Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: meccanicab on December 02, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
-
Hi Guys,
Over the past 5 years, I've had a re map, heads skimmed by 25 thou', free flow air filter combined with taking the cover off the air box to increase the performance on my Griso 1100.
The result so far has increased the back wheel out put from 83 BHP to 95. Measured on the same rolling road for consistency.
The torque has been increased as well ( don't have the figures to hand).
I'm considering gas flowing the heads along with increasing the capacity ( the aim is to achieve atleast 100BHP at the back wheel)
There is plenty of info/ companies who can gas flow the heads in the UK, but finding consistent info on whether the capacity can be increased and by how much is not available over here.
Has anyone carried out an increase in bore?
If so which pistons?
My other thought was to remove the airbox completely and fit 'pod' style air filters on the inlets to the injectors. My concern there is the affect on the bottom/ mid range performance of the engine.
Any info would be useful.
Thanks.
James.
-
:popcorn:
-
Find a more realistic dynamometer.
Where did the map come from? Is the Lambda still active? You won't be able to take the bores out much larger without risking not having enough meat around the suds.
If you want more go why not simply buy an 8V?
Pete
-
Find a more realistic dynamometer.
If you want more go why not simply buy an 8V?
Pete
enough said..
-
The 1100 Griso produces almost identical power and torque figures to the 1200 2V Sport/Norge motor so not much to be gained there.
This guy is worth listening to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnHmUidA14A&t=325s
-
Whoops! Yes, you could go from 92 to 94 or whatever but it would be utterly pointless. Without bigger TB's it's all moot anyway. Cams might get you an extra 1 or 2, pods will achieve nothing above accelerated engine wear. Stick the airbox lid back on. Remove the snorkel and use the original air filter.
-
Find a more realistic dynamometer.
Hmmm..how do you know any dyno is accurate? If it's a Dynojet the power readout will be 5-10 % more than a eddy current dyno like a Superflow or Mustang....
-
Hmmm..how do you know any dyno is accurate? If it's a Dynojet the power readout will be 5-10 % more than a eddy current dyno like a Superflow or Mustang....
Essentially you don't, but the OP is doing back to back comparisons so that's fine.
-
the OP is doing back to back comparisons so that's fine.
:thumb:
If you run all your dyno tests on the same machine, you'll be able to know what the gains are.
-
Has anyone carried out an increase in bore? If so which pistons?
My other thought was to remove the airbox completely and fit 'pod' style air filters on the inlets to the injectors. My concern there is the affect on the bottom/ mid range performance of the engine.
As mentioned, 1200 Breva Sport and 1200 Norge pistons and barrels would be the next step in displacement.
Leave the airbox on. You'll have more filter area and you'll avoid losing any bottom end.
-
:thumb:
If you run all your dyno tests on the same machine, you'll be able to know what the gains are.
Yes for sure...but the original comments were that the HP reported by the OP were exaggerated ....I was referring to that...
-
Regardless of the actual numbers, a 12hp gain is impressive.
-
Yes for sure...but the original comments were that the HP reported by the OP were exaggerated ....I was referring to that...
when relating ones own dyno numbers, almost everyone, myself included, rounds up. so when I see the number, I take it as an exaggerated approximation. its all part of the fun :evil: :grin:
-
Find a more realistic dynamometer.
Where did the map come from? Is the Lambda still active? You won't be able to take the bores out much larger without risking not having enough meat around the suds.
If you want more go why not simply buy an 8V?
Pete
Well, you could say that about almost any bike. Someone might be looking to put squish bands and expansion chambers on a 350 Yamaha and the answer might be "Why not just buy a 400?". Or someone might be looking to hot-rod an 883 Sportster and the response might be "Why not buy a 1200?" Or a ZRX-1400?
Sometimes folks like the handling characteristics, "feel" etc of their own bike and would rather boost the performance of that bike with $100s rather than take a $$$1000s hit on selling old/buying new .... ?
Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Lannis
-
The later 1200 pistons from the Breva Sport or Norge will have different deck height due to the longer stroke of 81.2 mm vs the 80 in yours. It wont be a drop in plug and play. You should be able to machine the cylinders and or pistons to get a good squish band and proper deck height. If you have custom pistons made, some manufacturers like CP can match the weight of the old ones to keep the balance correct.
-
Hi Guys,
Over the past 5 years, I've had a re map, heads skimmed by 25 thou', free flow air filter combined with taking the cover off the air box to increase the performance on my Griso 1100.
The result so far has increased the back wheel out put from 83 BHP to 95. Measured on the same rolling road for consistency.
The torque has been increased as well ( don't have the figures to hand).
I'm considering gas flowing the heads along with increasing the capacity ( the aim is to achieve atleast 100BHP at the back wheel)
There is plenty of info/ companies who can gas flow the heads in the UK, but finding consistent info on whether the capacity can be increased and by how much is not available over here.
Has anyone carried out an increase in bore?
If so which pistons?
My other thought was to remove the airbox completely and fit 'pod' style air filters on the inlets to the injectors. My concern there is the affect on the bottom/ mid range performance of the engine.
Any info would be useful.
Thanks.
James.
Sorry friend. You may not get a whole lot of encouragement regarding performance gains on this site. Typically what works on most air - air/oil cooled v-twins is typically (not always) discouraged (or worse) on this forum. For some reason many Moto Guzzi owners will go no further than an air cleaner, mufflers and maybe a new ECU tune. Much over that, and, well. don't get your hopes up for others to point you in the direction of the other 'low hanging fruit' performance items that are used with huge success seemingly on most other v-twin platforms. By design, the Guzzi v-twins like to rev which is a good thing for making sustained power. Some other v-twins, no matter what you do to them regarding performance mods and big bore kits, they shut down much over 3200 rpm. I know of no big bore kit for the Moto Guzzi 1100 except going to their own 1200. Others will likely know more about that.
But remember, you've already seen some nice increases. Congratulations to you, I applaud your effort and your success. Look closely at your Hp and Torque curves. Hp should be fairly linear and Torque should start early and remain fairly flat till the Hp and Torque figures cross. Talk to a reputable tuning expert and find out what's available for the 1100. You 'may' find out there isn't much after market performance hardware support for the Guzzi 1100. But if you haven't yet done so, contact Beattle on this forum regarding what map(s) he may have for your 1100. From everything I've seen, he is by far the tuning expert regarding Moto Guzzi twins. Listen carefully to what he says.
