Finally, the Harley Davidson death rattle.....

[Arizona Wayne]

.........http://www.motorcycledaily.com

[Lannis]

If Harley hired me as a Dogbert-style consultant and asked for my opinion as to the best way forward, I'd hardly know what to tell them.

They've made some silly decisions over the years, to be honest (coughcoughbuellcoug h, aCHOOMVAgustasniff), so they've already proved they're not infallible, but they certainly have made a lot of money for their employees and investors over the years so maybe they know the path forward.

Not electric motorcycles, me seh dat, mon ....

Lannis

[Groover]

It will be really confusing if they call one of their electric models Electra Glide...

[rodekyll]

What a complete waste of reading time!  It's an 'opinion' article based on the author stringing together a series of cherry-picked truisms and then "laughing out loud" at some mental picture he gets from it.  He wears the mindset of the generation he's criticizing, and while hand-wringing about the state of the big displacement cruisers, he ridicules the attempt to move past them.  It's a classic case of Harley bashing for its own sake.

There is only one government on the planet that still encourages fossil fuel consumption.  Any vehicle manufacturer that's NOT reacting to the death of petroleum is on a short course to failure.  HD, Honda, and others are at least diversifying into the market.  Many new companies are being built around the concept.  The real topic for this forum is:  MOTO GUZZI:  GO ELECTRIC OR GO HOME.  Does Piaggio have any plans to 'lectrify Moto Guzzi, or does the marque slide past obscurity into oblivion?

[JeffOlson]

I hope not. It would be a very sad day...

I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:

[JJ]

One thing is for certain, we will see more autonomous self-driving vehicles and more electric vehicles on our lifetime. 

What will happen to HD and Guzzi and the rest is speculation at this point, but I believe change is definitely coming...

This is an interesting website / perspective on a electric motorcycle that has been around now for >10 years:

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

[Gliderjohn]

Just got to thinking, could Moto Guzzi build an electric bike that still could have the V-twin configuration look? Thinking that the "jugs" could be battery packs with the electric motor where the current crankcase is. Could even be shaft drive. 
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

I hope not. It would be a very sad day...

It's odd though ... I do about 1/3 of my annual riding on BSA motorcycles.   BSA hasn't made a motorcycle in 46 years, but it doesn't slow me down at all, parts are still available, etc.

My newest Guzzi is 9 years old, and does a great job of getting me around.

As we've mentioned, there are literally MILLIONS of low mileage Harley Davidsons around the country.   If Harley went out of business tomorrow, and you and me and everyone on this board and everyone I know went and bought a Harley and started riding them 20,000 miles a year, we'd all be riding new-looking Harleys for the rest of our lives, and so will our sons and daughters.

Is it really so important that Harley continue to make and sell hundreds of thousands of the same kind of motorcycle they've been making for 65 years (tele-forked, foot-shift Panheads being a close relative of a FLHTCST ElectraRoadSoftDyna WideGlide Classic)?   

They've had an ell of a run, and all good things must come to an end eventually ....

When we can go 300 miles on a charge in our cars, and "recharge" in 10 minutes, Electric Vehicles will be practical vs. petrol in the USA, not before.   The technology will decide ....

Lannis

[Kev m]

I hope not. It would be a very sad day...

I have my eye on a new Road King, with wire wheels, white wall tires, hard bags that open and close easily and do not leak, a removable windscreen... Sort of like this one:

I totally get it.

[bad Chad]

I'm not a HD fan,  but that is a very attractive bike.

[tris]

Just got to thinking, could Moto Guzzi build an electric bike that still could have the V-twin configuration look? Thinking that the "jugs" could be battery packs with the electric motor where the current crankcase is. Could even be shaft drive. 
GliderJohn

I sincerely hope not

That's like putting a 2 Liter Turbo sticker on your ratty 1.1 Fiesta

[bad Chad]

I'm looking forward to owning an electric motorcycle.  Not sure I'll care much about the brand, but time will tell.   There is room in my garage for ICE and ELC  vehicles.

[JJ]

Agreed...that is one beautiful Road King!!





Here is the last Road King I owned, 2007 model. I miss that bike in many ways...   They are excellent bikes!

