Author Topic: 1100 sporti gone rough  (Read 606 times)

Offline bigpants

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1100 sporti gone rough
« on: April 23, 2022, 10:24:38 AM »
Hi everyone. Well I just got my bike running pretty well last autumn . Now I've got it back out and it's running a bit shit. It's picking up off the throttle really poorly , especially at low revs , missing and stalling. Plugs are jet black with soot and there's fuel puddling in the throttle bodies. I've reset the tps and it makes no difference.  I just unplugged the tps and it was actually better. Also the tacho has packed up , it moves off the stop when I start the bike and is generally moving in the right direction but only reading about half revs or under , could there be a connection ?

Offline pressureangle

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2022, 10:40:46 AM »
My first instinct is to ask if you've done any maintenance that may have disconnected a plug somewhere; if the temperature sensors are disconnected, it may stay in 'cold start' mode all the time. If the tacho was reflecting what the ECU saw from the cam sensor, it wouldn't run at all.
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Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2022, 11:11:19 AM »
The off season job I've done is a por15 tank lining kit so yes some bits have been removed , I guess the oil temp sensor is the main one as regards cold start . I think there are values in the book for that , I'll see if I can rig something up. Just tried turning co˛ trimmer to max lean , idle was sweet but picking up throttle killed the engine. Also just measured voltage at the yellow/black wire at the tacho. I don't think I did it right as I know ac is a bit different to test but I got 6v and it dropped slightly as revs increased and bike spluttered.

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2022, 11:14:02 AM »
Both plugs are about the same?

If so, then I might suspect that the TPS is set out of whack or a bad connection. Or, the head temperature sensor is bad, or disconnected. Or maybe the air pressure sensor is out of whack (I think the 16M had a separate sensor). Or maybe the idle mixture screw is damaged.

I guess the fuel pressure could be way off. Were any changes made to the regulator?

Guzzi Diag would be your friend for sure.
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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2022, 11:14:02 AM »

Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2022, 11:45:55 AM »
The tps was my first thought as I am endlessly fiddling with it  but I've reset to base 150mv several times and I've got a multimeter connected to it and there are no signs of flat spots. The tank was off for the liner kit and this was done with the pressure regulator fitted but with a rubber disc trapped between reg and tank . I do have a spare regulator though. Just going to see if I can get the tank off and get access to oil temp sensor.

Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2022, 12:43:59 PM »
Just checked oil temp sensor. 1800 ohms at room temp. I'm not sure if the values in the manual relate to all the types of thermistor. If so my bike thinks it's about 35° outside instead of 16°

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2022, 09:24:26 AM »
Just checked oil temp sensor. 1800 ohms at room temp. I'm not sure if the values in the manual relate to all the types of thermistor. If so my bike thinks it's about 35° outside instead of 16°

Without looking, I though the sensor were pretty much all alike. As in, about 1000 ohms at room temperature.
I really can't imagine the thermistor 'drifting' in value. After all, at is basically a rock with wires attached to it. Obviously the wires, connectors or harness can go bad.
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Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2022, 04:42:42 AM »
I checked that air temp sensor and got the same values so I don't think there's a problem there.

Offline czakky82

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2022, 06:59:29 AM »
When I had my v11 there were times when setting the TPS that the carbon build up wouldn’t let the butterflies sit all the way.

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2022, 07:11:23 AM »
When I had my v11 there were times when setting the TPS that the carbon build up wouldn’t let the butterflies sit all the way.
what he said. How many miles on the motor?
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Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2022, 01:25:18 PM »
Probably 50k miles. I've been reading some of the archive and found an interesting thread about increasing the tps base voltage to lean off the mixture which sounds counterintuitive,  anyhow I tried it. I've gone from 150mv to 175 an did is alot better. The pudding in the throttle bodies was a rich golden yellow and smelt strongly of fuel , that has stopped. I've lost engine braking and it runs on a bit when you roll off. Last year I noticed free play in the pivot that the buttery turns on and whilst trying to set up the tps I notice that a base of 150mv fluctuates from 120 - 180 depending on how hard you shut the throttle and if you shut it hard the butterfly gets stuck. I do wonder if the bodies are just worn out?