Due to nearly no Moto Guzzi factory support regarding true performance upgrades, one of the biggest issues will be the time and the cost of finding out what other pistons are available, boring the oem cylinders, cams grinds, throttle body options etc etc etc. As has been mentioned, pistons from other Guzzi models may be a good starting point regarding possibilities. As designed and for whatever 'performance' items are available from Piaggio, they typically won't yield nearly the gains as an aftermarket option due to an oem having to be EPA certified.
Sure, you could go to the 1200 2V or 4V engine and then others will say why not the 1400. The 1100, 1200 and 1400 'can' all be made to have nice increases in Hp and Torque. They will react somewhat differently to changes though. Regardless, all three of these engine configurations can be made to make good power. Like other brands, it always comes down to money and ROI for what you're going to spend. I'm not sure but you 'may' already be getting close to what's practical regarding gains on the 1100 without spending more on the engine than the whole bike is worth.
Contact the tuners who make claims and verify for yourself if what they're saying and selling is achievable, practical and within your budget. Most importantly, enjoy your Griso, they can be a lot of fun in many ways.
-
:popcorn:
There is an old saying , if you want a lot of horsepower , start out with something that already makes a lot of it . Not only is it cheaper in the short term , it will save even more money over time .
Dusty
-
Jim Barron at Rose Farm Classics in Woodstock, Illinois, had a mechanic some time back who made a veritible rocket out of his own Griso 1100. The bike was sold on later, and I believe the mechanic left long ago. (I don't remember his name.) But Jim is still there and might be someone you should ask. At least he'd be unlikely to scoff at you, I think.
I won't scoff at you either. Heck, I'm dreaming of hopping up my Italjet, not that I have the time, and even though I could "just buy a G400c," for example.
Moto
-
No scoffing , but no matter what you do to a Moto Guzzi , some spotty teenager on a 600 CC motorbike literally sucks the mirrors off of your hotrod Guzzi as he goes by .
Dusty
-
I think we all know and accept that!
-
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.
To give some more info,I have owned the bike from new, purchased 11 years ago before the 4v head model was launched.
I have considered changing for the 4v motor, but due to the problems with the cam followers, plus other issues my local dealers have encountered, all the guys I trust in the dealer network advised not to change bikes, rather stick with the 2v head model.
The bike has been dyno'd on the same unit every time, so whilst I appreciate the comments about 'real world' figures, the output from the engine is measured in a consistent manner.
The map was tailor made by a well know tuning company in the UK called BSD. These guys are the go to people not only for street bikes,the national bike magazines ( Bike, Performance Bike etc) use there service to check manufacturers figures, plus several of the private British Superbike teams use there services.
The lamba has been ditched when the custom map was made.
The idea with the pod filters was more to see if this would help power output without losing bottom and mid range power/torque. I appreciate this can be an issue.
The existing air box is in place bar the top which fits over the air filter.
The exhaust is the termi MG official aftermarket unit.
As a side note, the suspension has been up graded front and rear to improve the handling. If any of you guys in the States have been to the UK, and have driven on our roads, this will make more sense to you.
I love the bike to pieces, don't tell the wife, but almost as much as her! :grin: It's a keeper, I'm just having fun seeing how far the engine can be tuned without losing practicality for real world use. So far the improvements have been worth while. Yes any spotty hurbet can go quickly in a straight line on a UJM. The idea is to make the bike more fun on the twisties!
Please do keep the ideas coming, and I will keep you guys updated as we go down this slippery road!
James
-
James,
I think you might get a better return with headwork and a hotter cam , but it`s easy enough to have custom pistons made these days and a set of cylinders bored and nickisiled to match. I think 95mm would be tops for a street engine ( same as the 1200 Sport )
These 97`s were custom made for a Griso 1100 race motor , but made to weigh close enough to drop in without rebalancing. They can be made aprox. another 100 grams lighter if desired by CP piston in California. Not cheap, but probably cheaper than the cost difference between a 1100 and the 1200 8V . Would likely give you more torque everywhere and a little more hp.
(https://i.ibb.co/BwgHRR1/DSC01094.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BwgHRR1)
when should you drop collision insurance (https://carinsuranceguru.org/when-to-drop-collision-insurance)
-
James,
As a 2 valve Griso owner I also applaud your efforts.
I used to own a VII sport that had been hotted up by a previous owner, it was a blast. I fitted pod filters on that and I noticed a significant flat spot in mid range so I figured it would benefit from intake stacks which I tried by simply using the original intake rubbers (throttle body to air box), before the filter, sure enough it made a significant improvement.
I'm sure you have already tuned the intake but I didn't see it.
Keep us posted.
-
There's a lot of satisfaction to be gained by slowly modifying a bike over time. Your approach is reasonable and pretty restrained. It sounds like fun and I wish you success.
-
I have been watching on Youtube various tests of Sprint competition air filters and there does seem some evidence that they do add a few bhp at the top end on some bikes.
I did have one in a 1200 2V Breva a few years ago but had already dynoed the bike so never measured the benefits. From what I have seen I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand on a tuning project.
If possible it would be good to see the BSD dyno charts on the OP's project.
-
I suspect that this not really a strive for ultimate power as logic would dictate another path
Rather a learning experience that shows what works and what doesn't and the satisfaction of achieving something yourself
So I say fill your boots James, and if you fancy pod filters or even one those miracle "magnetic fuel atom aligners" - I'm sure you will have fun on the journey!
-
Nope.
For some reason or another, many Guzzi owners tend to lose their minds to various extents in either over or under thinking what the Moto Guzzi big block is capable of. I have been subject to this at various times until reason thankfully prevailed and I realized that most Guzzi big blocks made over the last 30 years are tuned to within an inch of long, reliable lives. Name one two valve pushrod car engine in a production car that is redlined at 8000 rpm, and which cranks out 80 to 90 wheel horsepower per liter. Doesn't exist. One of America's foremost Guzzi tuners, Mike Rich, has a long track record of stating to all sorts of people who inquire about making their big blocks faster that once you go down that path, you open a Pandora's box; it was also his advice to me about a year ago, stopping me from spending a couple of grand with him.
Here's my earlier post on the subject:https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98418.msg1554884#msg1554884 (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98418.msg1554884#msg1554884)
My Sport 1100 is a near – perfect running example of the breed, stock but with Mikuni flat slides and Ignitech ignition. Huge, broad, torque curve. Eminently satisfying to ride. A riding buddy's Ducati 1198 was just dynoed at 160 wheel horsepower on the same Dyno that mine hit 77 on; that thing is staggeringly much faster than my Guzzi. Though it doesn't look as good, nor is it is fun to ride *for me*. On twisty roads, he would have a very hard time indeed running away from me because a well-ridden 80 hp Guzzi is already faster than what can be used reasonably on the street. A bridge abutment or cliff face cares not one whit whether you hit it going 120 or 160 mph. You spatter just the same either way.
