Author Topic: 1971 Ambassador revival  (Read 15532 times)

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #90 on: November 02, 2021, 12:52:05 PM »
OK both carbs now back on bike! Fingers crossed. Waiting for air box boot and battery I ordered. Will work on petcocks today, and research fuel lines. And just ordered generator cover and two lock nuts for throttle/choke - I bought a couple from my hardware store but they are too big and rubber boot won't fit ha!

I want to install bar end signals, and was looking at these, which are actual Hella, include LED bulbs and relay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203652717629?hash=item2f6aa5dc3d:g:JT8AAOSwuMZZKLKN

Anyone with experience, have any input? Charlie I believe you installed replicas on Sophia? Replicas are a lot less expensive, but if they are cheaply made I'd rather go for the long haul quality.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #91 on: November 02, 2021, 01:39:16 PM »
OK both carbs now back on bike! Fingers crossed. Waiting for air box boot and battery I ordered. Will work on petcocks today, and research fuel lines. And just ordered generator cover and two lock nuts for throttle/choke - I bought a couple from my hardware store but they are too big and rubber boot won't fit ha!

I want to install bar end signals, and was looking at these, which are actual Hella, include LED bulbs and relay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203652717629?hash=item2f6aa5dc3d:g:JT8AAOSwuMZZKLKN

Anyone with experience, have any input? Charlie I believe you installed replicas on Sophia? Replicas are a lot less expensive, but if they are cheaply made I'd rather go for the long haul quality.

I've installed both genuine Hella and Emgo repros. Years ago the Emgos weren't nearly as good, but now they are nearly the same quality as the originals, parts will even interchange.

The biggest difference between the two is the Hellas are polished alloy and the Emgos are chrome-plated. it's not just "flash chrome" either - there's copper, nickel and then chrome. This can make them a bit hard to install - the plating is thick so I've found it necessary to remove it from the part that goes into the 'bars. Depending on the 'bars, it may be necessary to ream or drill the inner diameter larger as well.

The Hellas have a locating nub which fits into a notch in the 'bars on BMW /2s, so you'd either need to remove the nub or make a notch for it to fit into. I've found it necessary to open up the i.d. of the 'bars with these as well. Hopefully the LED bulbs supplied with the Hellas are amber to match the lens, if they're not a "normal" incandescent festoon bulb will be brighter. Note that the Hellas are for 6 volts - you'll need different bulbs and flasher.

Emgo replicas: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_156&products_id=3001
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 01:41:46 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #92 on: November 02, 2021, 01:49:08 PM »
OK cool, thanks again, I will try the replicas. Also considering switches, maybe doing a modern upgraded 'all-in'one' switch. And I would like the flashing brake light and maybe modulating front headlight? Not sure, and need to finish fuel projects and get the bike running first I guess.

I've installed both genuine Hella and Emgo repros. Years ago the Emgos weren't nearly as good, but now they are nearly the same quality as the originals, parts will even interchange.

The biggest difference between the two is the Hellas are polished alloy and the Emgos are chrome-plated. it's not just "flash chrome" either - there's copper, nickel and then chrome. This can make them a bit hard to install - the plating is thick so I've found it necessary to remove it from the part that goes into the 'bars. Depending on the 'bars, it may be necessary to ream or drill the inner diameter larger as well.

The Hellas have a locating nub which fits into a notch in the 'bars on BMW /2s, so you'd either need to remove the nub or make a notch for it to fit into. I've found it necessary to open up the i.d. of the 'bars with these as well. Hopefully the LED bulbs supplied with the Hellas are amber to match the lens, if they're not a "normal" incandescent festoon bulb will be brighter. Note that the Hellas are for 6 volts - you'll need different bulbs and flasher.

Emgo replicas: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_156&products_id=3001

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2021, 02:07:00 PM »
OK cool, thanks again, I will try the replicas. Also considering switches, maybe doing a modern upgraded 'all-in'one' switch. And I would like the flashing brake light and maybe modulating front headlight? Not sure, and need to finish fuel projects and get the bike running first I guess.

