Author Topic: My Guzzi shut down on the road  (Read 1741 times)

Offline Milosh

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My Guzzi shut down on the road
« on: March 30, 2021, 09:16:26 AM »

Update: I trailered it to the dealership and they did a short test on the wiring harness. It was the ignition switch. The service advisor told me that the part is probably in Italy, which means I'm without motorcycle for the time being.

I was riding along the highway and all of a sudden...everything turned off. It was as if the someone turned the key to the off position.

I coasted to the side of the road and cycled the key on and off twice and then the bike was able to be restarted.

And then it happened again when I pulled into the parking lot backing up into my spot.

I'm going to check the battery connections, but is there something else you would look out for?

Thanks.

It's a 2017 V9 Bobber with a few thousand miles on her. I usually keep her on a Battery Tender if I'm not riding for a few weeks.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 05:49:41 PM by Milosh »
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2021, 09:20:53 AM »
I would also look at the connection where the negative battery cable is grounded on the other end. But yes, looking for lose connections would be in order.

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Offline Vagrant

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2021, 09:36:16 AM »
more than one V7/9 ignition switch has failed. broken wire on the back.
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2021, 09:47:02 AM »
more than one V7/9 ignition switch has failed. broken wire on the back.

On the bottom of the switch or the back? What should I look for? I'll take a look at lunch time.
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2021, 09:47:02 AM »

Offline Vagrant

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2021, 10:10:33 AM »
I'm not sure if it can be seen w/o removal but I bet you can get a finger up there and wiggle a tiny bit while running. My V7 is 1800 miles away so I can't check. Anybody else?
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2021, 11:07:30 AM »
I think the V9 will be similar to the V7 the ground connection is a large lug on a stud right on top of the gearbox.
Scrape the battery terminals and apply some grease (Vaseline or any grease) to prevent Lead Oxide build up, that can happen quite quickly.
Here is the schematic see how the fuses are divided into two groups ABC and DEF which are joined by the ignition switch.
If it happens again take a test light or meter and see if one DEF are alive while ABC is dead which would point to an open switch.
If group DEF is also dead it's something to do with the battery connections.
Carry a short piece of wire you can jumper across the two groups to bypass the switch if you need to until you fix the problem
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2017_V9_Bobber.gif
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 11:18:51 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Online Huzo

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2021, 01:35:23 PM »
I bet you can get a finger up there and wiggle a tiny bit while running.
Amazing that you say that, I know a proctologist that just did an ultra marathon....!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 01:36:00 PM by Huzo »

Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2021, 04:31:19 PM »
Thanks for the responses.

In the parking lot at work, I checked the battery connections, which were good. I also checked the ignition switch (as much as I could). I also checked the side-stand switch. All seemed good. I rode it home with no issues, but I'm going to have to do further investigations now.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2021, 05:04:12 PM »
Thanks for the responses.

In the parking lot at work, I checked the battery connections, which were good. I also checked the ignition switch (as much as I could). I also checked the side-stand switch. All seemed good. I rode it home with no issues, but I'm going to have to do further investigations now.

I had a Ducati that would stop dead from time to time and restart fine. I eventually realised it always happened doing slow r/h turns like tight roundabouts or pulling into my drive way. I traced it to a loose ignition switch connector on the back of the switch which would break contact when the steering was turned with the wiring moving.

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2021, 05:23:35 PM »
At home with the bike idling, reach in behind the switch and move the loom around a bit, if there’s a loose wire that should cut the motor.

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2021, 05:52:47 PM »
"And then it happened again when I pulled into the parking lot backing up into my spot."  Don't back up.   :shocked:   :grin:

Like everyone else said check your hot lead connections.  Recheck your ground strap to the frame.  Crack it loose then retighten.
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2021, 06:42:36 PM »
Will the engine stop on your bike if you disconnect the battery while it’s running at well above idle ?
Was not always the case, on a lot of bikes the engine would keep going as long as the alternator was supplying current.
I mention it because, if your bike will run without the battery at higher than idle revs, then a failing battery won’t STOP your bike. It will just refuse to re start it.
How many times have you seen a bike with a flat battery jump start and the leads are taken off immediately and it keeps going, with the command as you ride off...
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2021, 07:14:57 PM »
Will the engine stop on your bike if you disconnect the battery while it’s running at well above idle ?

The whole bike stopped running at 70 mph like I hit a kill switch.

Quote
Recheck your ground strap to the frame.  Crack it loose then retighten.

