Author Topic: Guzziology - Disappointed  (Read 12365 times)

Offline JC85

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Guzziology - Disappointed
« on: March 23, 2019, 12:15:53 PM »
I recently purchased Dave Richardson's Guzziology on amazon (the physical book, not the Kindle version.) I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in it. From the description (and the $50 price tag,) I expected it to be a full on technical manual with detailed instructions and illustrations. Instead, most of it seems to be just general information on parts and engine configurations, and the few maintenance instructions are written, only, with no photos or illustrations. Granted, there is still a LOT of information in there, and a good number of tips, but I was hoping for a book that would walk me through procedures like adjusting valves, disassembling the top end of the engine, replacing my clutch, etc. Maybe I need to give it some more time and reading, but so far, it's a lot less useful than I'd hoped.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 12:24:07 PM by JC85 »
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2019, 12:34:48 PM »
It was never meant to be that type of a manual, but rather to supplement the factory manual.

Have you seen these? They'll probably be more help (as would joining the Loopframe Guzzi Yahoo group
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Loopframe_Guzzi/info).

http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_workshop_manuals___shop_manuals___service_manuals.html
Charlie

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2019, 12:36:41 PM »
 It was never intended to be a repair or service manual , more of a *what fits what* general reference , along with some basic history . Keep digging , it contains lots of interesting details . After reading it , if it doesn't give you the desired info , someone will buy it .

 Dusty

Offline JC85

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2019, 12:39:53 PM »
It was never intended to be a repair or service manual , more of a *what fits what* general reference , along with some basic history . Keep digging , it contains lots of interesting details . After reading it , if it doesn't give you the desired info , someone will buy it .

 Dusty

Yea, I completely misunderstood what us was supposed to be. I'm sure I'll still hang on to it, though, as it does still seem to be really interesting and have a lot of good general tips. Is there a "best" repair/service manual you'd recommend for the old Eldorados?
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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2019, 12:39:53 PM »

Offline JC85

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2019, 12:41:27 PM »
It was never meant to be that type of a manual, but rather to supplement the factory manual.

Have you seen these? They'll probably be more help (as would joining the Loopframe Guzzi Yahoo group
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Loopframe_Guzzi/info).

http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_workshop_manuals___shop_manuals___service_manuals.html

Thanks!
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Offline leafman60

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2019, 12:48:56 PM »
The purpose and benefit of Guzziology is that it contains a lifetime of hands-on experience to provide a lot of information not found in a how-to shop manual.  Guzzi is a quirky machine.  You cannot always go by the official "book" when dealing with one. 

.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 12:49:24 PM by leafman60 »

Offline SED

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2019, 12:53:13 PM »
As soon as you start doing the work it will become the go-to.  It fills in the holes in the shop manuals and parts books.  For all the maintenance stuff - oil changes to tire changes - I only ever grab Guzziology because it contains all the little details and tricks that are not in the factory manual or I forgot.  You'll like it.

Download a PDF copy of the factory shop manual from This Old Tractor, print it and put the pages in plastic sleeves in a binder and you have a durable shop copy for about $25.


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Online s1120

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2019, 01:13:08 PM »
The purpose and benefit of Guzziology is that it contains a lifetime of hands-on experience to provide a lot of information not found in a how-to shop manual.  Guzzi is a quirky machine.  You cannot always go by the official "book" when dealing with one. 

.

Sorry to bust in here...  But I was thinking of getting it, but kinda wondering if there is useful info on some of the newer machines?  Wondering if its worth the buy for my 02 California stone.
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2019, 01:54:17 PM »
Yes it contains updates covering 2002 models and newer small blocks maybe not the latest single TB models.
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Online chuck peterson

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2019, 02:27:40 PM »
makes a really great winter read... :thumb: When I had dragged a Convert home that was leaking from every seal, I knew what I needed to keep and maintain it because of that book...fascinating from a model development point of view and 500 pages of fix it tutorials, ...parts number replacements...etc. ..kept me riding for a decade or more. Thanks Dave!
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Offline JC85

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2019, 03:44:54 PM »
Gotta say, thanks for all of the input and advice. Also, since I'm fairly new to this board/group, glad that I could get a good conversation going! This is a great community.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 08:21:37 PM by JC85 »
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Offline DAMMAG

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2019, 07:05:48 PM »
Maybe it had more relevance in the pre internet forum days. Before you could do a Google search or ask a question on a forum.

