Author Topic: Piaggio - What the ...?!  (Read 3322 times)

Offline janguzzi

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Piaggio - What the ...?!
« on: February 03, 2023, 12:59:19 PM »
Did you know that the Piaggio Group is currently forcing forum and website owners and professional stores to remove the word Guzzi from their names?
This is currently happening in Germany. Latest victim HMB Guzzi.
This is done by lawyers hired by the Piaggio Group.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 01:02:55 PM by janguzzi »
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2023, 01:01:37 PM »
Did you know that the Piaggio Group is currently forcing forum and website owners and professional stores to remove the word Guzzi from their names?
This is currently happening in Germany. Latest victim HMB Guzzi.

OK...what's up with that BUFFOONERY?!? 

Do they want it to say... "MOTO GUZZI" or what?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink:
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2023, 01:28:57 PM »
Next will be the Eagle, and don't have any of this on your business card or you are liable for a lawsuit.
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Offline Dirk_S

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2023, 01:53:14 PM »
Hopefully this doesn’t grow too much. I PERFECTLY understand the copyright legality…but in many fields, there’s often a threshold that includes gray areas where copyright could be argued, but the company may see it beneficial to continue to allow it.

Example: the case of comic book conventions where scores of artists make commissions and sketches of licensed characters to sell to the public. It’s often expressed that Marvel and DC continue to allow this because it helps their characters stay relevant. In this instance, since the dealer network/dedication is lacking as it is, it might be in the best interest for Piaggio to continue to allow the small number of fans/owners of the brand to help keep the name relevant.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 01:54:33 PM by Dirk_S »
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2023, 01:53:14 PM »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2023, 02:28:35 PM »
How about the folks that are making & selling decals for obsolete models? T shirts!
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Online Frenchfrog

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2023, 02:40:56 PM »
They tried to go down this route after the buy out if I remember correctly...cannot remember what the outcome was but obviously it was not that significant.

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2023, 03:13:39 PM »
I've seen this before by Mfgs. Usually they are trying to prevent names like "Steve's Moto Guzzi"
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2023, 03:21:25 PM »
Stupid. They don’t want free advertising ?
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Offline actwin

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2023, 03:27:11 PM »
Harley did the same thing  once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.

Offline Dirk_S

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2023, 03:51:25 PM »
Harley did the same thing  once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.

Therein I see the difference.

I’m an artist. I make a piece of art. I don’t want that art going onto any merchandise without my consent, because I deserve the profits. It’s my art, after all.

Now… when it comes to building of communities by collecting people around this art who will eventually want to buy my controlled-license merchandise.

Priorities. It’s not like Luap and these other folks are making a killing off this.
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Offline Enzo Toma

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2023, 03:56:17 PM »
Do you have more details on this? Was the issue that HMB Guzzi had not previously stated that they are not associated with Moto Guzzi?

Offline janguzzi

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2023, 04:20:13 PM »
Do you have more details on this? Was the issue that HMB Guzzi had not previously stated that they are not associated with Moto Guzzi?

It seems that this does not change anything - they have mentioned this:
https://hmb-guzzi.de/About-us
 => in the footer

 The HMB GUZZI owner is in progress now changing the name to HMB-MOTO to avoid trouble with Piaggio lawers. There is a thread from him in the German Guzzi Forum (more than 3600 members).
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 04:22:33 PM by janguzzi »
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2023, 04:43:55 PM »
Harley did the same thing  once their popularity skyrocketed so they could make money off the name. That's when the Harley bath towels hit the dealer shelves.

good thing Guzzi doesn't have any dealerships lol
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Offline Enzo Toma

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2023, 07:03:19 PM »
The footer text is new, it was not there in November. They likely added it in response to what has been requested by Piaggio lawyers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221128222651/https://hmb-guzzi.de/

I see it now on guzzi-forum.de , and the mention on GuzziTech forums.

Offline Bulldog9

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2023, 10:51:42 PM »
This is the reason why it's almost impossible to find decent wall art t-shirts etc that say Moto Guzzi.

It's also the reason why no one knows what the hell you're talking about when you say Moto Guzzi....

