Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mrv on September 06, 2021, 10:07:52 PM
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Any mods out there or remedies to keep the sidestand from dragging on a Norge? Other than the obvious of slowing down.
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Maybe time to slow down. I have a 2011. Have had quite "spirited rides" on the Talimena Scenic Drive and it's off shoots and all over NW and N central Ark. Have scuffed my boots and scraped the feelers but not the center stand or side stand. Maybe try body shifting more into the turn which helps keep the bike more upright.
GliderJohn
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Any mods out there or remedies to keep the sidestand from dragging on a Norge? Other than the obvious of slowing down.
Most likely your rear shock is set too soft or shot by now, barring that, it may be time to replace it with an after market one which are all infinitely superior to the stocker.
I went with a Wilbers on the rear shock, made a world of difference, along with heavier 15 wt oil in the front forks.
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Most likely your rear shock is set too soft or shot by now, barring that, it may be time to replace it with an after market one which are all infinitely superior to the stocker.
I went with a Wilbers on the rear shock, made a world of difference, along with heavier 15 wt oil in the front forks.
What Paul says.. the sidestand is ridiculously easy to drag on the stock Norge.
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I did not know if anyone has used the euro side sand, it seems to be made different.
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What year Norge?
I think the early ones had a very soft spring in the rear which was stiffened up afterward.
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I'd drag the stock stand on my 14 Norge all the time. You need a better shock.
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My Norge is a 2012
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All the more reason to replace the rear shock. It's toast.
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After messing with and setting the suspension on my 08 I do get way less scraping now and better handling. Honestly I got rid of the tip over feeling getting into turns and slow speed stuff too. When really getting after it, I still hit the centerstand on lefties and my toe if I don’t move my foot back on righties.
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I can't feel any issues with the shock when riding. Since I don't notice issues with the shock any other time I don't feel it's worth the cost of an aftermarket shock on the old goose at this point. It just hard to imagine the engineer who designed the side stand thinking "that's perfect, let's put a hard part below the level of the folding foot peg". Guess I could put the feelers back on and try to ride it like a Harley. Or at least like our local Harleys do.
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2008 Norge with Matris suspension upgrades F/R here. I can scrape 'em if I want to but don't HAVE to. YMMV as I have the European sidestand
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It's a mistake to think a 2012 manufactured shock absorber is operating at anything like it's designed specs.
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I know my shock is not anything like it was new. But $500-1000 for a shock, just too much..
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One option would to be to call Hamlin Cycles and see if they have a late model take-off for sale. It'll have a better spring rate than yours and may, say again, may be an improvement. Jim knows the Norge inside and out and does a lot of shock work.
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How are you dragging your sidestand? My center stand hits waaay before the sidestand possibly could?
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Sidestand drags in left-hand corners, mainly because it sits under the left footpeg. That's why I was wondering if there are any mods that can be done to the side stand or if the euro model sets in a different position, I know the euro model is straight as opposed to the crooked US model.
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On my '14 Norge I would drag both side and center. The center was easy as I rarely use it - I just removed it. The side stand had that funky bend and it was getting progressively worse making the bike lean further. I also wanted a bigger foot on the stand so I cut it, reformed it more like the euro stand coming down straighter, and welding a larger foot on the end. I have not dragged since, but in fairness I did also put a Nitron shock on the rear.(by the way it is for sale on the swap meet section).
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Do you by chance have a photo of your stand?
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All the talk about how my shock needs replaced actually had me looking at prices. Then it dawned on me as I hopped on my bike to head to work. The best shock in the world is not going to fix the elephant in the room, the fact that the side stand pad sits directly below the outer edge of the foot peg.
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All the talk about how my shock needs replaced actually had me looking at prices. Then it dawned on me as I hopped on my bike to head to work. The best shock in the world is not going to fix the elephant in the room, the fact that the side stand pad sits directly below the outer edge of the foot peg.
Not true...unless your side stand is bent unnaturally. Now some of us have cut the side stand a bit at an angle to make it sit up a tad higher...that does help too...but the shock is the main culprit on dragging.
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100% correct. His bike is squatting too much in the rear. The OEM shock did that when new. Now it's how old? A better shock with proper spring rate will go a long way to correcting the issue.
