linked vs de-linked, discuss

[Anomaly]

The thread title pretty much says it all. Looking to learn more of the pros and cons of each option. Related issue: what would be involved in trying to resurrect the linked system (hypothetically...) on a "de-linked" bike without the original parts on hand?

[pehayes]

You soon get very comfortable with the linked system.  Or, you hate it and quickly switch away.
One issue with linked brakes is when riding off road.  On a steep downhill, any use of the front brake can cause an easy lockup and spill.  With the linked system you can't brake without simultaneous use of of the front.  I had a bad situation several times.  Probably shouldn't have been there on a touring bike.  Had to stop at the top, turn OFF the engine, shift to first gear, roll down the hill using the clutch to feather and gradually lock/slide the rear wheel without using any front action or with a very gentle hand brake action.  Get to the bottom, restart and and off  you go.

Give it some time.  Once you get adjusted  you likely won't go back.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Kiwi_Roy]

Apart from what Patrick mentioned I love the linked brakes on the California II I had and the Convert I currently own.
I don't know what the ratio of front to rear is but they seem to have got it right IMHO

[Adv_hoon]

I have ridden 1000 km's since I bought my first Guzzi and will probably de-link it. For the same reasons as another one mentioned. You cannot use the back brake exclusively. Apart from running off-road, it can also be useful if you want to brake somewhere there is a lot of dust, gravel or anything else on the tarmac. In these situations I would use the rear brake primarily and avoid the front. But with the linked system it is impossible to avoid the front brake.

[Gliderjohn]

IMHO for most of us mere mortals the linked system has probably saved quite a few more butts than it has caused problems to. In a panic brake setting it is nice just to be able to mash the pedal and have strong controlled braking, at least on pavement.
GliderJohn

[blackcat]

Linked are fine if that is the only bike you have but I have five other bikes that are not linked and one linked. And the only reason it is linked is because I wanted everything to be stock on the 76 LeMans. In the end I wish I hadn't linked them and will probably de-link the LeMans in time.

I used my CX for the longest time with linked brakes as a commuter bike, and on a trip to the Blue Ridge Parkway on my 1000S I had to do a panic stop and used the foot brake instead of the front brakes and locked up the rear tire. When I got back home I de-linked the CX brakes.

[Dave Swanson]

I like the feel of linked brakes.  It gives a sure footed feel to a vintage bike.  No de-linking for me. 

[moto-uno]

  After de-linking the brakes you'll probably notice more front lever travel with the smaller piston feeding
4 pistons instead of just 2 . I eventually used the front m/cyl from an old Yamaha 650 Seca that seemed
a good replacement . It's been in use for over a decade ! YMMV , Peter

[Mr Revhead]

I absolutely love the linked brakes on my EV and T5.
My Sport 1100 (now sold) I would have hated them.

For touring and normal riding linked are much better. For sporty riding? If you're good enough normal is probably better.  Different style of riding.

I never had an issue swapping between the two systems.

[fotoguzzi]

I have a full front not linked system from a Centauro with two calipers, SS lines and the correct M/C for 2 with lever.
If someone want to put together a dual front bike. Selling cheap.

[John Croucher]

I de linked my 2003.  Replaced with appropriate m.c.  I like the results.  Two fingers front and hard to lock up rear. Using HH pads.

[actwin]

My take is, I would rather have independent brakes but it won't stop me from buying a bike that has linked brakes. I've had Guzzi linked,Kawasaki linked and Goldwing f6b linked. The Kaw is the only one with linked abs, I was more confident on that.

[Texas Turnip]

I've ridden down Mt Washington in the rain with linked brakes. No problem. The road to Pikes Peak used to be all gravel and I've ridden down it with linked brakes.

I reckon if you are are a gen-u-wine motorsickle rider you would not like the linked brakes.

When this thread popped up a number of years ago I said I found the linked brakes dangerous as I left the beer joint drunk and hit the brakes on an icy bridge. Yessiree them linked brakes are dangerous.

