just a bad paint job is the culprit.  Anyone have any experience using Caswell?

[Triple Jim]

Metal tank or plastic?

A friend makes fiberglass tanks and bodywork for motorcycles, and lines the tanks with Caswell's Phenol Novolac epoxy before he ships them.  That type of epoxy is used to line industrial fuel storage tanks, and it resists the current gasoline blends very well.  It's also thick, so it makes a thick coating, and since it's epoxy, it hardens reasonably quickly without having to evaporate a lot of solvent.

[fotoguzzi]

what bike? I can't get your pics to enlarge.. metal tank, no problem with ethanol.

[MLR]

It's a 2012 Norge with a plastic tank.

[Triple Jim]

It's a 2012 Norge with a plastic tank.

In that case I'd call or email Caswell and ask what they recommend, and find out if their liner will stick to that tank.

[canuguzzi]

Why should we be coating fuel tanks?  MG knows about the problem and they need to get over it,  ethanol is in fuels today.  The technology exists to fix the problem and it isn't the responsibility of the owner who paid good money for a top of the line MG to fix it.

I also have a fuel tank on a Norge with a bubble (not as big though)  and as much as I like my Norge,  they will either replace it or tthey'll get the entire lot back,  California's lemon law puts the burden on the manufacturer to prove it isn't defective. MG is stating that bubbles are not leaks and therefore not safety issues.  Since when is a warranty for defective design or manufacture only for safety issues?

If all MG does is replace one fuel tank with a known problem with another made identically,  that is not a solution nor does it absolve them of replacing the replacement tank if that too bubbles.

One of the main reasons for plastic tanks was to avoid rusting which is what the coatings were all about.

IMHO  the more we take expensive things like this on the chin,  the more they stay the same.  A fuel tank on a motorcycle is an integral part of the design of the bike.  If the hood on a car started bubbling (nnot the paint)  there would be a recall in short order.  If your helmet started bubbling we'd all jump too.

I won't coat my tank because anything else goes wrong with it,  you eat it.  As it is as they made it,  they either replace it and keep replacing those that bubble or swell or they eat it,  all of it.

Sorry for the rant.

[wymple]

I have to agree. There is no excuse for not fixing the cause of the problem at the factory. And I don't care one twit what the tank is made of, ethanol has been here for 4 decades, and making compatible materials is far from difficult. It's ridiculous.

[MLR]

I will say they were really cool about replacing it. I just sent pictures in and they approved it no questions asked. I have been told that the tanks are made by Acerbis, and that the problems with them are not just confined to Moto Guzzi. I guess my reasoning about coating it was I intend to keep the bike a long time and I don't want it bubbling again after it is out of warranty. You make some good points though.

[fotoguzzi]

I have to agree. There is no excuse for not fixing the cause of the problem at the factory. And I don't care one twit what the tank is made of, ethanol has been here for 4 decades, and making compatible materials is far from difficult. It's ridiculous.

Um, since Henry Ford actually.. He wanted to use ethanol (cause it can be produced anywhere) rather than Gasoline but big oil killed it.

did you know Brazil is exclusively ethanol? they don't import any oil.

[Wayne Orwig]

I guess my reasoning about coating it was I intend to keep the bike a long time and I don't want it bubbling again after it is out of warranty.

If it were mine, and I got a new tank, AND I got the dealer to OK it, I would coat the new tank with a compatible coating. Even if it was metal it is not a bad idea.

Yes, in a perfect world, the factory should fix it. But even if you got a steel tank, and it rusted out 4 years out of warranty, it is your problem, not the factories. Pointing your finger at the manufacturer on an out of warranty failure may make you feel better, but you still have a bad part. No reason not to be proactive on prevention.

Is POR-15 OK on plastic? Some coatings rely on etching metal so they can adhere to it.

[Triple Jim]

Is POR-15 OK on plastic? Some coatings rely on etching metal so they can adhere to it.

I don't have personal experience, but I've heard from many guys that POR-15 isn't even OK on metal any more.

[Kentktk]

I have to agree. There is no excuse for not fixing the cause of the problem at the factory.

Microsoft never fixes anything at the factory either. They`ve been getting away with it for years and people are dumb enough to keep feeding them hard earned cash for bad products.

[Yukonica]

Microsoft never fixes anything at the factory either. They`ve been getting away with it for years and people are dumb enough to keep feeding them hard earned cash for bad products.

It isn't just "Bill's boy's" issue.
Recent upgrade to Yosemite in the Mac world deleted access to a Apple photography program (Aperture) I upgraded less than 2 years ago.
Without prior warning, or an option to opt out, during the highly promoted OS update Aperture and 11 years of images was... just Gone!
'Tough poop user We don't want you to use that software anymore; we have a higher margin, better controlled product you will use or you will lose the last 11 years of your records'.  Apple is on the same thin consumer's ice Microsoft skated a decade ago.
From my end: All architecture is reasonably compatible therefore all manufactures no longer have cache or cool factor. Steve is dead.

[Kentktk]

Backup is recommended no matter who you use, that`s basic. Microsoft`s business model to sell a bad product so you can buy another of their bad products to fix the bad product is unequaled. They are the best at convincing people that they haven`t been screwed again.........and then again.

[kirkemon]

Recent upgrade to Yosemite in the Mac world deleted access to a Apple photography program (Aperture) I upgraded less than 2 years ago.
Without prior warning, or an option to opt out, during the highly promoted OS update Aperture and 11 years of images was... just Gone!

All the Final Cut Pro users have been in the same boat! Most of us have switched to Adobe Premiere Pro.

[Triple Jim]

did you know Brazil is exclusively ethanol? they don't import any oil.

I was interested in this, so I emailed a friend who lives in Brazil.  Here's his reply:


Brazil actually produces most of its own oil and seasonaly imports fuel or oil according to market demand changes.

We have following fuel options at the pump stations, besides diesel and natural gas:

1 - Premium gas, with very high octane and low sulfur, but it has 23 to 25% ethyl alcohol and costs US$ 1.45/liter.
2 - Regular and aditivated gas with 27% ethyl alcohol and costs app. US$ 1.05/liter.
3 - 100% ethyl alcohol and costs US$ 0.80/liter. 

It is not true that all cars are fueled with 100% ethanol, but I'd guess that half of the cars owners use it.
Most cars are flexfuel, so they may run on any of the 3 fuels alone or at any mix rate, but I personally have my Honda civic using the 1 and 2 fuels above.

Pure gasoline is only available for aircrafts and not to the public.