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...unless your (Norge) side stand is bent unnaturally.
All Norge side stands are bent unnaturally :evil: :evil:
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100% correct. His bike is squatting too much in the rear. The OEM shock did that when new. Now it's how old? A better shock with proper spring rate will go a long way to correcting the issue.
Or he could look into proper setup (say, here: https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/suspension-setup-guide/ (https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/suspension-setup-guide/), and then shop for a higher rate spring if needed. (Has the rear sag been checked?) The shock internals do not determine whether the bike drags: it's the spring, the setup, and the shock length. If the OP feels the shock itself is damping properly, he may not want to replace it. We don't all have to be racers.
Has anyone looked carefully at the Parts Manual for the Norge? The Euro stand mounts to a different plate (and needs a different bolt). See https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/spare_parts_catalog_norge_2006.pdf (https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/spare_parts_catalog_norge_2006.pdf), page 16. It looks like the Euro plate has a higher pivot.
Has anyone looked at photos from a European review of the the European Norge, to see if the stand protrudes less? Here's a photo from Motociclismo. Does it help answer the question?
(https://www.motociclismo.es/uploads/s1/64/79/88/7/moto-guzzi-norge-1200-1.jpeg)
Just recommending a new shock is not in the Guzzi spirit of miserliness thriftiness, seems to me. :laugh:
Moto
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All Norge side stands are bent unnaturally :evil: :evil:
Now that's funny! :thumb: :thumb:
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I was trying to keep it simple. Of course there are other concerns. The as delivered OEM shocks on early Norge bikes was questionable at best, both in spring rate and internal performance. The nitty gritty is available in the RaceTech book, among other places. The guy's bike is grinding-that points to a problem. Start by cranking it up and adjust the damping to most likely max. But, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it won't matter much-especially with a load. The idea that a 2012 shock has anything resembling life left inside of it (no contamination, metallic partials just to name two) is not a conclusion I'd make. Ever.
Do as you please.
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Do you by chance have a photo of your stand?
These are the best I could come up with as the bike is now owned by Luis in KY. I don't know if he ever joined the site. I told him it would be a good idea as there is a wealth of information available.
(https://i.ibb.co/JFQCMVW/IMG-6874-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JFQCMVW)
(https://i.ibb.co/GTyT18z/IMG-6876-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTyT18z)
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... The idea that a 2012 shock has anything resembling life left inside of it (no contamination, metallic partials just to name two) is not a conclusion I'd make. Ever.
That doesn't make it so! :evil:
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I'll defer to your knowledge. No offense intended or should be inferred by this.
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I'll defer to your knowledge. No offense intended or should be inferred by this.
Dear King,
That's a very classy and temperate response. Thanks very much.
However, I don't really want deference, nor feel I deserve any!
Best wishes,
Moto
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If they post, here are picks of my side stand in the up position.
(https://i.ibb.co/qysJ67H/IMG-20210908-210706297.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qysJ67H)
(https://i.ibb.co/J3TZDs9/IMG-20210908-210713584.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3TZDs9)
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Bad, worn-out shock or not, the issue is the side stand hangs down below the peg.
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Bad, worn-out shock or not, the issue is the side stand hangs down below the peg.
That’s because your side stand is badly bent or extremely loosely bolted to the engine case or missing a bolt,….here’s what the proper angle of a side stand should look like…it should be much more aligned with the frame of the bike while yours is sticking way out to the side!
(https://i.ibb.co/tpmgTrP/8083244-F-CD4-F-4-B32-A7-A6-F50-B1-E09-E681.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tpmgTrP)
(https://i.ibb.co/YdFhqdW/0-FA19-E12-CB79-4-EE2-AD32-3-E92-EF83-ED97.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YdFhqdW)
(https://i.ibb.co/QQ2Qk4P/A2-C2160-A-F0-E7-4-E49-8-A18-4-CECD9-A1-F4-FE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QQ2Qk4P)
(https://i.ibb.co/ydLgFTk/E6-E1-E6-C8-03-D6-4-D80-A6-EE-EEDC23-ABD3-CC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ydLgFTk)
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Must be bent, as I have checked the bolts. When I got the bike the mounting plate bolts were loose, but have not been since I tightened them.
