Author Topic: Bought a bike, have yet to register/pay taxes on it and might swap w/ a friend?  (Read 634 times)

Offline dave1068

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I know this a long title, I already contacted the DMV and got a vague somewhat workable answer but curious if anyone had this happen to them:

I recently bought a used bike from a dealer, paid cash, got the title, bill of sale, etc. But have not paid sales tax on it or registered it. It takes so long to get a DMV appt due to - that a friend of mine any myself may want to swap bikes.

Is there anyway this can be done without me paying sales tax on mon and then swapping bike on tues and then paying tax on the new bike?

I still have the title the dealership signed over to me. Im thinking either way Ill have to pay taxes but may not have to register it but still have a signed title  with my name on it.

I know states vary with regs, curious if anyone has done this?

Dave
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Offline Tom

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What state?  Somehow they'll want their tax revenue from someone.  Either you pay or your friend does.  Depending on the state, they may only collect on the initial sale when new.  Only dealers are exempt because they pass the taxes onto the buyer.  Did the dealer assign the title to you?  Seems like the dealer would submit the paperwork to DMV and charge a document fee.  If you actually got the title and your name is on it as buyer.
 You'd have to follow through with the transfer from the dealer to you.  Good luck.  (former MV agent Maricopa County, AZ) 
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Offline dave1068

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I have the title and signed the back, oddly enough i went to my state dmv site on FB and the guy must be a biker as i sent a pvt msg, no names of course and he wrote back twice, I have to pay the tax, but dont have to register it, if we do the swap and no money chnages hands, the dmv clerk looks up the bluebook value and we pay taxes on that amt...

Ill see what happens..

Thanks for the reply
Dave
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-2012 Triumph T100
-2013 BMW R1200GSW (gone)
-2013 Triumph Tiger Explorer (gone)
-2012 BMW R1200R classic (gone)
-2009 Moto-Guzzi Stelvio (gone but not forgotten)

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I always report a lower price at the DMV and thus pay a lower tax. I think this is common and wonder if those sales are used by NADA and BB when they set values? So can you believe the BB prices?sometimes I go real low for something like an old Guzzi or a 2002 Winnebago, I think I reported half of what I paid and it went right through, had title in less than 30 days. My state tax is 6.5% so for an RV that really adds up fast.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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In my state you pay tax on purchase price minus trade in value.

So, if a friend  and I swap bikes no sales tax.

If I trade in at a dealer even, no sales tax.

If you write a value too low, then the seller has to sign a paper stating why the bike sold for so little. (Needs repairs,  etc.)

If your name is already on the title your only possible  recourse if you don't want to pay the taxes is get the dealer involved changing the paperwork.
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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In NC you wont pay the highway use tax/prop tax until you register & submit the title transfer. If you transfer the title to the new owner (should be able to continue on the back of the title you have now with just signatures & notary), they will then pay the taxes when they register it and get a new permeant title issued in their name.
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Offline Scott of the Sahara

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In Washington State you pay the taxes and fees on what the state thinks your bike (or car ) is worth, not on what you paid for it. This is on a private sale. I got stung for taxes on about $3,000.00 more than I bought the bike for. OUCH

Offline Alfetta

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In Arkansas, you don't pay tax on a used vehicle.. Sam got his sales tax when it was first purchased..

What a concept !!   you go Razor Backs !!
NO, It's not pronounced "moder goosy"

Offline inditx

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Way to go Arkansas indeed!
If you live in Kansas you must register and pay the sales and personal property tax. If the title and bill of sale are in your name you must go through the process as far as I know.
Then again I report what I paid for it so I try to trade and only pay on the difference Iím paying, if any.
inditx

Offline nwguy

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In WA state you can write "Gift" in the spot where you're supposed to write the price and pay very little to license a used vehicle. I've done this quite a few times. No eyebrows raised at the DMV when I did. My friends do this too.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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In Arkansas, you don't pay tax on a used vehicle.. Sam got his sales tax when it was first purchased..

