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So aside from the superb craftmanship of the gears and the change of sound, are you expecting any change in performance (torque or acceleration or top end or fuel consumption or other typical KPI)? Just curious as to why the route of changing to the gears vs. replacing with the original setup, other than it can be done, and it's cool to do so.Thanks!
Elegance. It could be argued, and indeed succinctly that installing gears is actually going back to the original setup.Ciao
Whenever I put gears in a Guzzi, seems like it makes better throttle response. I’ll bet you may notice that, especially with those gears.
/2 BMW did fine with timing gears. They did have a tube that pumped oil directly at the junction between the two timing gears.
I actually considered mounting them on a pair of shafts and spin them under light load submersed in oil, if my initial diagnosis comes up as too tight.I will not start the bike again unless there is some lash present when cold.It matters not to me how much the clearance opens up when hot, I just will not do it.Also.I’m open to some educating on the topic of getting the lash perfect so as to ensure completely accurate valve timing.I figure that if there is .002” lash instead of say .004”, that’s a 2 thou error.Now a 2 thou’ error in the rotation of the cam gear over say a 50 mm radius, will translate to a 0.0004” difference in the rotation of a cam lobe of 10 mm radius.The numbers may not be accurate, but you can see how the error diminishes.How much earlier/later will the valve begin to open or close with the lobe arriving half a thou’ early or late ?I would suggest that such a tolerance would be similar to having your valve clearance one thou’ out and nobody would wet their pants over that.
Hmmm, the only thing I can compare it to are the gear driven cams on my Vfr750, although they are slash cut gears. Four cams and two connecting gears were in aluminium casings and went on forever.
Way too much overthinking here Huzo. Even with zero backlash cold thats fine it will get some as the engine warms. The crank front bearing clearance can be up to .060mm clearance and the same for the front cam journal so even tight the crank and cam journal will move to allow for the lack of clearance. If the gears fit when cold then they'll be fine, if they won't fit then you have an issue. Don't overthink it. It's like Ducati main bearing end float it set to -.1-.15mm, yes that means that when the engines cold there is compressive load on the crank main bearings from the crankcases. When you torque up the vertically split cases the cases stretch .1-.15mm and preload the crank mains. When the cases warm up with the engine running the preload reduces to near zero. Want to think about that every time you start your Ducati? Of course not. Same with the gears, if they fit cold then they are ok.Ciao
I actually considered mounting them on a pair of shafts and spin them under light load submersed in oil, if my initial diagnosis comes up as too tight.I will not start the bike again unless there is some lash present when cold.It matters not to me how much the clearance opens up when hot, I just will not do.
Way too much overthinking here Huzo. Even with zero backlash cold thats fine it will get some as the engine warms. The crank front bearing clearance can be up to .060mm clearance and the same for the front cam journal so even tight the crank and cam journal will move to allow for the lack of clearance. If the gears fit when cold then they'll be fine, if they won't fit then you have an issue.Ciao
Ok Phil.I am heavily tempted (and probably will) go with yours and others counsel. I did realise that I was probably over thinking it, but I’m a bit of a bugger for that....Pete Roper has sourced a new pump for me and it’s en route. When I install it, I will properly check the gear train out.I have had them in once and run the engine for a short while.While on the topic of all this, what is the correct way to treat a loctited nut prior to removal ?Is it an application of heat and if so how much ?I do have a rattle gun to facilitate removal, but I’d like to know what the go is...
Red Loctite on the oil pump nut, heat. Around 220 deg C to get it to release. I have an infrared thermometer I use for this purpose. Useful on alloy parts like axle/caliper support brackets where overheating is something you want to avoid. Hit it with a propane burner for a short sharp application then rattle it off if you like but manual wrenching will work. Ciao
Pete Roper has sourced a new pump for me and it’s en route. When I install it, I will properly check the gear train out.I have had them in once and run the engine for a short while
I think the coefficient of expansion is greater for the aluminium. Given that there is more mass, I think the crankcase will get “taller”, thus increasing the lash.On my first assembly, I started the bike and it just sounded......”tight”.The thought of the two shafts closing up with no clearance was a concern, so I temporarily threw the chain back in.I considered rigging up a jig to spin them under load for a time to bed them in before refitting.Unsure as yet...
A thought Huzo. Did you pre oil the timing chest before the first start? I add 3-400ml of oil through the ignition pickup hole before the first start after the cover is installed and also apply a small amount of grease by brush to each gear tooth on assembly.Ciao
Did that solve the issue?
I have not received the pump yet.In any case, the Norge is on the water somewhere between Singapore and England.
Where is it landing Huzo?
Hoped it was Liverpool, you could have stayed a day or two to recuperate. Never mind, there's always another day 👍
So I’m not allowed to visit ?
Of course you are, plenty of room. 👍
I’m a bit embarrassed to admit it, but you all deserve the truth.I did apply a little grease on the teeth, thinking it would deposit around after startup.I should have done better.However when I cracked open the timing chest to re install the chain, the gears were well soaked in oil.
Nah mate, just an indulgence pretty much.However..I do like the notion of a perceived simpler arrangement and I love the idea that there is no load on the oil pump due to chain tension.I acknowledge the fact that the bike has done 200,000 km with the standard setup though. I will run the gears for an appropriate time to allow them to settle in, but they’ll need to quieten down a bit….(and probably will).
Does your engine breathe through the cam gear Huzo? Does it have the breather hose running off the l/h side of the timing chain cover?Ciao