A stock 140+ rear wheel HP 8V Ducati can be had for $6000 and up, and will flat out murder *any* Guzzi ever made/modified in a drag race.
-
What he said. The most 'Biggus Dickus' 2V I've ridden on the road is the motor in Chuck's Scura. That thing is awesome, it has a lot of Magic in it from somewhere but it's not a 100HP motor and would be less fun if it was! Mike Rich was responsible for a lot of its get up and go I believe.
G11 is further hampered by smaller throttle bodies than the V11. Filters won't compensate for lack of choke size. Maybe some porting work and a pair of 50's off an 8V with appropriate injector and map changes would help? More cam lift is difficult due to rod clearance problems. Spinning it harder will require different rods and that clearance issue will have to be taken into consideration. Then to enjoy the benefits of that the valve train will have to be stiffened up, greater spring pressures, ChroMo pushrods etc. which lead to greater parasitic losses and more rapid wear.......
There seems to be this idea that anything is possible if you throw enough money at something or simply want it to be so! Unfortunately this isn't the case. In stock trim the G11 is a very nice engine, the only nicer 2V is the 948 used in the Bellagio, (Which, incidentally I'd think would be a far better engine to chase HP with.) play on its good points rather than trying to turn it into something it isn't.
Pete
-
Nope.
For some reason or another, many Guzzi owners tend to lose their minds to various extents in either over or under thinking what the Moto Guzzi big block is capable of. I have been subject to this at various times until reason thankfully prevailed and I realized that most Guzzi big blocks made over the last 30 years are tuned to within an inch of long, reliable lives. Name one two valve pushrod car engine in a production car that is redlined at 8000 rpm, and which cranks out 80 to 90 wheel horsepower per liter. Doesn't exist.
This is nonsense. A stock Griso 1100 makes 70 hp per liter, not "80 to 90," according to the Motorcycle Consumer News, December 2006, test.* Plenty of room for improvement. Nobody said a word about beating 160 hp Ducatis. Fun is the name of the game.
Good luck to the Griso 1100 hot rodders!
(https://i.ibb.co/gyMQXNx/griso-burnout.png) (https://ibb.co/gyMQXNx)
Moto
* Calculation: 74.19 tested * (1000/1064) = 69.73 hp per liter.
photo credit: Rose Farm Classics [Jonathan was the name of the mechanic.]
-
This is nonsense. A stock Griso 1100 makes 70 hp per liter, not "80 to 90,"
* Calculation: 74.19 tested * (1000/1064) = 69.73 hp per liter.
No. I meant *Crank* HP. Pay attention to those who know much better--the many Guzzi tuners with experience over the last 40 years who hit walls at around 85-95 RWHP for fully tuned race engines with fly-like lifespans.
I did not say *anything* about beating Ducatis. The point is that our '60s-tech engines are quite pathetic in HP races and are nearly fully optimized ex-factory. To really make it obvious: Nothing you do to any Guzzi will make it nearly as fast as a stock, used, $4K Yamaha R6. You'll just make your poor Guzzi suffer and far less reliable.
Guzzi big blocks *are not* innately high-performance engines, but, can be tuned to do quite well somewhat against the original-ancient-design parameters. They have too many insurmountable power bottlenecks to overcome.
Where's the "room for plenty of improvement?" Remember to post your Griso's before/after dyno charts from the same dyno once you're done chasing whatever it is you're chasing. Proof of the pudding and all that. Remember, the Griso engine was fettled as far as reasonable by some seriously great engineers with Aprilia/Piaggio money--and 75 RWHP is what they arrived at all tings considered.
Intelligence requires that you trade your 2V for an 4V Griso if you want a faster Guzzi. It'll cost you a fraction of the $$3-5K+ you'll need to get 85 RWHP from a 2V, and you'll still have loads more torque and power from a far more reliable engine. And, for the price of a decent Guzzi race engine, you can have a Ducati with 60 more HP and 20 more Ft. Lbs. of torque.
-
No. I meant *Crank* HP. Pay attention to those who know much better--the many Guzzi tuners with experience over the last 40 years who hit walls at around 85-95 RWHP for fully tuned race engines with fly-like lifespans.
I did not say *anything* about beating Ducatis. The point is that our '60s-tech engines are quite pathetic in HP races and are nearly fully optimized ex-factory. To really make it obvious: Nothing you do to any Guzzi will make it nearly as fast as a stock, used, $4K Yamaha R6. You'll just make your poor Guzzi suffer and far less reliable.
Guzzi big blocks *are not* innately high-performance engines, but, can be tuned to do quite well somewhat against the original-ancient-design parameters. They have too many insurmountable power bottlenecks to overcome.
Where's the "room for plenty of improvement?" Remember to post your Griso's before/after dyno charts from the same dyno once you're done chasing whatever it is you're chasing. Proof of the pudding and all that. Remember, the Griso engine was fettled as far as reasonable by some seriously great engineers with Aprilia/Piaggio money--and 75 RWHP is what they arrived at all tings considered.
Intelligence requires that you trade your 2V for an 4V Griso if you want a faster Guzzi. It'll cost you a fraction of the $$3-5K+ you'll need to get 85 RWHP from a 2V, and you'll still have loads more torque and power from a far more reliable engine. And, for the price of a decent Guzzi race engine, you can have a Ducati with 60 more HP and 20 more Ft. Lbs. of torque.
Wouldn't it be great if that wasn't completely true..?
However "intelligence" doesn't always go hand in hand with motorcycle ownership.. :wink:
BTW..
Did you ever see the movie "Worlds Fastest Indian"...? :bike-037: :popcorn:
-
No. I meant *Crank* HP.
You said "wheel hp."
I did not say *anything* about beating Ducatis. The point is that our '60s-tech engines are quite pathetic in HP races and are nearly fully optimized ex-factory. To really make it obvious: Nothing you do to any Guzzi will make it nearly as fast as a stock, used, $4K Yamaha R6.
As I said before, we all know this. Why repeat the point?
Guzzi big blocks *are not* innately high-performance engines, but, can be tuned to do quite well somewhat against the original-ancient-design parameters. They have too many insurmountable power bottlenecks to overcome.
I said nothing to contradict this.
Where's the "room for plenty of improvement?"
See attached photo, above.