What a concept !!   you go Razor Backs !!

If I lived there I would never buy new!

Oh wait, what do you all pay yearly to have the vehicle?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 09:20:22 AM by twowheeladdict »
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Offline ampm7

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Maybe some of you guys can answer this. I am thinking of buying a new bike here in California and will be moving to another state (don't know which one yet) and I have been looking at other states and they have "vehicle assessment tax" or "property tax" on the bike. So, essentially I am paying the tax/registration here in California ($2,000 on a $20,000 bike). As far as property taxes go, they are paid every year here in California for homes but the "use tax" for the bike is a one time payment. What about other states? Do you have to have your bike reassessed every year in order to get new plates? I am looking at Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, and North & South Carolina. Any of you guys from those states that can shed some light on this? Thanks
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Maybe some of you guys can answer this. I am thinking of buying a new bike here in California and will be moving to another state (don't know which one yet) and I have been looking at other states and they have "vehicle assessment tax" or "property tax" on the bike. So, essentially I am paying the tax/registration here in California ($2,000 on a $20,000 bike). As far as property taxes go, they are paid every year here in California for homes but the "use tax" for the bike is a one time payment. What about other states? Do you have to have your bike reassessed every year in order to get new plates? I am looking at Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, and North & South Carolina. Any of you guys from those states that can shed some light on this? Thanks

In NC you will pay yearly property tax on all registered vehicles. You dont have to have the vehicle assessed, they have a value table based on just make/model/year... you pay what they think the value is.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
1970 Ambo (shiny resto-mod)
1984 V65 Cafe Racer (ongoing cafe project)
2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

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In NC you will pay yearly property tax on all registered vehicles. You dont have to have the vehicle assessed, they have a value table based on just make/model/year... you pay what they think the value is.
holy cow, that sounds like something California would have.
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Offline egschade

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I have the title and signed the back, oddly enough i went to my state dmv site on FB and the guy must be a biker as i sent a pvt msg, no names of course and he wrote back twice, I have to pay the tax, but dont have to register it, if we do the swap and no money chnages hands, the dmv clerk looks up the bluebook value and we pay taxes on that amt...

Ill see what happens..

Thanks for the reply

In NJ if you sign the title then you need to complete the ownership transfer before selling it on. I learned to only have the seller's info on the title until the bike is ready to ride and/or I'm certain I want to register it. Other option is to have the PO attest to it being a parts bike and provide a minimal purchase value. NJMVC won't argue much if it 1) older and 2) you're not registering it.
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Offline Kev m

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holy cow, that sounds like something California would have.

It's my understanding that in states where they assess personal property tax on vehicles yearly they also asses much MUCH lower real estate taxes than states that don't asses personal property taxes.

A quick look at Zillow gave me a real estate tax of $2-3k on a 2600 SQ ft property in Asheville. I saw similar numbers on a few Charlotte NC listings.

Comparatively I've seen figures on similar valued/sized homes in PA more around $8k/year and NJ more around $10-12k/year.
PA and NJ both being states in which I've lived that don't asses personal property taxes annually on vehicles.
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Offline Alfetta

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In WA state you can write "Gift" in the spot where you're supposed to write the price and pay very little to license a used vehicle. I've done this quite a few times. No eyebrows raised at the DMV when I did. My friends do this too.