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2022, 02:39:02 PM »
Yeah, the worn out part might be the butterfly pin seat. I don't know what it's called but the part that holds the swiveling pin below the body gets loose. ?
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Online lucky phil

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2022, 07:05:51 PM »
Probably 50k miles. I've been reading some of the archive and found an interesting thread about increasing the tps base voltage to lean off the mixture which sounds counterintuitive,  anyhow I tried it. I've gone from 150mv to 175 an did is alot better. The pudding in the throttle bodies was a rich golden yellow and smelt strongly of fuel , that has stopped. I've lost engine braking and it runs on a bit when you roll off. Last year I noticed free play in the pivot that the buttery turns on and whilst trying to set up the tps I notice that a base of 150mv fluctuates from 120 - 180 depending on how hard you shut the throttle and if you shut it hard the butterfly gets stuck. I do wonder if the bodies are just worn out?

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22077-throttle-body-rebuild/

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Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2022, 01:59:09 AM »
Thanks Phil,  I used your guide last year to do one side. I seem to remember the parts cost a fair bit here in the UK so I only did the rhs , maybe it's time to do the lhs.

Online lucky phil

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2022, 02:45:13 AM »
Thanks Phil,  I used your guide last year to do one side. I seem to remember the parts cost a fair bit here in the UK so I only did the rhs , maybe it's time to do the lhs.

The DU bushes were about $3 each from memory and the seal around $7 each I recall. I have 2 sets of Daytona and a se of V11 throttle bodies on the bench to do as I type this.

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Offline bigpants

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2022, 08:41:19 AM »
Wayne mentioned the fuel pressure regulator being off. I've started to suspect that myself but since I couldn't find a spare on ebay I put it to the back of my mind.  Well I just started her up for another look at the problem and I've got fuel squirting it's way out the ends of the fuel pipe that joins both injectors. This is making me think it could be over pressurised .

Offline Old Jock

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2022, 10:23:59 AM »
As I remember the pipe that runs between the injectors carries fuel from the left injector to the right

I'd first fix that leak then, as already said, check the butterflies are clean and closing properly

If you've got doubts about the regulator bang on the spare, or measure fuel pressure, as I recall it should be around 40-46 psi

After that a TPS reset followed by a TB balance

I wondered about fuel puddling in the TBs, would that not indicate possible ignition problems?

Check that you're getting a spark on both plugs, although that still doesn't completely rule out worn out plugs or leads, but it's a start.

After replacing HT leads on 2 of my bikes, I was amazed at the difference it made.

With the symptoms you've described though it is a bit of guessing game (to me anyway) at this point


Offline LowRyter

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2022, 01:53:45 PM »
My only ride on one of these bikes was very much like that.  The owner didn't know why it ran that way after spending lots on maintenance and parts. 

I mentioned that to one of our former gurus, Carl Allison.  He's written and done many things on those bikes and finally solved a similar problem. His fix was discovering a loose timing chain.

I'm the least mechanical person here but I was a real fan of these bikes and remember Carl's advice. 
John L 
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Online lucky phil

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Re: 1100 sporti gone rough
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2022, 05:50:48 PM »
As I remember the pipe that runs between the injectors carries fuel from the left injector to the right

I'd first fix that leak then, as already said, check the butterflies are clean and closing properly

If you've got doubts about the regulator bang on the spare, or measure fuel pressure, as I recall it should be around 40-46 psi

After that a TPS reset followed by a TB balance

I wondered about fuel puddling in the TBs, would that not indicate possible ignition problems?

Check that you're getting a spark on both plugs, although that still doesn't completely rule out worn out plugs or leads, but it's a start.

After replacing HT leads on 2 of my bikes, I was amazed at the difference it made.

With the symptoms you've described though it is a bit of guessing game (to me anyway) at this point

No, this is common on all Guzzi injected BB engines when cold. You notice it when you shut the engine down before it's fully warmed up and it has worn throttle shaft bushes/seals. With the intake manifolds and heads cold and the engine on the rich mapping some fuel puddling in there is common you just don't normally notice it unless you shut it down and it weeps out the shaft seals as I mentioned. Ducati's don't suffer because they don't have vertical throttle shafts. I still can't believe the Cali bikes mount the TPS below the r/h t/b where it's bound to get fuel contamination eventually.

Ciao 
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