Author Topic: rear main seal? oh-no  (Read 1305 times)

Offline ahoward125

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rear main seal? oh-no
« on: May 05, 2020, 01:20:52 PM »
Ok,
So I think my sputter problem could have been a sticky injector. I bottle fo Techron seems to have the bike running better.
Was on the way back from the Post Office after mailing a check for a set of used, stock mufflers for the 2002 EV when it happened. I was getting on Rt. 15 and I got into the throttle when the motor broke loose and I could feel the clutch slip... Got it home and the inspection plug was damp with oil and there was a drop or two under the bike.
Was dry as a bone before this
Could it be a plugged breather or is my bad luck holding out???

thanks
2002 Cali EV 33K miles
Fresh oil change 100 miles ago

Offline Idontwantapickle

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 02:09:56 PM »
First: don't freak out
Next: determine the kind of oil. Engine oil or gear oil? They each have a unique smell.
That will determine the next step of the path.

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2020, 04:59:57 PM »
if its engine oil check the  large breather hose clamp at the top of the engine.  it can make a small leak into the bell housing if you're lucky
John
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2020, 05:12:44 PM »
  I'm not holding my breath that a "Small" leak into the bell housing can cause the clutch to slip . Assuming your
clutch is adjusted correctly (some free play) , whatever is allowing enough oil in to cause the clutch to slip is probably
going to require a motor, tranny removal  :sad: . Lotsa assumptions here , clutch has not showed signs of slipping
previously , you didn't put a couple of extra liters in at the oil change, etc . Once in there it'll probably be obvious
which seals are failed (change them all anyway , the mileage isn't high , but the age is ). Keep us apprised .  Peter

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2020, 05:12:44 PM »

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2020, 05:13:31 PM »
It's hard for oil from the rear main seal to get past the flywheel and onto the friction discs.. my money on gear lube migrating up the clutch pushrod . There's an o ring fix for that but you have to at minimum remove the swing arm to get at it.
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2020, 07:40:11 PM »
What foto says.
It is a bit difficult for engine oil to get around the flywheel that shields the clutch plates.
It is easy for transmission fluid though. If the clutch pushrod seals leak, that is a fairly easy fix from the rear of the transmission. If the front gasket leaks OR the front bearing fails (sadly too common) that is a transmission out job.

Also, in 2003 and 2004 a lot of them came with a single plate clutch that failed. You should NOT have it in a 2002, but.......
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2020, 07:51:01 PM »
Thatís right, itís almost impossible for engine oil to contaminate the clutch but it could come down from that breather and do it, couldnít it? I doubt thatís the source.  In my experience once the clutch is oiled, itís rooted.
John
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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain

Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 08:01:38 PM »
Techron and all the the other magic in a bottle like SeaFoam are universally amazing! They are amazing at making your wallet lighter
It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

Offline moto-uno

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2020, 12:17:16 PM »
  ^ Kinda curious what that remark about "magic chemicals" has to do with a clutch that's slipping , apparently from oil contamination ?  Peter

Offline MotoG5

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 09:03:42 AM »
I have held off for a bit on jumping in on this as usually several people will offer answers. The one common leak that can put oil into the clutch pretty fast is the seals on the clutch actuation through rod. The tranny oil can come right into the center of the clutch. If you determine that you are indeed seeing tranny oil this is what is most likely to have happened. As others have said it is highly unlikely that it is coming from the engine side.
If enough oil has already gotten into the clutch plates to make them slip I would say that your are going to wind up having to replace  the plates. Not the end of the world and a doable job for the average mechanically inclined with a good set of tools. Lots of threads on how to go about doing the job.
Just replacing the seals on the clutch rod can be done with the transmission in place by pulling the swing arm and would stop the leak but trying to clean up the clutch plates in place has been tried but with little success.
I have done this job over the years several times on mine and others older Guzzis for various reasons and this is my best guess judging from your description of what happened.
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Offline bigbikerrick

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 02:00:09 PM »
I think Moto G5 is correct. If it is your clutch pushrod seals, and you replace those by removing the swingarm, you can always try the "Stoddard solvent clutch flush" afterwards to try and clean some of the gear oil from the friction plates. You dont have much to lose at this point,and it may prevent you having to remove the transmission to replace the clutch right away.
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Offline ahoward125

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 02:47:38 PM »
It is gear oil... I will drain the gearbox and check how much oil was in there...
probably the o-ring, but whatever it is the clutch is toast... :sad:

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 03:19:31 PM »
It is gear oil... I will drain the gearbox and check how much oil was in there...
probably the o-ring, but whatever it is the clutch is toast... :sad:

I think I would try one of the 'flush' deals, where you flush it with mineral spirits or such. But certainly would have low expectations.
Keep in mind that the front transmission bearing may be going out also.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline ahoward125

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 07:41:06 PM »
Fill it with mineral spirits... light it on fire... got it  :evil:

Offline MotoG5

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 08:03:25 PM »
I think I would try one of the 'flush' deals, where you flush it with mineral spirits or such. But certainly would have low expectations.
Keep in mind that the front transmission bearing may be going out also.
Correct on both points Wayne. The only reasons I am leaning toward the clutch rod seals is the age of the bike as opposed to its mileage. And the circumstances of the issue happening. The two cone shaped bushings/seals that are factory items on the clutch rod have been known to fail. Dave Richardson of Moto International came up with the five o-ring mod to prevent this and it did work very well. Front transmission bearing failure usually happens at higher miles than this bike has but I have learned over the years to never say never. :thumb: 
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Offline MotoG5

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2020, 08:08:27 PM »
Fill it with mineral spirits... light it on fire... got it  :evil:

LOL Man do I know that feeling!
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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2020, 08:35:42 PM »
FYI, my trick for getting the o-rings into the back of tranny on the push rod tube. Get an aluminum arrow and cut off about 6" and flatten one end a little bit, this Can slide over the pushrod and apply evenly the pressure needed to get them into the orifice.. one o ring at a time.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 08:36:13 PM by fotoguzzi »
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Offline Luke

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2020, 01:31:15 PM »
A Bic pen with the guts removed works just fine.

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2020, 01:44:05 PM »
Charlie

Offline dguzzi

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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2020, 07:49:58 PM »
Bob is no longer your uncle.   Let us know what you find!
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Re: rear main seal? oh-no
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2020, 08:28:31 PM »
^^^ :grin:
Iíll tell you how to do a proper clutch wash if you want
John
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