Bad move in my state "gift tax" is like 48%  (stupid crazy high), oh and that also applied to a bonus !!
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Offline Dave Swanson

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Illinois is pretty good comparatively for sales tax at the time of registering a used motorcycle if it is a private sale.  Even if you bought a million dollar Brough Superior, as long as it was a private sale, the sales tax would be $25. 
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Offline Two Checks

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In MO the last time I tried to gift a vehicle I was told they stopped doing that as people were using it to avoid taxes so you pay sales tax on the book value. Therefore you claim you paid a different amount. If its crazy low you must show why you paid much less than market value.
I'm not sure on a vehicle from out of state but I do remember there were some things different from a vehicle purchased from within the state.
Property taxes are paid to the county once per year. The license bureau (dept of revenue) has nothing to do with it except they are tasked with ensuring you paid the tax. How? You must bring your property tax (not real estate) receipt. Of course, if you didn't own the vehicle on Jan 1 of the present year there is no tax on it but they make sure you paid tax on your orher vehicles.
If you didn't live in the county on Jan 1 you must get the paper from the county assessor showing you owe no taxes. No proof of taxed paid or not owed, no title, no registration.


The license bureau is one of the places where the customer is always wrong, even if you follow their instructions to the letter.
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Offline ampm7

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Mayor of BBQ, on your Ambo and your Breva what percentage is the property tax and do they go by the Nadaguides to formulate the value?
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Maybe some of you guys can answer this. I am thinking of buying a new bike here in California and will be moving to another state (don't know which one yet) and I have been looking at other states and they have "vehicle assessment tax" or "property tax" on the bike. So, essentially I am paying the tax/registration here in California ($2,000 on a $20,000 bike). As far as property taxes go, they are paid every year here in California for homes but the "use tax" for the bike is a one time payment. What about other states? Do you have to have your bike reassessed every year in order to get new plates? I am looking at Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, and North & South Carolina. Any of you guys from those states that can shed some light on this? Thanks

No personal property tax in TN.  Some counties like mine have a flat wheel tax to ruin all the dirt roads by turning them into pavement.  Many counties only charge the $27 per vehicle the state requires to plate it every year.  If I were you, I would consider buying the bike in the state you are moving to.  In parts of Alabama sales tax is 2.5%  in Tennessee it is 7% plus $85.  You can work out price over the phone if buying new to see what kind of deal you can make. 
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Mayor of BBQ, on your Ambo and your Breva what percentage is the property tax and do they go by the Nadaguides to formulate the value?

I just registered the Ambo and the state's declared value was $1! LOL  I will look up how much the property tax is...

As for the B1100, it is due for inspection and registration, I will check the slip when I get home and report back.

In the meantime, I just renewed my 2012 Subaru impreza and the total was about $85 which was around $20 for the tag, $25 for a county levy they slap on vehicle registration that goes to schools (what does my car have to do with funding public schools?!?), and a couple bucks goes to local EMS. So I am guessing the yearly 'property tax' (State & county) on a 10 year old car is about $35ish dollars.


As Kev stated above, I live in the county and my property tax on a $315k value house is about $1300 a year! If I lived in city limits it would be twice that, about $2,800 yearly.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
1970 Ambo (shiny resto-mod)
1984 V65 Cafe Racer (ongoing cafe project)
2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

Offline twowheeladdict

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It's my understanding that in states where they assess personal property tax on vehicles yearly they also asses much MUCH lower real estate taxes than states that don't asses personal property taxes.

A quick look at Zillow gave me a real estate tax of $2-3k on a 2600 SQ ft property in Asheville. I saw similar numbers on a few Charlotte NC listings.

Comparatively I've seen figures on similar valued/sized homes in PA more around $8k/year and NJ more around $10-12k/year.
PA and NJ both being states in which I've lived that don't asses personal property taxes annually on vehicles.

Y'all's income must be incrementally higher to compensate for the level of taxation.  Here in Tennessee there is no income tax.  Tax on a market value $200,000 property is about $700.  Vehicle registration ranges from $27 to the state with some counties having an additional wheel tax to maintain roads.  My county charges $97 per vehicle regardless of value.  Sales taxes range from 7.5% to 10% with very few exemptions.  With electric never over $200 a month, Water $40 a month, Food around $500 a month, add in fuel, parts and maintenance and a person can live pretty well in retirement in Tennessee. 