Offline Kev m

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 07:35:08 PM »
I can imagine it was a great reference once... Especially for those restoring bikes.

As some one who has spent a lifetime in the technical publishing industry I shared the OP's opinion.

Though I still understand how it might have a bunch of hidden pearls, there didn't seem to be anything relevant to me.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 05:56:58 AM by Kev m »
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Offline Ncdan

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2019, 07:59:13 PM »
I bet there ain't nothing in the book I can't get from asking a question here and a quick response from the guys on this forum:)

Offline Kristian

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2019, 02:45:59 AM »
Did you read the inside title page before you bought it?

Did you consider the incredible amount of knowledge and experience you're getting for a measly $50, which barely buys dinner for two or 1/2 hour of mechanic's time?

Offline Huzo

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2019, 03:27:25 AM »
Jeez that’s gotta be a pain.
If Roper and Beetle jointly wrote a book I’d pay twice that, especially if it focussed on stuff we have around these days. Would sell a lot I’d imagine.
Entertaining too..
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 03:28:24 AM by Huzo »

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2019, 07:06:43 AM »
 I bought Guzziology and liked reading all the info on carbs, jetting ,gearing and so on...Moto Guzzi's ,especially push  rod engines, are actually quite simple machines.Disassembl y in the proper order is not difficult. About the same complexity as a 70's Chevy truck...What is quirky is some of the engineering used but certainly not worse that other European machines.

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2019, 08:12:22 AM »
I bet there ain't nothing in the book I can't get from asking a question here and a quick response from the guys on this forum:)
from people who have read Guzziology and committed it to memory.
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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2019, 10:18:32 AM »
from people who have read Guzziology and committed it to memory.

And if they don't have it committed to memory they can go look it up! :thumb: Admittedly, lots more info on big blocks and early small blocks but priceless to me. 

Offline Ncdan

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2019, 11:04:16 AM »
from people who have read Guzziology and committed it to memory.
Mostly from folks who have hands on experience, as well as book learning.

Offline mtiberio

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2019, 09:26:05 AM »
OMG, the amount of product knowledge and what fits what in Guzziology is simply not repeated anywhere else. You too could learn it independently, but like I always say, any education cost money. $50 is cheap.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2019, 09:30:23 AM »
OMG, the amount of product knowledge and what fits what in Guzziology is simply not repeated anywhere else. You too could learn it independently, but like I always say, any education cost money. $50 is cheap.

But aside from some history, it is borderline utterly useless to a rider of late-model Guzzi motorcycles. That's something that people extolling its benefits probably should share with the newbies. If you've got no interest in some history lessons and no interest in restoring old Guzzis it is not worth $0.10.

That's not a differentiation that most people make when mentioning it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 08:44:15 AM by Kev m »
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Offline John Croucher

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2019, 09:53:13 AM »
It was never meant to be that type of a manual, but rather to supplement the factory manual.

Have you seen these? They'll probably be more help (as would joining the Loopframe Guzzi Yahoo group
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Loopframe_Guzzi/info).

http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_workshop_manuals___shop_manuals___service_manuals.html


Add this also to your Favorites.  These are all great sources.  I have used them extensively and find them very help full.  Along with the V11 Sport Forum.
https://archive.guzzitech.com/

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2019, 03:01:51 PM »

Add this also to your Favorites.  These are all great sources.  I have used them extensively and find them very help full.  Along with the V11 Sport Forum.
https://archive.guzzitech.com/

Not a lot of information there for an (original) Eldorado...
Charlie

Offline AZRider

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2020, 11:57:09 PM »
I have several editions of Guzziology, the newest being 2014.  It’s got a lot less to offer for my Stelvio than for my Tonti frame California EV and my wife’s Breva 750. I cannot speak to newer editions.

For me when working on the early 2000’s bikes and older, it’s very valuable because it points out things that I would not have known to look for if just following the factory manual. It has tips to simplify many tasks. It’s offered work arounds for problems I have encountered.