I'm a huge fan of the open source approach to the market as opposed to the closed.
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Offline krglorioso

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2023, 11:04:17 PM »
Royal Enfield went through nonsense like this with their present "Interceptor 650" models, one of which I own.  50-60 years ago RE had a model called the Interceptor.  When the parent company in UK folded, the name was picked up by Honda for their so-named V-4 models in the 1980s.  Honda apparently copyrighted the model name in the USA, only.

When RE came out with their Interceptor in 2019, Honda's well-oiled USA legal machine pounced on them and enjoined them from calling the model in the USA the "Interceptor 650". So, the hapless RE folks re-badged it the "INT-650".  What an "INT" is escapes me, but apparently Honda was satisfied.

I disliked this nonsensical moniker on my bike's side covers so I sourced a pair of perfectly-copied non-USA "Interceptor 650" decals from Sticker_Dude in Australia.  They fit right over the INT decals and the side covers.  I hope Honda lawyers do not peruse the WGC board.

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« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 11:08:25 PM by krglorioso »
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Offline Shorty

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2023, 11:15:51 PM »
We can always resort to the Alabama pronunciation: Goooozie. THAT will please the purists.  :evil:


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Offline janguzzi

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2023, 01:22:19 AM »
The footer text is new, it was not there in November. They likely added it in response to what has been requested by Piaggio lawyers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221128222651/https://hmb-guzzi.de/

I see it now on guzzi-forum.de , and the mention on GuzziTech forums.

Ahh okay, I decided to post this on other forums too (GuzzTech, Grisoghetto and V11Lemans) as a warning but also to make people think ...
is this really my brand anymore?
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2023, 06:21:14 AM »
We had "Vespa St Louis" - they sold everything Piaggio, Vespa, Aprilla, Moto Guzzi.  Well, ten years ago.
The St Louis dealer was done very well - It looked sorta like a Honda Powersports store or Harley dealer.

I thought it was the new business model, at the time, but I haven't seen one of these since this one folded.
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Offline moto

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2023, 08:23:30 AM »
I’m pretty sure this is why MG Cycle was MG Cycle from the first, instead of Moto Guzzi Cycle. Right from the beginning, they had a disclaimer of any association with Guzzi on their web page.

Regarding the name Interceptor, we shouldn’t forget that the 850 T was called that name when it was first introduced. Very quickly the “Interceptor” was dropped from the name. I wouldn’t be surprised if Honda was responsible way back then.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2023, 08:42:00 AM »
We can always resort to the Alabama pronunciation: Goooozie. THAT will please the purists.  :evil:

WTH?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 09:03:22 AM by Ncdan »
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2023, 08:58:46 AM »
Yeah, they do that on purpose..let’s the mother ship own and control where when and how Moto Guzzi created content is displayed and used.

Here’s an example. Instead of great tshirts for all models, it’s a T-shirt of a grossly inappropriate naked figure w “Moto Guzzi “ emblazoned across the top…Who is to say whether it’s an appropriate use except the original creator?

What would you being thinking if someone stole and copied the exact specifications of the V100, built them and sold them? It’s exactly the same case for logos artworks and photographs as engine design…

If you create it, you own the right to copy. That “copy right” is only transferable by written agreement.

In this day and age, tho, those rules are generally getting trampled. Every once in awhile the lawyers come out to reign it in

I agree Guzzi friendly shops should be allowed to use such things, but it needs to be specifically outlined by written agreements
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2023, 10:19:11 AM »
Did you know that the Piaggio Group is currently forcing forum and website owners and professional stores to remove the word Guzzi from their names?
This is currently happening in Germany. Latest victim HMB Guzzi.
This is done by lawyers hired by the Piaggio Group.

I got an e-mail from them today, now "HMB Moto".  What silliness, particularly given corporate's lack of support for legacy bikes.
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2023, 10:36:32 AM »
I’m pretty sure this is why MG Cycle was MG Cycle from the first, instead of Moto Guzzi Cycle. Right from the beginning, they had a disclaimer of any association with Guzzi on their web page.

Regarding the name Interceptor, we shouldn’t forget that the 850 T was called that name when it was first introduced. Very quickly the “Interceptor” was dropped from the name. I wouldn’t be surprised if Honda was responsible way back then.

IIRC, the "MG" in MG Cycle is from the first letter of Rick's last name and the first letter of Gordon's first name.