If I stopped buying big ticket items I could easily live on half my income and keep what I own running for a long time. 
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Offline dirtiegirtie

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It's my understanding that in states where they assess personal property tax on vehicles yearly they also asses much MUCH lower real estate taxes than states that don't asses personal property taxes.

A quick look at Zillow gave me a real estate tax of $2-3k on a 2600 SQ ft property in Asheville. I saw similar numbers on a few Charlotte NC listings.

Comparatively I've seen figures on similar valued/sized homes in PA more around $8k/year and NJ more around $10-12k/year.
PA and NJ both being states in which I've lived that don't asses personal property taxes annually on vehicles.

Kev - You're point is not lost on me: The government is going to get their share no matter how they split it up.

In NJ my property taxes were more than twice what I pay up here in Massachusetts. Yet when I moved up here people referred to it as "Tax-achusetts". Well, they just tax more items at a lower rate... same total $, just spread across more individual 'taxes'.
Your state has low/no sales tax? Your real-estate taxes will be higher than the states that have 7-10% sales tax.
Your state charges some type of annual use/excise tax on vehicles? Your real-estate taxes will be lower than the the states that don't.

They'll get your $, one way or another.

Offline Kev m

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Kev - You're point is not lost on me: The government is going to get their share no matter how they split it up.

In NJ my property taxes were more than twice what I pay up here in Massachusetts. Yet when I moved up here people referred to it as "Tax-achusetts". Well, they just tax more items at a lower rate... same total $, just spread across more individual 'taxes'.
Your state has low/no sales tax? Your real-estate taxes will be higher than the states that have 7-10% sales tax.
Your state charges some type of annual use/excise tax on vehicles? Your real-estate taxes will be lower than the the states that don't.

They'll get your $, one way or another.

More or less agreed, but I'm pretty sure there are states that overall tax a LOT less (TN from TwoWheel's example, and NC doesn't seem to be making up the difference in NJ real estate taxes elsewhere).

Here in NJ we've got:

* HUGE Real Estate taxes
* A progressive income tax - we pay around 6.5%
* A sales tax of 6.625% (excluding only non-preparred food, household paper products, medicine, and clothing, yes this tax includes vehicles upon initial registration minus trade value if through dealer)
* A tax of 50.7 cents a gallon on fuel (4th highest in the country)

There's more, but those are the highlights.

In trade we have excellent road repairs. Granted there are plenty of bad roads, but when they come in to repair one they don't screw around, then grind, pave, and paint miles and miles a day at any one location.

We have to get our cars inspected after they are 5 years old, and then only every 2 years, and only for emissions. Inspections are free and pretty quick at state drive through centers.

We have done away with motorcycle inspections. The law states essentially that riders have the most to lose by not maintaining their rides and therefore they are on their own.  :thumb:

But we pay for these things.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 08:54:26 AM by Kev m »
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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More or less agreed, but I'm pretty sure there are states that overall tax a LOT less (TN from TwoWheel's example, and NC doesn't seem to be making up the difference in NJ real estate taxes elsewhere).

Here in NJ we've got:

* HUGE Real Estate taxes
* A progressive income tax - we pay around 6.5%
* A sales tax of 6.625% (excluding only non-preparred food, household paper products, medicine, and clothing, yes this tax includes vehicles upon initial registration minus trade value if through dealer)
* A tax of 50.7 cents a gallon on fuel (4th highest in the country)

There's more, but those are the highlights.

In trade we have excellent road repairs. Granted there are plenty of bad roads, but when they come in to repair one they don't screw around, then grind, pave, and paint miles and miles a day at any one location.

We have to get our cars inspected after they are 5 years old, and then only every 2 years, and only for emissions. Inspections are free and pretty quick at state drive through centers.

We have done away with motorcycle inspections. The law states essentially that riders have the most to lose by not maintaining their rides and therefore they are on their own.  :thumb:

But we pay for these things.

veering dangeriously into the political realm here... BUT

at least in NC, we saw a big push to 'cut taxes' in about 2010... 
We went from 3 personal income tax rates down to one..  Low income taxes went up, top-earners taxes went down, middle class people stayed the same. The business tax rates were also reduced.
 