Gonna hafta trace it because I don't see it on the frame, unless someone's got a clue where it is.

Quote
I eventually realised it always happened doing slow r/h turns like tight roundabouts or pulling into my drive way. I traced it to a loose ignition switch connector on the back of the switch which would break contact when the steering was turned with the wiring moving.

I was going dead straight each time. I'm beginning to suspect the ignition switch, though. I'm gonna do some more diagnostics after work tomorrow.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.
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Online Tom

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2021, 09:14:46 PM »
Good Luck.
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2021, 09:34:27 PM »
I HATE[ intermittent faults!!!
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Offline Scout63

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2021, 09:48:23 PM »
Someone with more knowledge correct me, but if the whole bike shuts down then your problem should be between the battery and ignition switch inclusive, or the switch and the main fuse panel inclusive.  Trace those circuits with a voltmeter and check grounds.  Also check the main fuse.
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2021, 09:53:50 PM »
but if the whole bike shuts down then your problem should be between the battery and ignition switch inclusive, or the switch and the main fuse panel inclusive.

Its a fuel injected bike.  Couldn't it be an intermittent pump, failing pressure regulator,  timing sensors?.  I'm with MUZZ.  This intermittent stuff sucks.  Works fine one day and not the next.  Basic scientific principle;  you can't prove a negative.  You could 'fix' a dozen things and go for a perfect 100 mile ride.  Next day it won't start.  Crap!

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2021, 10:04:19 PM »
Milosh, you don't actually say if the whole dash stayed dark, or whether any lights came on when the bike died.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2021, 10:15:52 PM »
Its a fuel injected bike.  Couldn't it be an intermittent pump, failing pressure regulator,  timing sensors?. I'm with MUZZ.  This intermittent stuff sucks.  Works fine one day and not the next.  Basic scientific principle;  you can't prove a negative.  You could 'fix' a dozen things and go for a perfect 100 mile ride.  Next day it won't start.  Crap!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Won't be any of those if the "whole bike shut down" as in total power loss. From the OP's first post  "everything turned off. It was as if the someone turned the key to the off position" Troubleshooting 101, if you don't know what it can be then eliminate what it can't be.

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 10:20:31 PM by lucky phil »
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2021, 02:00:05 AM »
The only reason I asked if your bike will run without the battery once started, is that if it will, then the bike quitting at high speed will not be the battery.

Offline Paul_Tim

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2021, 03:21:08 AM »
I have a Stelvio that did exactly the same a couple of years ago, it was a break in one of the wires from the ignition switch to the ECU. Had broken inside the insulation where the harness from the switch routed round the headstock and would at random switch everything off exactly like turning the ignition off.
Cut the sleeving off the harness and pulled/wiggled each wire until I could get a permanent fault then cut/spliced new wire in. Works OK since then.

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2021, 05:56:33 AM »
I have a Stelvio that did exactly the same a couple of years ago, it was a break in one of the wires from the ignition switch to the ECU. Had broken inside the insulation where the harness from the switch routed round the headstock and would at random switch everything off exactly like turning the ignition off.
Cut the sleeving off the harness and pulled/wiggled each wire until I could get a permanent fault then cut/spliced new wire in. Works OK since then.
That often happens in older high milage bikes, copper work hardens and snaps if it is constantly bending in a confined space, I'm surprised it would happen in a new bike like the Stelvio, wires around the headstock should bend gently over several inches, more of a twisting motion and not held tight in a loom. if the wires are breaking at a low milage that's sloppy workmanship.
Note the OP said it happened twice backing into a parking space when the bike might have been on full lock but the first time he was going straight down the road.
With an intermittent fault you need to be prepared to troubleshoot when it happens thats why I suggested testing for Voltage at the fuse panel A,B,C are switched while D,E,F should always be ON
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2017_V9_Bobber.gif
Monitor the Voltage at ABC with a lamp while swinging from lock to lock and wrenching the loom as much as you can. (Jamb one wire in a fuse holder with the other under a bolt)
A simple lamp is much more visual than a digital multimeter for this task.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 06:26:51 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2021, 06:20:36 AM »
Milosh, you don't actually say if the whole dash stayed dark, or whether any lights came on when the bike died.

The dash went dark. No lights. No hazards. Nothing. That was the scary part. I've had bikes stall and been able to restart them. This was different.
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2021, 05:14:52 PM »
Update for those interested.

I talked with Enzo at Cadre. He suggested I try a few things first, which I did this afternoon.