Tex

[moto]

I've tested my T3's linked brakes on gravel surfaces -- to the point of wheel lock, always on the rear wheel first -- w/ no problem. Also braking downhill. They are just excellent brakes. The best thing until ABS came along, and I think they might be better than ABS sometimes.

[PeteS]

A lot depends on what you are used to. I bought my LeMans in 1978 after my Norton. Still had asbestos pads which I found better than any of the modern compounds. The single disk front was light years better than the Dunstall twin disks on my Norton. As I rarely use the foot brake I never felt a need to change it, at least until I started doing track days. More front brake would have been better there.

Pete

[chuck peterson]

I've tested my T3's linked brakes on gravel surfaces -- to the point of wheel lock, always on the rear wheel first -- w/ no problem. Also braking downhill. They are just excellent brakes. The best thing until ABS came along, and I think they might be better than ABS sometimes.

I left 2 advanced rider coachs and three bmw abs equipped riders scratching their collective noggins when a 1978 vert w db bags and windjammer could out-brake them all…for a big touring bike it is/was a beautiful thing, probably life saving for some. Mine didn’t have a proportional valve, but rather a softer higher friction pad front left, and s normal pad rear, normal pad front right w the lever.

Increasing pressure steadily like all good hydraulic braking, made the whole bike squat in such a way as to glue both tires to the floor. Adding the hand lever was merely a bonus. I can pressure a hyd line a lot harder w my foot than my hand…think of it that way..wonderful simple braking system that precluded the general idea of interlocking brake systems. Loved mine, miss it but I’m on a smallblock

[Dukedesmo]

I like the theory of linked brakes but, I found the fact that just using the front brake alone didn't give enough stopping power disconcerting, as such I delinked my LM2 and find it better for me also, because it's now the same as my other bikes.


I have to say that the LM2 is my first (and only) bike that was fitted with linked brakes so I had almost 40 years of 'conventional' brakes, relying on a strong front brake and very little use of the foot/rear brake before riding it, I may feel differently if I'd always had Guzzis?

[Stevex]

De linked my LM2 about 7-8 years ago, using correct sized master cylinders, PS15 front, PS12 rear.
I can't compare to standard de linked brakes as I'm running ss discs and carbon ceramic pads; in this configuration braking is astounding. I rarely use the rear brake.
I think with the 35mm forks, my Showa cartridges, Goodridge braided hoses and NBS fork brace also contribute to the 'normal' system set up being so good. Not forgetting Conti radial tyres.

[Scout63]

I really like the linked brakes. It’s especially nice when riding around town and shifting a lot to be able to just use the pedal and leave the throttle hand free for blipping. They do make me a little lazy though. Linked brakes and floorboards are a wonderful combination Seth...

[Chuck in Indiana]

I've had both of course, but

made the whole bike squat in such a way as to glue both tires to the floor. Adding the hand lever was merely a bonus.

agreed.

I've tested my T3's linked brakes on gravel surfaces -- to the point of wheel lock, always on the rear wheel first -- w/ no problem

agreed again.
I always pretend they aren't linked, and use the front normally. That way when on an unlinked bike there is no muscle memory telling me to stand on the rear brake and lock it up in a panic situation.
However, the OP asked how to resurrect a delinked bike without the original parts on hand. Uh, get the original parts. 

[blackcat]

Yes, get the original parts which are easy to acquire except for the splitter, but be forewarned, linked brakes especially with new lines are not much fun to bleed especially if the splitter does not have a fitting to bleed the air.  Be prepared to split joints.   

[Wayne Orwig]

My California and my EV have integrated brakes. If you apply the rear brake pedal only on gravel, hard, only the rear wheel locks up and the front drags a good bit. About perfect.
My Centauro and Stelvio of course did not have integrated brakes. And I'm sure I would not have wanted them to.

It is pretty easy to try different brake pad compounds to adjust the front to back braking force also.

[guzzisteve]

If you want a link sys splitter that has a bleeder in it get one from a CalVin or later.
Didn't know is anyone mentioned it or not, didn't read all the responses, only a few.
Radial masters also usually have a bleeder.

[Anomaly]

However, the OP asked how to resurrect a delinked bike without the original parts on hand. Uh, get the original parts. 