[oldbike54]

 Hmm , maybe the MoCo could reuse the model name Hummer for their E bike , Live Wire is really pretty lame 

 The name Plugindian has been trademarked 

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

For me I want a moto that I can load up about 60 lbs of gear and hit the road. It will have to be able to do 600/700 miles a day sometimes.(at 80+ if I'm in the mood.)

I like to venture into remote places and explore around.

The above is a requirement or I'll give  up riding .

I won't live to see an electric two wheeler that can come anywhere close to that.

No, we won't see that in our lifetime.  But a couple generations ago folks snickered at the idea of a 100 hp 1-liter engine in a street bike, too.  It's just a matter of time.

[JJ]

For me I want a moto that I can load up about 60 lbs of gear and hit the road. It will have to be able to do 600/700 miles a day sometimes.(at 80+ if I'm in the mood.)

I like to venture into remote places and explore around.

The above is a requirement or I'll give  up riding .

I won't live to see an electric two wheeler that can come anywhere close to that.

The ol' Road King will do all that...with no issues!!  Here are some of the last memorable photos from a ride through in  some in July 2010, with some NORCAL buddies.  Great trip, and for me, this is what motorcycling has always been about...

[Arizona Wayne]

Some of you guys missed the point of the article.  It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline.  It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs.  Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound.  Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image.  All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.

[Rough Edge racing]

Some of you guys missed the point of the article.  It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline.  It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs.  Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound.  Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image.  All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.

  I believe the aging riders have been discussed previously here and elsewhere ?  It was the end of Harley in the late 70's because of poor quality and the flood of big Asian bikes...It was the death of Harley around 1950 because of the lighter faster British bikes flooding into the country. Harley even filed an unfair trade deal and lost...Was it back around 1920 when Harley was figured to fold because of Indian ? 
  Will HD rise from the ashes one more time? I say yes..

[rodekyll]

Some of you guys missed the point of the article.  It has nothing to do with a shortage of gasoline.  It has all to do with the weight of Harleys, the age of their buyers/owners, the image of HDs and the sound of HDs.  Like many of us most HDs are too heavy as we age and no electric MC is going to have that potato, potato sound.  Neither are electric bike riders going to have that macho image.  All these things are essential for HD to prosper on.

What the article did was mock the old way of doing business while ridiculing the strategy to get past the inertia.

All industries and all businesses must evolve or die.  HD is no different.  Could you imagine using kerosene lamps in 2018 simply because electricity is silly?

[Arizona Wayne]

What the article did was mock the old way of doing business while ridiculing the strategy to get past the inertia.

All industries and all businesses must evolve or die.  HD is no different.  Could you imagine using kerosene lamps in 2018 simply because electricity is silly?

If Harley wasn't so set in their 1 image of burly leather clad riders on brute looking bikes with potato sounding sound that led to most customers & dealers ignoring Buell  bikes on their display floors too maybe HD could have widened their appeal to more riders.   But Nooo Buell got kicked out instead and here they are now.  They have thrived on 1 image and they are going to die on the same image.   While other major MC brands appeal to many different kinds of products to stay afloat.  You reap what you sow.

At least our local HD dealer doesn't sell just HDs.   They have Jap. bikes, quads, jet skis, etc.   But more HDs on display than anything else.

[Lannis]

If Harley wasn't so set in their 1 image of burly leather clad riders on brute looking bikes with potato sounding sound that led to most customers & dealers ignoring Buell  bikes on their display floors too maybe HD could have widened their appeal to more riders.   

Not sure if it was Harley who invented and pushed the image or if riders did it for them.   Back in the 50's and 60's, it was certainly "The Wild One" and bikesploitation B-movies and "Easyriders" magazine that associated Harleys with scarey leather-clad bad-asses that would kick your behind in a second just because they had a Harley.

But what happens when people decide that's "played"?   Harley can't sell bikes to them; what are they going to sell?

Lannis

[LowRyter]

I don't think there's any chance that Harley will go out of business.  But I am surprised that they took the same product and milked it's popularity as long as they did and continue to do.   But live by it and die by it.

They've never been able to successfully diversify their product line.   They probably could've done something with Buell but perhaps it should be been the Harley Sportsline or something. They've killed the VRod too, a line that could've been expanded into Sports Touring but it was put in cruiser and style mode.  That new little water cooled cruiser just doesn't seem have anything special about it.

Harley, a victim of it's success. 

[Lannis]

Maybe
Sorry I got interrupted...
I was going to say that I think that the only real way  electric machines are going to  be very practical would be with wireless power transfer.