1. Check the main fuse. I checked the main fuse by eye and by continuity. Good.

2. Make sure the battery terminals are tight with a 10mm wrench. Did that. I had previously attached them with just the Philips.

3. Inspect the main wire connection to the ECU on the throttle body. That seemed tight and pressing it on further made no movement.

4. Check the kill switch on the handlebar. It works. Noteably, the kill switch allows the lights to stay on, but in my instance everything goes out.

5. Check the ignition switch. It works. But I have an intermittent problem!

So now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. I may get the GuzziDiag and see what that does. But because it's intermittent, it may not show up.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2021, 05:24:30 PM »
Update for those interested.

I talked with Enzo at Cadre. He suggested I try a few things first, which I did this afternoon.

1. Check the main fuse. I checked the main fuse by eye and by continuity. Good.

2. Make sure the battery terminals are tight with a 10mm wrench. Did that. I had previously attached them with just the Philips.

3. Inspect the main wire connection to the ECU on the throttle body. That seemed tight and pressing it on further made no movement.

4. Check the kill switch on the handlebar. It works. Noteably, the kill switch allows the lights to stay on, but in my instance everything goes out.

5. Check the ignition switch. It works. But I have an intermittent problem!

So now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. I may get the GuzziDiag and see what that does. But because it's intermittent, it may not show up.

What does this mean? Did you start the bike and grab the wiring to the ignition switch and give it a good shake around and also turn the handlebars full lock both directions? You probably dont even need the engine running for this check as the symptoms you have described are main power related.
Guzzidiag won't tell you anything.

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 05:25:12 PM by lucky phil »
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Online elvisboy77

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2021, 05:29:24 PM »
Update for those interested.

I talked with Enzo at Cadre. He suggested I try a few things first, which I did this afternoon.

1. Check the main fuse. I checked the main fuse by eye and by continuity. Good.

2. Make sure the battery terminals are tight with a 10mm wrench. Did that. I had previously attached them with just the Philips.

3. Inspect the main wire connection to the ECU on the throttle body. That seemed tight and pressing it on further made no movement.

4. Check the kill switch on the handlebar. It works. Noteably, the kill switch allows the lights to stay on, but in my instance everything goes out.

5. Check the ignition switch. It works. But I have an intermittent problem!

So now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. I may get the GuzziDiag and see what that does. But because it's intermittent, it may not show up.

If you did all of that then the most probable thing is an issue with the one piece that moves so to speak, the ignition switch.  I would check that out carefully or even replace it, maybe blast it with contact cleaner first, that is what I would do..

Cadre are good folks to help you like that.
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2021, 05:32:56 PM »
Quote
What does this mean? Did you start the bike and grab the wiring to the ignition switch and give it a good shake around and also turn the handlebars full lock both directions? You probably dont even need the engine running for this check as the symptoms you have described are main power related.

That's exactly what I did.

Quote
Cadre are good folks to help you like that.

Enzo is a mensch. I don't many MG dealerships, but of the ones I know, he's the one I trust the most.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2021, 05:45:00 PM »
That's exactly what I did.


Then you probably need to replace the ignition switch or possibly the kill switch. Intermittent problems can be hard to solve and sometimes it's a matter of elimination from most likely/least expensive to the opposite.

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 05:45:30 PM by lucky phil »
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Online Muzz

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2021, 05:45:29 AM »
The dash went dark. No lights. No hazards. Nothing. That was the scary part. I've had bikes stall and been able to restart them. This was different.

To me this says that is in you main connection from the battery to the switch.

You have checked the fuse.  My thinking the problem then is in the wire to the switch, or the switch itself.  Beyond that I would think that at least something should go.  It does not sound like the EFI module to me.

When a stone took out most of the sidestand switch everything including the EFI light lit up, which actually really scared me.  Electrical constipation in electronics where it won't pass a current is somewhat worrying.
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2021, 06:40:45 AM »
Two thoughts.

* Are you SURE the WHOLE bike shut down (i.e. there was no headlight or tail light?) - I mean from the seat you might not be able to tell.

* Wiggle and Tap test - intermittents can sometimes be found by running the bike while wiggling each possible wiring harness and/or gently tapping on the suspect component. Stick a small screwdriver up into contact with the ignition switch and tap lightly on the handle. If the bike cuts out while doing either test, Bob's Your Uncle.

I had a bad ignition switch on the Jackal which cut power to the bike running dead straight down the Blue Ridge Parkway, WHEN I hit a bump. The tap test confirmed it.
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