Of course we then faced immediate budget crunch, so they expanded sales tax (mostly by adding sales tax to 'services' <like haircuts, car/home repair labor, childcare/daycare, etc> where it was formerly only assigned to 'goods').

That wasn't enough to close the gap, so they increased 'fees' like vehicle registration, state park admissions, and professional licenses. They also eliminated 'grace periods' on stuff like vehicle inspections and registrations, biz licenses.. used to be if you got it done within 30 days of expiry there was no penalty, but no more.

Anyhoo, some people got to crow about 'lowering taxes' or 'fiscal responsibility' but really it's a case of 'rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic', 'robbing peter to pay paul', 'shell game' etc.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
1970 Ambo (shiny resto-mod)
1984 V65 Cafe Racer (ongoing cafe project)
2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

Offline ampm7

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Well, the advantage if I bike here is that I am buying from a very reputable dealer just 5 miles away. So if I have any warranty issues I can have them resolved very quickly. Plus, I can break in the bike on roads that I know well. When I move and I have to pay a "use/sales tax" then, I will have to grin and bear it. One thing I have noticed is a lot of states have an historic vehicle classification which lowers the amount paid for registration etc. California does not have that at least to my knowledge. It is still $140 a year for the Ambo.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Well, the advantage if I bike here is that I am buying from a very reputable dealer just 5 miles away. So if I have any warranty issues I can have them resolved very quickly. Plus, I can break in the bike on roads that I know well. When I move and I have to pay a "use/sales tax" then, I will have to grin and bear it. One thing I have noticed is a lot of states have an historic vehicle classification which lowers the amount paid for registration etc. California does not have that at least to my knowledge. It is still $140 a year for the Ambo.

Tennessee has a vintage tag https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/revenue/documents/forms/titlereg/f1312901Fill-in.pdf

Now wishing I would have kept my '93 Honda XR250L.  I didn't ride it enough to register it every year so eventually sold it.  I had bought it for the boys to learn on, and then kept it around in case a friend was visiting that didn't own a dual sport.  I would transfer a plate over to it for $4 during the visit and transfer back at some point in the future or pick a bike that was close to renewal and transfer the plate until time of renewal and put it back on the other bike. 

I really wish I could just get one plate to move between bikes.  I can only ride one at a time and only wear on the roads as if I had one bike. 
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Kev - You're point is not lost on me: The government is going to get their share no matter how they split it up.

In NJ my property taxes were more than twice what I pay up here in Massachusetts. Yet when I moved up here people referred to it as "Tax-achusetts". Well, they just tax more items at a lower rate... same total $, just spread across more individual 'taxes'.
Your state has low/no sales tax? Your real-estate taxes will be higher than the states that have 7-10% sales tax.
Your state charges some type of annual use/excise tax on vehicles? Your real-estate taxes will be lower than the the states that don't.

They'll get your $, one way or another.

Definitely some states overall tax burden is higher than other states.

Personally I prefer sales tax over property taxes.  When I retire I can choose to not consume as much, but will still have to pay my property tax.  They keep raising the value of property until many retired folks can no longer afford to remain in their homes. 
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Offline Kev m

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Definitely some states overall tax burden is higher than other states.

Personally I prefer sales tax over property taxes.  When I retire I can choose to not consume as much, but will still have to pay my property tax.  They keep raising the value of property until many retired folks can no longer afford to remain in their homes.

I've always felt that a personal property tax state would be tough on me because it would incentivize me to keep older vehicles (something I'm loath to do usually).

BUT, hearing the numbers, I wonder if that would actually be true in the long run.

I mean I could never be my little bro Jay with 17 or so registered bikes and another dozen in the garage, but then again I COULD NEVER DO THAT ANYWAY, it would drive me nuts.
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