Honda had nothing named "Interceptor" until '83, so doubtful that they had anything to do with Guzzi dropping the name. Possibly Royal Enfield instead?
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Offline testa_di_formaggio

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2023, 12:02:43 PM »
IIRC, the "MG" in MG Cycle is from the first letter of Rick's last name and the first letter of Gordon's first name.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/bow.gif

That turned out rather creative it would seem.

FWIW, trademark type lawyers told me once upon a long time ago, that the parent company can beef about Moto Guzzi or Guzzi alone being used in a name, website, etc. Moto by itself however, they can't. Moto is not really trademarkable, as it only means "Motorcycle" in Italian. Therefore, Moto Guzzi, Moto Ducati, Moto Laverda, Moto Parilla etc. Possibly the folks in Germany got similar info, therefore that change. Also, was advised that disclaimers of association are worthless in such matters.

At the end of the day, think "Super Bowl" vs "The Big Game". Licensing $$$$$.

Online Tkelly

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2023, 03:16:27 PM »
I recall that MG Cycle had to revise their name after receiving a letter from Moto Guzzi lawyers when they first started the business.

Offline Bulldog9

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2023, 09:16:16 PM »
Yeah, they do that on purpose..let’s the mother ship own and control where when and how Moto Guzzi created content is displayed and used.

Here’s an example. Instead of great tshirts for all models, it’s a T-shirt of a grossly inappropriate naked figure w “Moto Guzzi “ emblazoned across the top…Who is to say whether it’s an appropriate use except the original creator?

What would you being thinking if someone stole and copied the exact specifications of the V100, built them and sold them? It’s exactly the same case for logos artworks and photographs as engine design…

If you create it, you own the right to copy. That “copy right” is only transferable by written agreement.

In this day and age, tho, those rules are generally getting trampled. Every once in awhile the lawyers come out to reign it in

I agree Guzzi friendly shops should be allowed to use such things, but it needs to be specifically outlined by written agreements

Spent 18 days in Italy. THOUSANDS of Ferrari, Ducati, Maserati T shirts all over the country, from Rome to a podunk T shirt shop on the Amalfi Coast. NOT ONE Guzzi shirt. Why? Guzzi licensing.   To their own demise IMNSHO
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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2023, 09:33:18 PM »
Spent 18 days in Italy. THOUSANDS of Ferrari, Ducati, Maserati T shirts all over the country, from Rome to a podunk T shirt shop on the Amalfi Coast. NOT ONE Guzzi shirt. Why? Guzzi licensing.   To their own demise IMNSHO

Do you know for sure it’s licensing that’s the issue there? Seems to me on the surface that folks there (and everywhere more or less) are attracted to the FAAAAASSSSTT Italian brands.

So maybe it’s as much brand marketing as it is licensing.
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Offline testa_di_formaggio

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2023, 12:45:23 AM »
I recall that MG Cycle had to revise their name after receiving a letter from Moto Guzzi lawyers when they first started the business.

Sorry Tkelly, that never happened.

Offline janguzzi

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Re: Piaggio - What the ...?!
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2023, 01:31:33 AM »
One of the administrators of the German Guzzi forum wrote:

Quote
The German language forum that I am involved in got hit too. We got a lawyer involved, and made the point that the forum is not commercial, and that using a trade name for non-commercial purposes is not illegal in Germany. €2.000 later, things have gone quiet, and we are assuming we are back off the radar. Mike at HMB is, however, commercial, but has no official connection to Moto Guzzi. He chose to take the route of least resistance, and change his domain name.

There is another place, run by Martin Hageman, that is specialised in the "small block" Guzzis. Good bloke, good service, and well stocked with parts. His business name is "Guzzi e piu" (Guzzi and more). I noticed today that he seems to be changing his web adresses to "gpiu.de", where it has always been "Guzziepiu.de". Maybe he has been targetted too.

There is a lawyers practice that has been contracted by Piaggio to search out instances of "Guzzi" on the interweb, contact them, and issue "cease and desist" demands. They first contacted the service provider for the above-mentioned forum, and then the chief admin of the forum whose name is on the bottom line of the forum. I gather Mike at HMB was contacted by the same bunch of lawyers.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 01:34:47 AM by janguzzi »
Kind Regards
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-1992-2002: 1000S, 2nd Series
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-2011: Griso 8V, Black
-2018-2021: California Vintage, Black

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