Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Guzzidad on June 21, 2019, 08:32:40 PM

Title: Starter?
Post by: Guzzidad on June 21, 2019, 08:32:40 PM
   I recently got my 96 Sport back on the road and I've done about 400 trouble free miles on it. But the other day I went to start it and all it did was click, and then it sucked all the voltage out of the battery. I thought it was  a bad battery and I sent it back to the vendor, they sent me a new one. I tried to start it today, it clicked, and promptly sucked all the voltage out of the battery. Is that a symptom of a bad Valeo starter? I have the battery on a charger now. No blown fuses. Is that what happens when the magnets fall off?
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: guzzisteve on June 21, 2019, 09:07:15 PM
The magnets cause it to bind.  Put the EV starter in and compare, you'll know then.
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: Tom on June 21, 2019, 09:14:13 PM
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: wirespokes on June 22, 2019, 05:44:20 PM
Hope the relay didn't get fried.

It does sound like the dreaded dropped magnet syndrome. 

If it is the starter and you get a new one, don't toss it, I'll buy it for parts.
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: Guzzidad on June 22, 2019, 06:38:41 PM
   My first check, I removed the battery and tried to jump it from my riding lawn mower. Nothing but click click click. So obviously the relay is ok. All right then, I removed and disassembled the original starter and sure enough, one of the magnets came loose. And a couple of pieces broke off but it's mostly there so I will save it and try to fix it in the future. But in the mean time I ordered an aftermarket starter that Antmanbee steered me to for $67. But one thing I want to understand, why did it absolutely KILL a brand new battery in just a second or two?
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: wirespokes on June 22, 2019, 09:15:26 PM
The starter motor draws a lot of current (amps). If not for the starter, batteries could be tiny little things. We're talking a good 150 amps or better turning the engine over, and it draws more initially getting 'the ball rolling'. If I recall correctly, the starter motor can draw very much more current in the 'locked rotor' mode. It's like shorting the battery terminals for a couple seconds.

Some people hold the button down for quite a while until the engine starts - car or bike. When the starter gets warm (very quickly) it draws more and more current, so it's best doing several short bursts than one long one. It's much easier on the battery and the starter.

I've dealt with Valeos when they dropped magnets and never had the battery drained. I'm guessing the starter button was still pushed long after the initial click and nothing happening. Just guessing, but I don't think I ever engage the starter longer than half a second.

Good for you rebuilding it. Those things are like a Chinese puzzle - kind of fun, actually. But when it comes to the back area - the black plastic brush holder, be really careful. The springs are very strong and the plastic is brittle - breaks easily. Don't pry on it, or let the spring slip and crash back down or you'll be buying a new one. Thankfully all the parts are available. If you don't glue the magnet back in, new upgraded housings with magnets are available.
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on June 22, 2019, 09:35:15 PM
The best way to test a starter is jumper the solenoid directly to the battery, that tests the starter and battery eliminating the possibility of it being Startus Interruptus caused by weak wiring
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: Guzzidad on June 25, 2019, 07:35:52 PM
   Went to visit a friend of mine today. He's a BMW guy mostly, but he likes all bikes. He says he would buy a Griso if he found one at the right price. Anyway, I told him of my starter issue and he said he had to replace a starter on one of his beemers. He thought it was a Bosch, but he had the old one in a box on his tool cart. Turns out it was a Valeo. I can't fault the Valeo, it lasted 23 years. And it's hot here in Florida. The heat and the sun are hard on our vehicles.
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: wirespokes on June 25, 2019, 10:26:17 PM
I like the Valeos. Yes, the BMW and Guzzi Valeos are similar, but the mountings are different.

A lot of the older ones before the update only failed due to dropped magnets.
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: Tom on June 27, 2019, 03:19:24 PM
IIRC doesn't some of the Valeo starters rotate differently or do they all go the same direction?  The Beemers had more problems with magnets unbonding because the location of the starter, under a cover and on top of the engine. IIRC.  Valeo changed the type epoxy glue and the problems ceased.  I think Dean Rose tried re-gluing a magnet back on w/JB Weld and had problems because of the metal particles interfering with the electricity.  "No negative waves."
Title: Re: Starter?
Post by: wirespokes on June 27, 2019, 07:05:53 PM
The airhead Valeos have to rotate the opposite direction of the Guzzis, despite both the BMW and Guzzi engines rotating clockwise. That's because the airhead starter is mounted to the front of the flywheel while the Guzzi is mounted to the rear. The oilhead beemers got the starter in the same location, so they rotate the same direction.

Another change to help prevent dropped magnets is a metal clip between each set of magnets designed to absorb some of the sideways forces trying to shear the magnets loose.