You would have power towers like cell phone ones and they would transfer power to your vehicle like a cell phone, no wires no battery.

Then you just pay monthly fee and go. 

Mr. Tesla's (The one from Belgrade) idea..

:-)

Wireless power transmission of the type you're talking about is not an engineering problem like 3-second Top Fuel dragsters or 400 HP street bike engines or 10 terabyte postage-stamp data drives, it's a physics problem like traveling faster than light or transwarp transporter beams or time travel.    A bit harder to solve, and there's no way to tell who's lifetime it will be in.   Maybe the Morlocks will discover the principle that bypasses Rayleigh scattering and diffraction that allows it ....

Lannis

[nc43bsa]

At least our local HD dealer doesn't sell just HDs.   They have Jap. bikes, quads, jet skis, etc.   But more HDs on display than anything else.

Odd.

In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise.  I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.

I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.

[oldbike54]

Odd.

In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise.  I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.

I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.

 Not that unusual , a dealer in Bartlesville OK sold HD , and two Japanese brands .

 Dusty

[Lannis]

absolutely right!
But it would have to be solved for me to acquire an electric vehicle.

Maybe the guys driving the flying saucers will give us a heads up!

:-)

 

Funny how that now everyone on the planet is carrying one or more video cameras in their pockets all the time, the UFOs and the Yetis so prevalent in the past have sort of .... gone away.   

Maybe there's something about the emanations from camera phones that scares away Bigfoot and ET, and they just don't come around any more. 

Lannis

[Lannis]

One thing is for certain, we will see more autonomous self-driving vehicles and more electric vehicles on our lifetime. 

Don't know why it's "certain", any more than it was certain that personal jet-packs for commuting would be common, 80% of the cars in cities were replaced by Segways, flying cars would populate the nations flyways like on Coruscant, that we'd have Mars colonies by 2000, and that atomic-generated electricity would be too cheap to meter.

Every one of those things got started, every one prototyped, every one technically possible, every one was the Wave of the Future, every one was breathlessly hyped in the press.   And none of them are in the process of happening.

So just because autonomous cars and electric cars are prototyped, possible, started, touted and The Wave of the Future, and are all being breathlessly hyped, does not mean they are anything LIKE certain ...     

CHANGE is certain, but if we could predict what it was actually going to BE, we'd be getting ready to be the next technology billionaires.   

All right, which one of you is it?

Lannis

[Kev m]

Odd.

In all my years in motorcycling I've never seen a Harley-Davidson dealer (of NEW bikes) that also had new bikes of other manufacturers, Japanese or otherwise.  I always assumed they were prohibited by contract per H-D, but I never asked.

I have seen USED bikes in a Harley dealership that were not Harleys.

Yeah, like Dusty said, it's not the unusual.

Over the years I've seen a number. Sometimes they had separate buildings on same premises, sometimes split showrooms with separate areas but same building, other times they were down right intermingled in the open floor plan.

I got the impression it was more common before the HD boom of the 90's and early 00's before the crash.

I'm sure dealer and franchise laws vary enough from state to state that we can't draw any absolutes and I'm sure Harley used what influence the could to force or discourage multi-brand dealers over the years.

I personally know one old time PA dealer who went from having Kawasaki in the same showroom in the early 90's, to moving that to a separate dealer, to dropping that, to picking up Big Dog under the same Harley roof, to being forced to move Big Dog another location, then the crash, they picked up Triumph and sold them in both Harley locations, and eventually dropped them again.

[Lannis]

So where do you think that ball you dropped will stop?

:-)

I just presented the equation of motion ... someone else has got to solve the engineering problem!

Lannis

[ITSec]

Wireless power transmission of the type you're talking about is not an engineering problem like 3-second Top Fuel dragsters or 400 HP street bike engines or 10 terabyte postage-stamp data drives, it's a physics problem like traveling faster than light or transwarp transporter beams or time travel.    A bit harder to solve, and there's no way to tell who's lifetime it will be in.   Maybe the Morlocks will discover the principle that bypasses Rayleigh scattering and diffraction that allows it ....

Lannis

Actually, it's already well on the way to being solved - through induction loops embedded in the road. Like any other change to the fuel issue (LNG, propane, hydrogen fuel cell, etc) the real problem is changing the infrastructure.