I prefer something a bit more period looking on my Loops.
https://z1parts.net/switch-handlebar-kawasaki-h2-h1-s1-s2-left-side/
Here's how to wire it up:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_handlebar_switch_-_kawasaki_46091-005_-asahi-denso-.html

Not a fan of either flashing brake lights or modulating headlights. I am a fan of LED brake light bulbs and an LED headlight or bulb.
Charlie

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2021, 02:07:00 PM »

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2021, 10:47:04 PM »
I could go for that one. What do you think of this one?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=3010

The thing about the flashing brake light/modulating headlight is that I NOTICE THEM when I'm driving a car. And I want to be noticed by car drivers when I'm riding the bike! Can you share your reasons for not being a fan?

I prefer something a bit more period looking on my Loops.
https://z1parts.net/switch-handlebar-kawasaki-h2-h1-s1-s2-left-side/
Here's how to wire it up:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_handlebar_switch_-_kawasaki_46091-005_-asahi-denso-.html

Not a fan of either flashing brake lights or modulating headlights. I am a fan of LED brake light bulbs and an LED headlight or bulb.

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #95 on: November 02, 2021, 10:48:48 PM »
Should I replace this air filter? It looks OK to me, but what do I know lol!




Online Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2021, 10:51:17 PM »
Your filter is a K & N reusable. Do a search for how to clean and oil the filter.

Tom
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Offline geoff in almonte

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2021, 07:10:50 AM »
I could go for that one. What do you think of this one?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=3010

The thing about the flashing brake light/modulating headlight is that I NOTICE THEM when I'm driving a car. And I want to be noticed by car drivers when I'm riding the bike! Can you share your reasons for not being a fan?

In some places they are illegal.

G
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #98 on: November 03, 2021, 10:17:19 AM »
I could go for that one. What do you think of this one?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=3010

The thing about the flashing brake light/modulating headlight is that I NOTICE THEM when I'm driving a car. And I want to be noticed by car drivers when I'm riding the bike! Can you share your reasons for not being a fan?

No way of turning the headlight off, so I've never used it. I find flashing or modulating to be distracting, bright and on solid is my preference.

As Tom H wrote, that's a K&N "lifetime" filter, just clean it if necessary and re-oil.
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #99 on: November 03, 2021, 06:26:01 PM »
Thanks guys I don't know where I'd be without y'alls help. And I'm enjoying learning all this stuff. Glad I rebuilt the carbs myself, nothing like the sense of accomplishment you get from doing it yourself. *knocks on head* Of course better wait and see if they work haha.

So I think these petcock adaptors I have (from PO) are in fact just plumbing compression couplers or something. They only thread into the tank 4-5 turns before they start to get tight. Both pieces do it on both sides of the tank. My first instinct was to get out a wrench and force them on, but maybe not a good idea? I suspect they are not metric threads... Also they are not threaded internally. I did come up with a trick way to get the screens that came with petcocks from MGcycle to work with them, but now I'm thinking I will just punt and buy the proper adaptors from MGCycle, and screens from John Chicoine.

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2021, 06:28:12 PM »
Instead of the flashing lights to get noticed I can always just get really loud pipes, with the added benefit of letting everyone know I have concerns about the size of my pipi  :cheesy:

Online John A

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #101 on: November 04, 2021, 04:51:46 AM »
The problem with the flashing lites is target fixation by an impaired driver. They will home into a flashing lite automatically when they are in a trance. Years ago they were wondering why the cop cars being fully lit up kept getting run into by our fellow travelers and that’s what they found. Experiments were conducted to determine flash rates and stuff like intensity and location that were changed to help alleviate the problem but I have not read that study. It’s not much of a problem with enforcement and investigation vehicles  anymore but does still happen.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 06:45:31 AM by John A »
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #102 on: November 04, 2021, 10:59:32 PM »
But flashing brake lights and modulating headlight seem quite different  than flashing emergency lights. Certainly the brake lights are a short burst, meant to briefly catch attention, but not long enough to fixate on I wouldn't think?? I suppose the headlight is more debatable, but my own experience as a car driver is I become much more aware of the motorcycle that has the modulating headlight. But then again, I'm not sauced while driving ;-)

The problem with the flashing lites is target fixation by an impaired driver. They will home into a flashing lite automatically when they are in a trance. Years ago they were wondering why the cop cars being fully lit up kept getting run into by our fellow travelers and that’s what they found. Experiments were conducted to determine flash rates and stuff like intensity and location that were changed to help alleviate the problem but I have not read that study. It’s not much of a problem with enforcement and investigation vehicles  anymore but does still happen.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 11:13:55 PM by demet »

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #103 on: November 04, 2021, 11:03:24 PM »
Airbox boot installed, well, it's in place, the 'dry run' as recommended by Charlie. Seems like a nice secure fit. Waiting for the oil for the filter, and the liquid gasket stuff.




Any tips on installing the generator cover? Seems like I may need to take the front fender off in order to slot it into place?? I already removed the horn, but still not enough clearance to comfortably fit it in...

« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 11:04:13 PM by demet »

Online Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #104 on: November 04, 2021, 11:11:39 PM »
Maybe Charlie has a better answer for the cover, but... I would try pulling the front cover/belt cover and see if you can slip it in from the front.

Lights: I would not want a flashing headlight. But, I have seen a tail light that would flash something like 3 times and then go solid. I did notice that quite well. Then again, if I need to make sure my brake gets noticed and I have the time, I'll hit the brake on and off a few times before actually braking, especially on a freeway in a quick slow down situation.

Tom
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2021, 08:42:26 AM »
Any tips on installing the generator cover? Seems like I may need to take the front fender off in order to slot it into place?? I already removed the horn, but still not enough clearance to comfortably fit it in...



The generator cover doesn't go on from the front, it goes on from the side (after the cable splitter is removed) or from the rear (while the carbs and breather box are off). The closed part goes towards the rear.

A tip I learned from Mark Etheridge at Moto Guzzi Classics: Put a 1" wide piece of masking tape down over the closed section and make a cut on either side of it. This makes two halves that are easier to install and also reduces the chance of it cracking around the mounting holes. I use fender washers on the mounting bolts.



« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 08:48:23 AM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #106 on: November 05, 2021, 01:01:32 PM »
The generator cover doesn't go on from the front, it goes on from the side (after the cable splitter is removed) or from the rear (while the carbs and breather box are off). The closed part goes towards the rear.

A tip I learned from Mark Etheridge at Moto Guzzi Classics: Put a 1" wide piece of masking tape down over the closed section and make a cut on either side of it. This makes two halves that are easier to install and also reduces the chance of it cracking around the mounting holes. I use fender washers on the mounting bolts.

Ah interesting, will do this today! So I guess they have a tendency to crack at mounting holes and fender washers help distribute the stress. Very cool. Cheers!

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #107 on: November 05, 2021, 01:22:43 PM »
Lights: I would not want a flashing headlight. But, I have seen a tail light that would flash something like 3 times and then go solid. I did notice that quite well. Then again, if I need to make sure my brake gets noticed and I have the time, I'll hit the brake on and off a few times before actually braking, especially on a freeway in a quick slow down situation.

Tom

Thanks Tom, yes I sometimes flash my brakes, but only when it occurs to me and only if I have time to notice car coming at speed from behind, so overall not very often. I want it automatic, a few flashes then solid. I'll probably pass on the headlight modulator.

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #108 on: November 05, 2021, 03:42:43 PM »
Ah interesting, will do this today! So I guess they have a tendency to crack at mounting holes and fender washers help distribute the stress. Very cool. Cheers!

Please do not destroy the generator cover with a bodge like chopping it in half.

The cover might crack if the bolts are cranked up compressing the plastic which is not of uniform thickness is all.

All I did was make sure the mounts for it on the generator bracket were inline then bored the four holes in the plastic cover to 10mm ID, machined collar inserts that fit each hole depth wise and then the washers (brass in my case) seated on the collars, holding the cover but not unduly compressing it.
The cover is now captivated but not restrained with the bolts tight and forgotten about until the generator brushes are checked in 2050.





If you have the small round CEV tail light only, good luck being seen, day or night.



Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #109 on: November 05, 2021, 06:20:10 PM »
Sorry to suggest such a terrible "bodge"  :rolleyes:. It's not only the clamping force of the bolts that cracks the cover when it's one piece, the covers (new or old) are usually molded a bit "tweaked". I've tried shoulder washers like you show and rubber grommets with spacers and washers. One piece covers still cracked. They don't crack with Mark's/my "bodge". 

An LED bulb does a great job of improving rear lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GPX2Q8
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #110 on: November 05, 2021, 10:34:26 PM »
I bodged it. :wink: As you mentioned, my cover was quite deformed out of the box. Relieving the tension makes sense, and there's really no downside I can see, aside from feeling a bit weird cutting a brand new part in half lol.

Are these bulbs just straight replacements for the existing bulbs, or do I need a relay or something?