Remember to post your Griso's before/after dyno charts from the same dyno once you're done chasing whatever it is you're chasing. Proof of the pudding and all that. Remember, the Griso engine was fettled as far as reasonable by some seriously great engineers with Aprilia/Piaggio money--and 75 RWHP is what they arrived at all tings considered.
I'm not hot rodding my own Griso, just saying attaboy for those that do. You've already seen the OP quote his hp improvement so far. Again, the testimony I had from Jim at Rose Farm convinced me.
Intelligence requires that you trade your 2V for an 4V Griso if you want a faster Guzzi. It'll cost you a fraction of the $$3-5K+ you'll need to get 85 RWHP from a 2V, and you'll still have loads more torque and power from a far more reliable engine. And, for the price of a decent Guzzi race engine, you can have a Ducati with 60 more HP and 20 more Ft. Lbs. of torque.
Intelligence requires no such thing, and I don't want a faster Griso 1100.
I, however, understand the appeal of improving one's own bike even if it won't be "a Ducati with 60 more HP." Seems to me the lack of intelligence, or at least of understanding, is elsewhere. Nothing forces anyone to move to a Ducati or similar just because you think that is the only intelligent thing to do.
Moto
-
I, however, understand the appeal of improving one's own bike even if it won't be "a Ducati with 60 more HP." Seems to me the lack of intelligence, or at least of understanding, is elsewhere. Nothing forces anyone to move to a Ducati or similar just because you think that is the only intelligent thing to do.
I show you an apple, you see an orange. Can't help you with that.
-
For some reason a fruit salad sounds good right now :rolleyes:
Dusty
-
This is fun!
:popcorn:
-
For some reason a fruit salad sounds good right now :rolleyes:
Dusty
Someone'll end up wearing the rough end of the pineapple Dusty..
-
These guys have gone the full nine yards on Griso performance.
http://www.supermototecnica.com/2016/07/01/millepercento-big-bore-moto-guzzi-griso-2/
-
The millepercento uses a 1400cc motor with liquid cooled heads that pre-dates the griso. I believe the company that made the original engine/kit was called "Big Bore".
Not much of the original guzzi motor left there. One of those motors made there way into a msg-01 race bike.
-
Look, I don't think anyone, certainly not I, are trying to discourage the OP from messing about with their engine if that is what they want to do. What I at least am doing is suggesting touching base with reality as to what is achievable with realistic goals in terms of performance if reliability is to be maintained. There are also things like the simple physical constraints of the motor. What you can actually change and do before bits start biffing in to each other, how much capacity you can have and still have a functioning breathing system for the case, how high you can rev it before the oil delivery is compromised and many, many other factors but they ALL have to be taken into account. It's not just being little miss muffet sticking your thumb in and pulling out a plumb! That's all, really.
In my own experience of all V11 and post V11 2 Valve bikes, spine, CARC or whatever much bigger PERFORMANCE dividends will be achieved by spending time and money on brakes and suspension. A decent open loop map, not one that just turns off the lambda input and then throws in fuel which is what most aftermarket maps seem to be because they are built by people who believe that factory maps are 'Too Lean' and don't understand how the MM system works, will also pay great dividends in terms of rider enjoyment.
Best of luck finding what you want.
Pete
-
While a Guzzi is not faster than a lot of bikes, often they can be ridden faster. That's how they were first explained to me. When I tweak my own bike, I just want it to be the best of its kind. So if it's a V65, I want it to run better and handle better than other V65's. If it's a V11, I want it better than other V11's and so on. That's a fun way to go about screwing up my bike, it's a learning process for me and if I do mess it up, what it costs to make it right is the price of that lesson so I tend to do my homework.
-
The 1100 Sport is a great bike, but it hardly is maxed out from the factory in top tune. That Crane designed cam is fine for the street, with 256 degrees of duration, it`s only slightly more exciting than the 252 degree duration of the T3 yawn-mower cam, even with the whopping .050 more valve lift. Probably a compromise more for emissions than anything else, but certainly room for improvement. Yet somehow, that 1064 2 valver with Dellortos would run neck and neck with a Daytona 4V at top speed, dyno fiqures be damned.
Seems we are in an era where innovation and hot rodding are discouraged , and dumping our ride for something with more power is the preferred intelligent method over hands on hot rodding. Argue for limitations, and they are yours.
-
Seems we are in an era where innovation and hot rodding are discouraged , and dumping our ride for something with more power is the preferred intelligent method over hands on hot rodding. Argue for limitations, and they are yours.
Not really. I think the OP should do whatever he derives enjoyment from. He obviously loves his Griso and likes messing with it. That’s what motorcycling is all about. However, this conversation is a lot like the thread about the V85 where people who don’t understand basic physics keep arguing that the engine can achieve HP that is impossible. It’s what happens when someone with an uninformed opinion bumps up against unassailable fact. You talk about limitations like they can be overcome by sheer will. Try that with gravity and tell us how it works out.
The farther you go in modding any engine the smaller the gains become and each hp gained becomes 3,4 or 5 times as expensive as the previous hp gained. When you start talking about 500 to 1,000 dollars per hp, it’s time to accept that you’re at the end of the road. The OP is there. That doesn’t mean he can’t continue and to be honest, I kind of hope he does just because I’m curious how much he can wring out of the Griso but common sense says he’s done with any meaningful gain for under 500-1000 per hp.
-
The 1100 Sport is a great bike, but it hardly is maxed out from the factory in top tune. Yet somehow, that 1064 2 valver with Dellortos would run neck and neck with a Daytona 4V at top speed, dyno fiqures be damned.
Seems we are in an era where innovation and hot rodding are discouraged , and dumping our ride for something with more power is the preferred intelligent method over hands on hot rodding. Argue for limitations, and they are yours.
A brief look at what else is available in the market trying to get more out of something like an 1100 sport is an exercise of rolling a turd in glitter and this is what Pete and a few others are trying to point out, if you are expecting another 10hp out of an exhaust swap like you got on your vaguely recent sports bike you will be miserably disappointed . Providing the people undertaking the exercise understand it is rolling a turd in glitter and quickly becomes and exercise in ever reducing gains I don't think anyone has a serious issue, something about managing expectations.
Pretty much the 1100 sport motor is maxed out, well as far as the factory who needed to pass emissions and provide warrantee was prepared to go, sure you get some mid range gains if you dump the archaic delortos and a little out of the exhaust. The 1100 sport had to pass 25 year ago emissions not current ones so there is not a lot of gain in basic tuning compared to what can be had out of a modern stock bike. We then start talking about machine work and re-engineering, which gets expensive fast for little gain assuming you can find a machinist that is prepared to mess with old munt and how much of the motorcycle vs nail bomb trade off you are prepared to accept.
In a straight line the vaguely stock (stock they were an almost unrideable tuning mess so not many are actually stock) 1100 sport will run out of gearing and rpm at about the same time an A kit daytona and only the A kit will run out of grunt and aerodynamics, I seriously doubt the 1100 sport can pull any taller gearing. The C Kit motors as fitted to the Racing and RS will piss all over it, a well set up Ducati 1000DS (two valve aircooled motor) will also have it for breakfast. First gen Aprilia Millie's/Falco's as also on a whole another league. Modern bikes are engineered to an incredible level i.e the R1's frame is of varying thicknesses to allow for flex and stiffness to optimize handling this has been the case for at least the last 10 years maybe you should go take one for a run.
-
I don't think anybody with an enthusiasm for 2V per cylinder sporting Guzzis would be interested in anything being made now, totally different concepts of motorcycling and if you like one you don't like the other - at least that's my experience. The supposed benefits of the modern bikes "engineered to an incredible level" are pointless to me (some might say totally silly) in comparison with having a lower tech, more elegant sport bike that I enjoy owning and riding more.
That aside, I've had both an 1100 Sport and Daytona RS and in that format both engines have their appeal. The 1100 Sport handles a little better, much as my ST2 Ducati handled a little better than my ST4. The top end rush of the more complex engines is great and somewhat addictive, but you give up a little in handling. Building a hot rod with either of those lighter engines is a great idea, although the result probably won't as smooth and tractable as the 4V per cylinder version - the trade off for a lighter bike.
-
I've just come back from a 5C ride on slimy country roads on my 75bhp Griso 1100 and be o honest any more power would have been unnecessary . I envy riders who experience well shod roads in balm temperatures but here in Blighty the Griso is perfect as it is.
-
You can make a 'Grenade'(as Pete calls them) and spend big $ on it to get there. What you can't do is ride it at 8500-9000RPM. A very thin yellow line. They can be reliable too and be fun. You'll spend your money over again if you don't pay attention and get caught up in the moment.
You can also get almost twice the CFM out of the G11 heads, just ask Mr Rich. :boozing:
-
In a straight line the vaguely stock (stock they were an almost unrideable tuning mess so not many are actually stock) 1100 sport will run out of gearing and rpm at about the same time an A kit daytona and only the A kit will run out of grunt and aerodynamics, I seriously doubt the 1100 sport can pull any taller gearing. The C Kit motors as fitted to the Racing and RS will piss all over it, a well set up Ducati 1000DS (two valve aircooled motor) will also have it for breakfast.
Wide agreement here. My favorite saying these days is that a bridge abutment does not care one whit whether you hit it going 100 miles an hour or 160 miles an hour; you spatter just the same.
Original Daytonas and Sport 1100's had nearly identical performance figures, with the sport having a touch quicker quarter-mile times and also weighing 30 pounds less. Motorcyclist and the German magazines got about 135 - 138 mph out of Sports and Daytonas, with Cycle World running high 11's at 115 mph. God knows what they had to do to make it do that, poor clutch. That's still 5 mph short of, say, a 1982 Suzuki GS 1000; or 15 mph short of a 2000 Aprilia Mille...
The Sport 1100 engine certainly was maxed out; some poster above said something about camshaft profiles and duration, but that evidences a lack of understanding of the serious limits imposed by the rockers on valve lift, the stock big valve heads' inability to make use of valve lift above 8-9 millimeters, well short of the 10.5 mm available, and the exponential increase in valvetrain stress and pressures from using higher lift cams with more duration.
It *is* fun to have the feeling of nearly unlimited power. My 2000 ZX – 12R gave you that feeling in spades. But, as with anything limitless, it ends up having limits elsewhere; and that bike was severely limited in its day-to-day usefulness and fun to ride quotient. Call it the Dorian Gray syndrome. It was only exhilarating when you were lined up behind 10 slow cars on a country road and annihilating them all, hitting 150+ miles per hour by the time you pulled in ahead of the lead car. All very dangerous and adding a huge additional element of severe risk to riding motorcycles.
But, the Sport 1100 is multiple orders of magnitude more fun to ride, still more satisfying for me even than a Ducati 1299 Panigale. Maybe that just makes me a geezer. I look forward to even starting the damn thing. It is the closest and most recently made motorcycle equivalency to a late 1960s Porsche 911 racecar on the street.
-
The carb'd Sport 1100 engine is my favorite Guzzi engine, of all the ones I've ridden.
With Staintunes and Keihin FCR41s, it makes the right kind of power for the chassis.
Love the bike, though I'm getting a little too creaky to ride it.
-
..Love the bike, though I'm getting a little too creaky to ride it.
Yes,sir. I actually got there about 2 years earlier in age than you :boozing:
-
The carb'd Sport 1100 engine is my favorite Guzzi engine, of all the ones I've ridden.
With Staintunes and Keihin FCR41s, it makes the right kind of power for the chassis.
Love the bike, though I'm getting a little too creaky to ride it.
Rode an S1000RR a few years ago , the magazines all wrote about how comfortable they are compared to other sport bikes , they lied :grin:
Dusty
-
....and the logarithmic increase in valvetrain stress and pressures from using higher lift cams with more duration.
I suppose you meant to say "exponential"? Logarithmic increase is less than linear.
-
I suppose you meant to say "exponential"? Logarithmic increase is less than linear.
Yes, that one! Busy morning.
-
" To really make it obvious: Nothing you do to any Guzzi will make it nearly as fast as a stock, used, $4K Yamaha R6. You'll just make your poor Guzzi suffer and far less reliable. "
I don't agree with the above statement regarding Moto Guzzi top speed ( Fast ? ) potential, and that's where the argue for limitations quote was mentioned, not the use of sheer will to overcome physics, such as gravity. So how fast is a used R6 ?
Been around engines and Guzzis for many years , and will just say, I`ve had different experiences with what a good cam will do with a well designed engine package. not based on lack of understanding, but experience. I`m still always learning though, especially when it comes to drinking others koolaid.
-
not the use of sheer will to overcome physics, such as gravity.
Gravity..??? :popcorn:
-
" To really make it obvious: Nothing you do to any Guzzi will make it nearly as fast as a stock, used, $4K Yamaha R6. You'll just make your poor Guzzi suffer and far less reliable. "
I don't agree with the above statement regarding Moto Guzzi top speed ( Fast ? ) potential, and that's where the argue for limitations quote was mentioned, not the use of sheer will to overcome physics, such as gravity. So how fast is a used R6 ?
Been around engines and Guzzis for many years , and will just say, I`ve had different experiences with what a good cam will do with a well designed engine package. not based on lack of understanding, but experience. I`m still always learning though, especially when it comes to drinking others koolaid.
But there is a huge difference between building a motor for the salt and building one that can be ridden reliably every day. I know you can built fast motors, you have the records to prove it, but how often does your LSR motor get rebuilt? How tractable is it? My guess is it would be a pig of a street motor.
Pete
-
My aim hear is to make the bike more fun, with a better punch out of corners, plus not running out of steam to quickly.
I don't know if the 4v has had the same problems as in the UK, but ALL the dealers (3) I know warned me off trading in due to the far lower reliability. This opinion is based on the amount of 4v's which per units sold, which where returned to the dealers with issues under warranty.
I'm what would be called a 'spirited rider'. The Griso is a good package, but any manufacturer has to compromise when designing a bike for the regulations within the different markets, plus scale of economy. Just getting a big litre aircooled engine through the emission tests for holomagation means the engine is set to run weak at certain points within the rev range, this affects the MPG. With re tuned ECU, my bike returns a far better MPG than the std set up.
As an example, I have sitting in the garage a Monster 1200r. This is my serious fun bike. By that I mean it's 'mental' compared with the Griso. Power wheels in the first 4 gears without trying, turns on a pin and can give any litre size bike a run for its money. The suspension, brakes and throttle response are as good as you can find on any litre sports bike.
Where am I going with this? My aim is not to turn my Griso into a Ducati Monster, rather personalize the bike with the handling, brakes and performance, whilst keeping the reliability.
Anyway, I've decided to have the heads flowed and ported as the next step.....
Please keep the comments coming.
I ride into mainland Europe regularly, out of the two, the Griso is my first choice every time. Comfortable, easy to ride, plenty of soft luggage space, and still turns heads for the styling.
-
Agree with you Pete , my LSR would make a terrible street engine, not much bottom end, and not designed to go 100 K miles. If it did, it certainly wouldn't be competitive. I`m not suggesting James turn his Griso motor into something like my Lemans 1000 , but I do believe there is meat on the table for improved performance without sacrificing reliability, that's all..
My LSR engine has never had a full rebuild , but it is probably due for one.
Back to my question, How fast would a Guzzi have to go to hand a can of Ass Whoop to a used R6 , street legal or not ?
-
Agree with you Pete , my LSR would make a terrible street engine, not much bottom end, and not designed to go 100 K miles. If it did, it certainly wouldn't be competitive. I`m not suggesting James turn his Griso motor into something like my Lemans 1000 , but I do believe there is meat on the table for improved performance without sacrificing reliability, that's all..
My LSR engine has never had a full rebuild , but it is probably due for one.
Back to my question, How fast would a Guzzi have to go to hand a can of Ass Whoop to a used R6 , street legal or not ?
The R 6 is out to 116.7 hp acording to google crank or wheel I have no idea, however the bike is also lighter than any of the big blocks, so you will need to make more and a fair wack more than that just to keep up so I think we are crawling into MGS-01 terrirtory 130ish hp. More importantly IMO is the spool up speed of the R6 or any modern inline four or twin for that matter compared to the relatively long stroke of the Guzzi, the Guzzi would also need more gearing as most of them run out of rpm and gearing around 230kph mark unless its a Griso that annectdotally its all over by 180kph (possibly only the two valve version).
We haven't talked about handling yet either, around corners heavier bike with longer wheel base and lazier steering do you intend to make up the deficit in a straight line? There is also no slipper clutch avliable for the Guzzi a motor that probablly would truely benifit from it, as I mentioned its rolling a turd in glitter. Could it be done, probablly but you could buy two or three new R6's for the cost or one R1 with some cash left over for go faster bits and a few go faster courses for the rider. You'd have a motor with all the reliability of a nail bomb, espcially if you limited yourself to the two valve something about, poo, pointy sticks and a steep incline.
-
Back to my question, How fast would a Guzzi have to go to hand a can of Ass Whoop to a used R6 , street legal or not ?
Well obviously a lot of that would depend on how well looked after it had been. Most of the Squiddy types will tell you that "Jap 4's are worn out by 20,000 miles." or some such stuff and nonsense. I believe that the reason for that is simply because a lot of them never have anything done to them beyond oil and filter changes! When the valves go off or the tb's go out of sync they don't run as well, their suspension never gets looked at, chassis bearings are never checked so they begin to wobble so they are 'Worn out'.
As to how fast they are? In absolute terms I have no idea but a correctly tuned and set up 600 Supersport will easily make 100HP at the wheel and they're so light you have to put a brick on the seat to stop them blowing away in a light breeze. They are fast. Gear them for top speed alone and I'm sure they could be terrifyingly fast but going that sort of speed is well above my pay grade! I get a bit of wee coming out when I hit an indicated 200 on the Griso!
I honestly believe that you wouldn't be able to build any Guzzi, (With the possible exception of an MGS-01.) that would be able to outrun a well set up 600 SS. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.
As for the OP's bike certainly some flow work will pay dividends but the throttlebody choke size and port size is a limiting factor. Getting a pair of V11 heads, twin plugging them and using the larger TB's and mapping to suit coupled with flow work might make a significant difference. Just speculation.
Pete
-
I have no idea... the Guzzi would also need more gearing as most of them run out of rpm and gearing around 230kph mark unless its a Griso that annectdotally its all over by 180kph (possibly only the two valve version).
Motorcycle Consumer News recorded the top speed of the 2-valve Griso at 129.3 mph (208 kph), not the 112 mph (180 kph) you pulled out of your derriere. The 4-valve went 143.95 mph (231.6 kph).
Moto
-
Motorcycle Consumer News recorded the top speed of the 2-valve Griso at 129.3 mph (208 kph), not the 112 mph (180 kph) you pulled out of your derriere. The 4-valve went 143.95 mph (231.6 kph).
Moto
So even the 4 valve is barely faster than a 20year old 1100 sport.
-
The point is that your figures were wrong.
Moto
-
So even the 4 valve is barely faster than a 20year old 1100 sport.
No, the 8V isn't a lot faster but it will get you there a lot quicker!
Pete
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wv216pxQtF3Ww/giphy.gif)
-
So even the 4 valve is barely faster than a 20year old 1100 sport.
I have seen 200 on the Norge @ about 60,000 k and that was confirmed with the GPS on board.
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wv216pxQtF3Ww/giphy.gif)
WHS^^^
-
Simple really .......its about the Ride... i can have as much or more fun riding my 1100 Griso as any other bike, even though it does not have the capacity for outright speed as compared to say a R6 or my 1200 Bandit... it doesn't fricken matter .. ..
-
Back to my question, How fast would a Guzzi have to go to hand a can of Ass Whoop to a used R6 , street legal or not ?
IMHO you won't ever get there with a sreetable Guzzi. Most well cared for 600cc sport bikes can top 150 mph. One set up for track days will top 160 mph.
-
A stock R6 will run 160 MPH , maybe even a little faster .
Dusty
-
IMHO you won't ever get there with a sreetable Guzzi. Most well cared for 600cc sport bikes can top 150 mph. One set up for track days will top 160 mph.
Actually depending on the track the track R6 might only do about 140mph, it will get there in a thumping hurry though.
-
Motorcycle Consumer News recorded the top speed of the 2-valve Griso at 129.3 mph (208 kph), not the 112 mph (180 kph) you pulled out of your derriere. The 4-valve went 143.95 mph (231.6 kph).
Moto
129.3 mph, that's good enough for me with only a small screen to hide behind. 120 mph on the UK cart tracks is pretty scary as it is.
I suppose what matters is what happens before it get's there. I would happily accept another 10ft/lbs of mid range torque over any top speed increases.
-
A stock R6 will run 160 MPH , maybe even a little faster .
Dusty
For anyone interested this months (UK )Bike magazine has a road test of the new R6 and a article on buying a used Griso 1200 8V .
Basically they say the latest R6 is so track day focused most people would not enjoy riding it on the road unless they had owned a high performance two stroke.
The article on the 1200 Griso doesn't make comfortable reading for a potential buyer. The guy that wrote it owns a Guzzi shop specialising in pre-2000 models.
http://www.motoguzzisales.co.uk/
Some of the things he mentions as potential problems I have not heard of before. Here is the list:
Air filter. Small foam strips come loose and get stuck in the throttle bodies.
Battery. Terminals corrode.
Cam Followers. Enough said.
Engine oil. Only use SG 10/60.
Oxygen sensor. Mis-threaded by the factory.
Drive box bearings. Failure on early models.
Clutch judder. Common but not serious.
Fuelling. Poor factory mapping.
Rough idle in cold weather.
Plug caps. OE caps are poor quality.
The magazine specs include 144mph top speed and a 8/10 rating.
-
For anyone interested this months (UK )Bike magazine has a road test of the new R6 and a article on buying a used Griso 1200 8V .
Basically they say the latest R6 is so track day focused most people would not enjoy riding it on the road unless they had owned a high performance two stroke.
The article on the 1200 Griso doesn't make comfortable reading for a potential buyer. The guy that wrote it owns a Guzzi shop specialising in pre-2000 models.
http://www.motoguzzisales.co.uk/
Some of the things he mentions as potential problems I have not heard of before. Here is the list:
Air filter. Small foam strips come loose and get stuck in the throttle bodies.
Battery. Terminals corrode.
Cam Followers. Enough said.
Engine oil. Only use SG 10/60.
Oxygen sensor. Mis-threaded by the factory.
Drive box bearings. Failure on early models.
Clutch judder. Common but not serious.
Fuelling. Poor factory mapping.
Rough idle in cold weather.
Plug caps. OE caps are poor quality.
The magazine specs include 144mph top speed and a 8/10 rating.
A shop that specialises in fossils gives the 'Good Oil' on CARC bikes! Oh my aching sides!
On their list the only relevant criticisms are the flat tappet fiasco, poor mapping and the bevelbox bearings in early models!
Look at the rest of this crap.
The 'Foam Strips', (Whose purpose I've never grasped?) are in the snorkel. For them to get to the throttle bodies they must of been allowed to fall into the airbox while the filter was being changed! Shaved Ape territory!
Battery terminals corrode? Yeah. They do that if you don't put some terminal protectsnt or Vaseline on them. Same as any othe bleeding battery using the same materials and technology.
Oil type is a red herring. Nothing will save flat tappets.
Oxygen sensor mis threaded? They've seen this how often? Did it coincide with the visit of the tooth fairy to the workshop because I've never seen such a problem.
Very early bevelboxes had a shit bearing. There was a recall, from 2007 the problem disappeared.
Clutch 'Judder'? Never had it. There is what i christened the 'Stelvio Groan' on early models but 'Juddering'?
Rough idle in cold weather? Not if it's actually tuned right!
Plug caps are perfectly fine as long as they aren't abused. If you take them off correctly you don't need the factory tool but you have to know how. It's not the caps that are the problem. It's the method of removal.
No mention at all of the really critical issue of lack of grease in both swing arm bearings and shock linkages.
The whole thing is a huge, boiling pit of ignorant, uninformed arse! I break wind not just in their general direction but copiously and lavishly directly at them!
Pete
-
.....Basically they say the latest R6 is so track day focused most people would not enjoy riding it on the road unless they had owned a high performance two stroke......
That's interesting
A number of years ago I read an article where a magazine took the latest Japanese sports bike of the time and one one of the previous years model which had less stratospheric power numbers but more torque and dressed them up to look the same and let various people ride them.
IIRC everyone preferred the more road "usable" machine
-
Same here.
I also read a comparo of the R1, GSXR 1000, ZX 10 and CBR 1000 R back when they were at each other's throats.
To summarise, every hard riding journo and ex superbike racer was quickest on the ZX or R1, all were slowest on the Honda.
Most people would have written their cheque for the Suzuki..
Every street rider was fastest on the Honda and without exception were slowest on the ZX 10.
Conclusion..?
If you're a normal bloke, you'll be fastest on the slowest bike....(more or less..)
-
That's interesting
A number of years ago I read an article where a magazine took the latest Japanese sports bike of the time and one one of the previous years model which had less stratospheric power numbers but more torque and dressed them up to look the same and let various people ride them.
IIRC everyone preferred the more road "usable" machine
Mkae no mistake the 600 super sports are the 250 two strokes of the modern age, brillant on song almost awlful off although a hell of lot more flexiable than say a 250 RGV or RS250 and thier ilk. They also don't foul plugs and have a drinking problem having said that with the diverse range of bikes on offer these days there are plently of alternatives of bikes somewhere inbetween without resorting to trying to squeeze more hp out of the empty tube that is the Guzzi two valve motors.