The Wildgoose forum has been around at least almost as long as I have been riding and wrenching on Guzzis, and I have always been glad to have a paper Guzziology in the garage. While the good people here could answer almost any questions I have, the book is available when something’s running late into the night. And many times I discovered things that I would not have thought to ask before I got up to my elbows in whatever I learned from reading the book before I did the job. And it can be tiring to sort out who is posting wisdom on a forum vs. who’s posting a repeat of some foolishness that has been circulating. Dave’s advice is pretty damn reliable. As others have said, $50 gets you a lifetime of wisdom from one of the best scholars of our little world. Even the latest edition may not have as much for the owner of a newer Guzzi (for all I know), but it definitely has a lot of insight into how to approach the things that come up when working on motorcycles, and Guzzi changes so little over the years that you never know what pieces are still there because of how it worked thirty years ago
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Offline 80CX100

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2020, 12:56:30 AM »
Quote from: Ncdan on March 23, 2019, 07:59:13 PM
I bet there ain't nothing in the book I can't get from asking a question here and a quick response from the guys on this forum:)

from people who have read Guzziology and committed it to memory.

^^^^^This; when I first got into guzzis, the best thing I did was get a copy of Guzziology, I just about wore my copy out studying it, so much for the plastic binding spine, it bit the dust long ago,  :evil: the book gave me a very good basic understanding of guzzi's engineering, design and changes over the years.  :thumb:

      I rarely pick it up anymore, but every now and then, I reach for it and it usually has the answer I'm looking for.

      The book's very existence is a testament to Dave Richardson, it must have been a huge monstrous undertaking to compile and publish  :bow:

      The information in it for recent years my be a little skimpy, but for the last 50? years, I find it a good basic reference to have on hand.

       Kelly
     

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Offline Matt Story

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2020, 08:54:12 PM »
It has been an invaluable resource for me in the course of rebuilding my 850-T.  I was buying some of my parts from the late Larry Klein of GT Motors in Lansing MI.  On my first trip there for parts for the T, He strongly implored me to buy Guzziology.  He said if I bought it I could call as much as I wanted to ask questions and wryly implied the corollary.  I never regretted it.

Along with that I have a Haynes manual which is as thorough as any shop manual I have experience with.  It has step by step instructions for common maintenance to rebuild procedures for most if not all of the bike.

Also, I downloaded the Guzzi shop manual in PDF as well as the exploded view parts manual showing drawings of all assemblies.

Add to that Greg Benders great articles, great instructional documents by Pete and others,

I doubt there is another bike model which has better or a more complete set of documentation.  The factory shop manual even has dimensional drawings of the frame.

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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2020, 09:04:30 PM »
One of the best shop manuals I ever had was for a 1973 Kawasaki. For example, it went on for pages on how to redo the valve seats and why. It even gave a detail description of why the brake piston seals and the seal grooves are shaped they way they are shaped. Very exact on how to get the bike back to original specs.
But, Guzziology is not supposed to be that. If is filled with tips and tricks. Gives info on the transmission ratios of one Guzzi to another. What carb needles tend to work best in which bike. It provides info for someone that may want to 'hack' the specs a bit.
Very different, and very useful in both cases.

 
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Offline Cdn850T5NT

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2020, 10:55:40 PM »
One of the best shop manuals I ever had was for a 1973 Kawasaki. For example, it went on for pages on how to redo the valve seats and why. It even gave a detail description of why the brake piston seals and the seal grooves are shaped they way they are shaped. Very exact on how to get the bike back to original specs.
But, Guzziology is not supposed to be that. If is filled with tips and tricks. Gives info on the transmission ratios of one Guzzi to another. What carb needles tend to work best in which bike. It provides info for someone that may want to 'hack' the specs a bit.
Very different, and very useful in both cases.
Speaking of Kawasaki manuals, I happened upon a Kawasaki manual that gave detailed instructions on how the built-up crankshaft for the two stroke triples... 350, 500, 750 is done.  Blew me away... i) with the detail in the manual; and ii) what a nightmare it must be to assemble and true said crankshafts...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 10:56:26 PM by Cdn850T5NT »
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Offline fossil

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Re: Guzziology - Disappointed
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2020, 03:14:32 AM »
Jeez that’s gotta be a pain.
If Roper and Beetle jointly wrote a book I’d pay twice that, especially if it focussed on stuff we have around these days. Would sell a lot I’d imagine.
Entertaining too..

But please together with Kev M.
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