 
Sorry to suggest such a terrible "bodge"  :rolleyes:. It's not only the clamping force of the bolts that cracks the cover when it's one piece, the covers (new or old) are usually molded a bit "tweaked". I've tried shoulder washers like you show and rubber grommets with spacers and washers. One piece covers still cracked. They don't crack with Mark's/my "bodge". 

An LED bulb does a great job of improving rear lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GPX2Q8

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #111 on: November 06, 2021, 09:27:23 AM »
I bodged it. :wink: As you mentioned, my cover was quite deformed out of the box. Relieving the tension makes sense, and there's really no downside I can see, aside from feeling a bit weird cutting a brand new part in half lol.

Are these bulbs just straight replacements for the existing bulbs, or do I need a relay or something?

Straight replacement, no electronic trickery necessary.
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #112 on: November 06, 2021, 06:36:22 PM »
Ugh I'm so bad with electrical. Trying to install the battery, installed positive wire first, then negative and as I was tightening it I heard a short, then sizzle and tons of smoke, I had to duck out of my little cubby as it was both scary and noxious. I think what happened is as I was tightening negative I pulled positive terminal in contact with that black box, which I think is 'regulator unit' - so that made a circuit with the ground cable, the whole bike was electrified lol, and then ground cable got really hot, melted it's casing (hence the smoke) and eventually failed, cutting off the circuit. Sound about right?






Here's the head of the bolt I had in the positive terminal, which was fused to the black box/regulator unit:




So did I fry any electronics? I'm really lost with electrical, it just won't stick in my mind. I do have a voltage meter though, and can sort of use it. I have the leads off the battery now. Any advice on how to proceed?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 06:37:17 PM by demet »

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #113 on: November 06, 2021, 06:44:21 PM »
There are no "electronics" to fry.  :laugh: I doubt you did any damage other than the melted ground cable. With that Odyssey, I'd probably use their "L" brackets to move the terminals to the top and/or switch to cables with M6 lug terminals, instead of automotive post type connections. 
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #114 on: November 06, 2021, 09:22:21 PM »
There are no "electronics" to fry.  :laugh: I doubt you did any damage other than the melted ground cable. With that Odyssey, I'd probably use their "L" brackets to move the terminals to the top and/or switch to cables with M6 lug terminals, instead of automotive post type connections.

OK thanks, that's a relief, was afraid I had fried something Yeah I think I'm going to change cable ends to the lug terminals. Then I think I can place battery upright without terminals touching anything. I guess now I realize why people go to some lengths to secure the battery. The PO just had some bailing wire holding it I think.

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #115 on: November 06, 2021, 09:28:09 PM »
An LED bulb does a great job of improving rear lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GPX2Q8

Do these need a resistor Charlie or do they work off a stock setup plug & play?
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #116 on: November 06, 2021, 09:29:41 PM »
...switch to cables with M6 lug terminals, instead of automotive post type connections.

Can I just buy these, cut my existing wires and crimp these on? Or should I buy all new cables?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_158&products_id=670

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #117 on: November 06, 2021, 10:20:32 PM »
Do these need a resistor Charlie or do they work off a stock setup plug & play?

Plug & play, no resistor for the taillight.

If you use these amber LEDs in the turn signals...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BXT4WRN
...you'd need to switch to an electronic flasher such as this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MJGC28B

Can I just buy these, cut my existing wires and crimp these on? Or should I buy all new cables?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_158&products_id=670

Yes, you can crimp or solder those on if the cables are still viable (not melted or have green corrosion).
Charlie

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #118 on: November 07, 2021, 12:27:14 AM »
Replace the battery cable. I like to use one long enough to go to either terminal, that way you have more battery options later on.
John
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #119 on: November 07, 2021, 03:44:01 PM »
OK I'm ordering LED tail lights and turn signal bulbs, and the flasher. Will need to research where the flasher goes. I'm going to try installing the bar end turn signals today, at least get them test fitted. Vintage repo switch you recommended is on order.

Unrelated question: should I put hose clamps on the airfilter boot to velocity stack connection?

Thanks!

Plug & play, no resistor for the taillight.

If you use these amber LEDs in the turn signals...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BXT4WRN
...you'd need to switch to an electronic flasher such as this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MJGC28B

Yes, you can crimp or solder those on if the cables are still viable (not melted or have green corrosion).

 

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