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If they post, here are picks of my side stand in the up position.
(https://i.ibb.co/qysJ67H/IMG-20210908-210706297.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qysJ67H)
(https://i.ibb.co/J3TZDs9/IMG-20210908-210713584.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3TZDs9)
Whoa
That is NOT where the sidestand falls on my Breva, not even close. That baby is bent or something?? Strapped down for a tow on the sidestand? Something is fishy there. Plate bent? Loose Bolts?
On my breva the stock stand nestles just up under the stock footpeg... When I put on 1/2" lower pegs (GL1800), the stand actually stops/rests on the underside of the left peg, pushing it up just a bit if you take your foot off.
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That’s a mess..
Take the damn thing off and have a look at it.
All the conjecture in the world will just muddy the waters, it needs examination out on the bench.
Does it look remotely like this in normal use ?
(https://i.ibb.co/Qbh86vC/547655-CE-5981-4337-81-AA-36-C550-A1-AD61.png) (https://ibb.co/Qbh86vC)
What’s the deal with the crazy bend, are you sure it’s a Norge stand ?
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When I first got my 1200 sport, the foot pegs were too high. So I installed 1.5 inch lower foot pegs and I had to modify my side stand. I took it off and cut straight down along the shaft. Figured out what size steel base I needed and had a welder cut and weld the base onto it. I haven’t had a problem with dragging and it works fine. Just need to shave off some areas and repaint them and keep the attachment bolts tight! Here are a few pictures of it extended and tucked in.
(https://i.ibb.co/qkdxLNc/240-CCF76-A920-4352-8-F5-C-454418-CE2629.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qkdxLNc)
(https://i.ibb.co/DzxcwX3/3-B8-AC932-0-A2-C-430-E-B464-179270943-AA5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DzxcwX3)
(https://i.ibb.co/HXphnzD/22742-D60-1-EDB-4-BC2-8010-E7-B464075-C8-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HXphnzD)
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That's how it's been since I got the bike. Just figured it was normal since I never had another to compare it to. Guess I'll pull it off this weekend and see what's up with it.
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On the side stand, always thought it should have a bit less bend, but never seeing another I didn't know.
(https://i.ibb.co/cbc6PX0/IMG-20210909-091747958.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbc6PX0)
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On the side stand, always thought it should have a bit less bend, but never seeing another I didn't know.
(https://i.ibb.co/cbc6PX0/IMG-20210909-091747958.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbc6PX0)
Fair enough mate.
That’s the wrong stand.
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Actual the stand is correct, and that bend at the foot is normal for US Norges…mine has had that since new.
But it clearly is sticking way out from the engine case…
Once you figure out the root cause, note also that you can cut a bit of the tang off, see the pic I posted above.
Here's a pic for comparison purposes...
(https://i.ibb.co/K93wbCL/IMG-1509.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K93wbCL)
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Paul is right, the U.S. model has a different part number(s) than the rest of the world. I'm sure of this as I used the parts manual numbers to purchase a Euro-style stand as depicted on Huzo's bike.
Your current stand as pictured is bent or something is wrong with the mounting setup.
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Apologies regarding the “wrong stand” comment.
If I got to Cedar Vale I would have known that... :embarrassed:
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You're still delerious from your epic ride! Take six of your favorite beers and call us in the morning :boozing:
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Nah.
I was stupid before I left.
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Well, I did some work on the sidestand and have not had any dragging issues yet.
(https://i.ibb.co/G9QKgbD/n1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G9QKgbD)
(https://i.ibb.co/cTySnCk/n2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cTySnCk)
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Nice work, that is exactly where it should tuck. You'll have to grind the entire peg off to drag that baby now! Next thing you will touch down is the centerstand deployment arm (thats the only thing I drag on mine)
If you need a heavier spring for the rear shock, there is a NOS one for sale in the swap meet section at 40% off retail. :boozing:
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Are you guys saying that any shock after a certain amount of time is worn out? I have a 95 Yam and a 96 Guzzi on their originals. They seem OK though. Neither are sports bikes and I am yet to drag a stand.