-
(https://i.ibb.co/JB3RpQ6/P1020962.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JB3RpQ6)
The Griso 1100 is a nice motorcycle ... :bow:
-
(https://i.ibb.co/JB3RpQ6/P1020962.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JB3RpQ6)
The Griso 1100 is a nice motorcycle ... :bow:
Needs more valves...(apparently..)
-
Needs more valves...(apparently..)
All the bike really needs .....is to be ridden
-
Needs more valves...(apparently..)
When did anyone say that?
-
When did anyone say that?
It's a joke Pete, given that I've had a thrash on Wyno's and recognised the difference.
Although the superiority performance wise of the 8V vs 4V, has been pretty well documented on these pages.
-
No, the 8V isn't a lot faster but it will get you there a lot quicker!
Pete
Although this comment did seem at odds with the comment you made after re vitalising my old jigger.
It was to the effect of..
"It certainly goes ok, on a couple of roll on's I didn't really start reeling him in 'till 6,000 rpm."
On mine, that's 180 k's
-
The whole thing is a huge, boiling pit of ignorant, uninformed arse! I break wind not just in their general direction but copiously and lavishly directly at them!
Pete
Is that why our weather has been crap here this week (and most of the preceding ones). :undecided:
-
I guess I missed where the OP said he wanted his Griso to be faster than a R6. The way I read his posts, he just enjoys a project. The Griso happens to be what he's fiddling with. I had a lot of fun messing with my 1200 Sport and eventually saw a GPS verified 138mph top end. Is that fast? Not really. It is for a Guzzi though. It's also fast if you have a get-off and are bouncing down the road. Anyway, why second guess the OP? It's like you guys are criticizing him for liking a particular flavor of ice cream. Not everyone has to like vanilla and if he prefers pistachio let him. You should be thanking him. Anyone interested in tweaking their Guzzi should be happy for this thread. He's going step by step and testing each modification on a dyno. Not only that, he's testing it on the same dyno each time. He's doing this right. He's documenting it the most scientific way you can and he's sharing the information freely. He's like the anti-Todd Eagan. He's not hitting you up for money and he's not bullshitting anyone.
-
I guess I missed where the OP said he wanted his Griso to be faster than a R6. The way I read his posts, he just enjoys a project.
The op suggested no such thing quiet sensible, there were a number of other replies that suggested there was another 30hp freely avaliable from the 1100 sport, then someone asked what would it take to get an 1100 motor faster than an R6 and other than pushing out of a C130 at a great hieght the answer is quiet a bit and you might not get there. I think a number of people here haven't gone near a modern sports bike in the last 10-15 years and are not across the quantum leap in performance that has occoured in that time. Yes back in the day the 1100 sport was vaguely around the equivalent sports bikes of the era sadly nothing Guzzi has made since has really been in the hunt even with the step up the CRAC series bikes provided. I'm currently debating weather to put mine on classic/club registration next year as it is over 25years old its a fun old thing but its performance in a straight line is positively pedestrian, I don't take it on group rides anymore.
-
I think a number of people here haven't gone near a modern sports bike in the last 10-15 years and are not across the quantum leap in performance that has occoured in that time.
I think that endlessly beating that drum is not going to make late model sport bikes any more appealing for those of us who have tried them and find them completely unappealing.
-
I just remembered watching this vid a few years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1kI_9caRz4
-
I guess I missed where the OP said he wanted his Griso to be faster than a R6. The way I read his posts, he just enjoys a project. The Griso happens to be what he's fiddling with. I had a lot of fun messing with my 1200 Sport and eventually saw a GPS verified 138mph top end. Is that fast? Not really. It is for a Guzzi though. It's also fast if you have a get-off and are bouncing down the road. Anyway, why second guess the OP? It's like you guys are criticizing him for liking a particular flavor of ice cream. Not everyone has to like vanilla and if he prefers pistachio let him. You should be thanking him. Anyone interested in tweaking their Guzzi should be happy for this thread. He's going step by step and testing each modification on a dyno. Not only that, he's testing it on the same dyno each time. He's doing this right. He's documenting it the most scientific way you can and he's sharing the information freely. He's like the anti-Todd Eagan. He's not hitting you up for money and he's not bullshitting anyone.
Agreed, the R6 thing is a red herring but I did like the description of trying to squeeze toothpaste out of an empty tube.
(Do note I've recently bought another 2V Tonti. I'm not averse to them and they are fun to warm up.)
Pete
-
I don't think anyone else is under the impression that the OP wanted wants his Griso to be faster than an R6. I appreciate what he`s doing and wrote there`s some more power available. Another poster or two writes that these engines are clapped out as is and that "nothing could be done to make any Guzzi that would make it faster than a $4k R6 " , totally different subject , and an untrue statement. There are Guzzis that have been timed in the 160`s, 170`s and even over 180 mph.
I enjoyed the snot out of my Griso 1100 , it had about perfect balance and was one of the easiest and fun Guzzis ever imho.
-
I don't think anyone else is under the impression that the OP wanted wants his Griso to be faster than an R6. I appreciate what he`s doing and wrote there`s some more power available. Another poster or two writes that these engines are clapped out as is and that "nothing could be done to make any Guzzi that would make it faster than a $4k R6 " , totally different subject , and an untrue statement. There are Guzzis that have been timed in the 160`s, 170`s and even over 180 mph.
I enjoyed the snot out of my Griso 1100 , it had about perfect balance and was one of the easiest and fun Guzzis ever imho.
:thumb:
Given the history and current status of "Hop Up" projects, and racing projects, and racing clubs around the world, I don't understand the
"If you want to go faster, buy a faster bike"
responses.
A guy will spend $5000 to put a Horrocks supercharger on an MG-TC, which adds about 7 HP and raises the top speed of the little car to about 85 MPH from the stock 70 MPH. He already knows that he could go faster by buying a Nissan Versa, but that's hardly the point, is it?
A guy wants to go faster on the flat track, so he punches his 650 BSA out to 750 ccs, ports and polishes the heads, and is STILL going 3/4 the speed of a Yamaha TZ750. Does that mean he's just dumb, and he should buy something faster?
A guy enjoys riding with his buddies, but wants a bit more "punch" on the road, so he puts 1000 cc cylinders on his 850 Eldorado. Would you tell him "That's no good, it's STILL not as fast as a Centauro, why don't you just cash the Eldo in and use the money to buy a Centauro and go WAY faster ... " ?
Sometimes it's not about just going fast - you can't outfast everyone, there's always one guy with more money and testosterone than you. Sometimes it's about having the satisfaction of getting the most out of what you've got, and you can't make that decision with just a calculator ....
Lannis