Ouch! I suppose I deserved that...  As might have been inferred from the original post, I have recently acquired a Guzzi (more about that in a different thread soon) that has been delinked. I have no experience with the linked system but was/am quite interested. The bike is an '81 and I assumed that perhaps the original parts (of which I have none) would be hard to source. Sounds like at least one (the splitter) fits that characterization. But, full marks to Chuck-in-Indiana for being the first to note the second part of my post and the obvious answer!

As for all the responses so far, thanks everyone. But, I didn't realize, this is almost like an oil thread.

[cliffrod]

Yes, get the original parts which are easy to acquire except for the splitter, but be forewarned, linked brakes especially with new lines are not much fun to bleed especially if the splitter does not have a fitting to bleed the air.  Be prepared to split joints.

Is there a preferred approach to bleeding a linked system?  I've never done anything with linked brakes- service or riding-  and the linked brakes with two frozen master cylinders on this new-to-me CX100 will need complete overhaul.

[Anomaly]

  and the linked brakes with two frozen master cylinders on this new-to-me CX100 will need complete overhaul.

Let's stay in touch. 

[blackcat]

Is there a preferred approach to bleeding a linked system?  I've never done anything with linked brakes- service or riding-  and the linked brakes with two frozen master cylinders on this new-to-me CX100 will need complete overhaul.

I've tried all the known ways to bleed those linked brakes from pushing fluid to pumping and they do help, but in the end I always fight the inevitable of opening up each connection and pumping fluid a few times. Messy but with a spray bottle of water to clean up after each connection, it isn't too bad. 

Anyway, start with the front wheel and move your way back to the rear wheel either the old fashion way or with the help of some device. Take Steve's advice and get that valve with the bleeder nipple which should help quite a bit. If you were stripping down your bike to the frame, I'd bench bleed the whole linked system and then install

[cliffrod]

Let's stay in touch. 

.

Yup.  Get in touch anytime. 

I've tried all the known ways to bleed those linked brakes from pushing fluid to pumping and they do help, but in the end I always fight the inevitable of opening up each connection and pumping fluid a few times. Messy but with a spray bottle of water to clean up after each connection, it isn't too bad. 

Anyway, start with the front wheel and move your way back to the rear wheel either the old fashion way or with the help of some device. Take Steve's advice and get that valve with the bleeder nipple which should help quite a bit. If you were stripping down your bike to the frame, I'd bench bleed the whole linked system and then install

Thanks, man.  Right now it's just about getting things to work. A full strip down to frame for a refresh  looks likely, but not yet.

[80CX100]

Is there a preferred approach to bleeding a linked system?  I've never done anything with linked brakes- service or riding-  and the linked brakes with two frozen master cylinders on this new-to-me CX100 will need complete overhaul.

Iirc. When I  changed all the calipers and lines on my CX, what I did was remove the calipers and supported them so they were the highest point of the system, in theory the bubbles worked their way up with gravity.

(Keeping in mind that brake fluid is toxic to paint) I also very carefully loosened all lines at connections, junctions etc.

I had read lot's of horror stories about bleeding the linked brakes, I didn't find it that bad; it was a piece of cake compared to bleeding the hydraulic clutch on my V11.

Idk if I'd go to all of the a/m bother for a standard bleeding, unless the feel wasn't firming up.

fwiw

re the OP, I love the linked brakes. When traction is a bit sketchy or come into a turn a bit too fast, it slows down nicely without drama,,, at times too confidence inspiring,lol.

After a few "shorts changing" moments, due to over confidence in the linked brakes ability to make up for a lack of skill, I now have it ingrained, "in slow, out fast" 

Going down gravel hills, it would be nice to be able to drag a rear brake alone, but I'm mindful and careful, and knock on wood, it's worked out well so far.

[LowRyter]

I absolutely love the linked brakes on my EV and T5.
My Sport 1100 (now sold) I would have hated them.

For touring and normal riding linked are much better. For sporty riding? If you're good enough normal is probably better.  Different style of riding.

I never had an issue swapping between the two systems.

this.  It just works on the Californias, wouldn't have it on my other bikes.