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I know I will have to address the rear shock at some point because nothing lasts forever. But it looks like I need to replace the fork seals this winter since I have one that is starting to seep. Also going to have to replace the grips since they are really getting tacky (without replacing the entier heated assembly)
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Are you guys saying that any shock after a certain amount of time is worn out? I have a 95 Yam and a 96 Guzzi on their originals. They seem OK though. Neither are sports bikes and I am yet to drag a stand.
In my case I'm only sayin that the early Norge/Breva 1100 bikes shipped from the factory with a too-weak rear spring. The fix was a heavier gauge spring on the same shock. It wasn't a recall or warranty item, I just think many bigger american riders, or those who travel fully loaded/2-up, or even those who ride solo but very sporty found the rear end to be mushy. A heavier shock spring remedied this squat.
But in general, all suspension components 'wear out' over time. could be leaky seals/loss of oil, old/contaminated oil, stiction, shaft/stanchion wear, or whatever.
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Even on my 2014 Norge with the rear spring rate maxed out (has the heavy stock spring), it was OK for my body weight of 200 lbs. But put a pillion on the back and the bike sags and steering becomes very sluggish. I have done spirited rides up in the mountains (solo) and never grounded out any part of the bike with the stock shock.
I went with a Matrix shock built to my weight just for the pillion sag problem.... Meaning a higher spring rate.
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Here's a pic for comparison purposes...
(https://i.ibb.co/K93wbCL/IMG-1509.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K93wbCL)
I love your side cases PJ.
They remind me of mine..
(https://i.ibb.co/RSVF3nD/A4-F32-A85-2510-4-AE7-936-E-EE474-C047-C21.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RSVF3nD)
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Lovely pic Peter! We share the same love of stickers!
If you like, I have a few extra ones from Cedar Vale from prior years that I have made, be glad to send a few your way so you can ride with us "in spirit"!
Cheers!
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Lovely pic Peter! We share the same love of stickers!
If you like, I have a few extra ones from Cedar Vale from prior years that I have made, be glad to send a few your way so you can ride with us "in spirit"!
Cheers!
Thank you for your offer Paul.
If I receive them I’ll pop them on. There’s a bit of space where the ones from Spain washed off...! :sad:
All things being equal, I’ll be back in Europe 2022 with the Norge and I’ll get some more.
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I know I will have to address the rear shock at some point because nothing lasts forever. But it looks like I need to replace the fork seals this winter since I have one that is starting to seep. Also going to have to replace the grips since they are really getting tacky (without replacing the entier heated assembly)
I’d be inclined to jump on the bike and measure the distance from a known point to the ground. Then compare that with someone else’s.... :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Sometimes all you need is a new spring.
I just ordered a new spring for my 08 Norge's rear shock from Kyle Racing yesterday. They say they're the biggest Ohlins distributor in the US. I scraped quite a bit of metal off of the foot plate on my side stand on my last ride on Rte 47 out of Clatskanie, OR on my last trip when loaded with camping gear. Someone's modified my sidestand (spliced with some tubing) and I think it sticks out more than stock. I've heard the stock shock and spring are designed for someone who weighs about 150 pounds. I'm pushing 220. With leathers and camping gear for long trips the spring is totally inadequate. On my last big ride I met a guy named Scott who has a heavier rated Ohlins spring on his stock shock and is happy with it. He's almost 300 pounds. I just received a text from him the other day telling me that for a Norge, the first part of the model number I want is 01092, which describes the length (170mm) and inside diameter (57mm). The next part of the number shows the force rating. Scott got the 54Y version which is 140nm. I ordered the 41Y version which is 115nm. Scott said he read something from a 190lb rider in gear who got a the 95nm version and says he wished he got the 105nm version. I figured the next step up from the 115, which is 130, would be too stiff for me. The guy I talked to at Kyle Racing felt the same way. Anyway, my new spring's on the way so I'll see how that goes. Given what I paid for my Norge, this seems a more sane way to acceptably solve this problem for me rather than getting new shock/spring for $500-$1,000. My spring costs $105.
Here's a link to the Ohlins Spring chart I'm hosting on my website:
http://nwguy.fun/mc/OhlinsSpringChart.pdf (http://nwguy.fun/mc/OhlinsSpringChart.pdf)
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Damn right.. :thumb: