Author Topic: Question regarding magnesium  (Read 1777 times)

Offline lucian

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Question regarding magnesium
« on: October 11, 2021, 05:28:05 PM »
I noticed today a sticker on a nail gun I was using stating it was made of magnesium.  Ok. I know lots of light weight cast things are , but what makes magnesium a better choice for certain things vs. aluminum ?  Seems a lot of similar castings are made from the two but what are the primary differences in the two?  And why is there so much overlap in similar uses between the two. The things you have time to think about while roofing.  :shocked:

Online Alfetta

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2021, 05:49:53 PM »
Mag is typically 1/2 the weight of aluminum, but it's also about half as strong. I the case of your nail gun, the material as most likely selected to keep the overall weight of the tool down.
Mag is a great material, providing that you keep it away from water, as it will corrode. this is why Mag wheels are painted, and if scratched, will need something on the scratch to re-seal..
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Offline lucian

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2021, 05:59:42 PM »
Interesting.  I worked on a golf course years ago and remember a lot of the mower decks and other equipment were made from magnesium. I would imagine for the weight benefits. I do not remember a lot of corrosion issues with many that had lost their paint years before I came along. Aluminum is also subject to corrosion no?

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2021, 06:29:21 PM »
I have a 30 year old Honda self propelled  mower with a magnesium deck. It’s definitely some fine material and very light.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 08:03:32 AM by Ncdan »

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2021, 06:29:21 PM »

Offline lucky phil

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2021, 06:32:06 PM »
Magnesium is also really easy to machine and cast .

 TS

Magnesium really easy to machine and cast! Have you ever seen a magnesium fire? Special care needed machining magnesium. I've set fire to magnesium machining swarf just to see how it burned first hand. Called "electron" back in the 50's when they used it for Matchless G50 crankcases etc.
Many modern engines use it for engine covers such as my Ducati 1198. My 8 valve race bike used to have a Magnesium alternator cover which incorporated the water pump housing but they corroded so badly their life span was too limited unless you were a factory team that could replace them regularly. My 1000 Supersport has been upgraded to Magnesium engine covers including the clutch and alternator covers shown here.



 
 
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« Last Edit: October 11, 2021, 06:41:59 PM by lucky phil »
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Offline nwguy

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2021, 06:36:09 PM »
I've burned magnesium strips in chemistry class in high school. Spectacular! As a former bicycle racer in the 80s we used to imagine Beryllium bicycle parts. Super light, but if exposed to water (race in the rain, crash in a puddle) the results would also be spectacular. Much more volatile than Magnesium.
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Offline lucian

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2021, 06:48:57 PM »
so , is magnesium only used in castings ? seems aluminum is available in billet and sheet and bar stock but i don't think I've ever seen magnesium in anything but cast.

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2021, 07:01:50 PM »
Magnesium valve adjustment covers must be worth something and on sale once so why not.



I would hazard a guess so called magnesium could be anything these days.

Offline lucky phil

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2021, 07:03:31 PM »
so , is magnesium only used in castings ? seems aluminum is available in billet and sheet and bar stock but i don't think I've ever seen magnesium in anything but cast.

Plenty of forged Magnesium wheels.

Ciao
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2021, 07:05:01 PM »
Magnesium valve adjustment covers must be worth something and on sale once so why not.



I would hazard a guess so called magnesium could be anything these days.

More accurately Magnesium Alloy these days.

Ciao
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Offline nc43bsa

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2021, 07:27:52 PM »
Magnesium really easy to machine and cast! Have you ever seen a magnesium fire? Special care needed machining magnesium. I've set fire to magnesium machining swarf just to see how it burned first hand. Called "electron" back in the 50's when they used it for Matchless G50 crankcases etc.

I was curious how it got the name "elektron," so I looked it up in the always infallible source "Wikipedia."

Turns out the British company Magnesium Elektron Limited patented various magnesium alloys in the 1930s, and several of them took the name "Elektron."
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Offline Matt Story

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2021, 07:29:20 PM »
Long ago I somehow ended up with a 4 wheel dolly that I later learned was from magnesium angle.  I wanted to re-purpose a piece of this angle for some reason, so I got out the Oxy-Acetylene torches.  I soon had a bunch of small burning cinders of magnesium on my driveway.  Very hard to put out.  I don't remember how I did.
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Online jrt

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2021, 08:05:11 PM »
When magnesium burns, it burns very, very hot (as some of you know).  It burns so hot that it emits quite a lot of UV radiation- so do not look at it as it will damage your eyes.
I imagine the easy of casting, but even moreso the lower cost of refining, is why it is used so widely. 

nwguy- beryllium is an interesting metal, very lightweight, but also very toxic. 
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Offline pehayes

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2021, 08:14:37 PM »

Offline John A

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2021, 09:33:11 PM »
If we could find one we would bring a scrap magnesium mower deck to throw on the bonfire at a keg party.  Always fun& exciting along with balloons filled with acetylene and oxygen . Kids…
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Offline Huzo

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2021, 11:28:20 PM »
The idea is to NOT set it on fire Phil .

 TS
And I think you would have been referring to Magnesium Alloys Dusty.
In which case you’d be right. Mg of itself is not particularly noteworthy, but like Mn (Manganese) and a plethora of other metals alloyed with Aluminium, it’s the selection of the correct grade of alloy that holds the key.

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2021, 12:11:35 AM »
My alfa came with Campagnolo Electron wheels. I've always what would happen if I had a blow out at speed.  :undecided:

Plus side they are stupidly light.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 12:41:29 AM »
My alfa came with Campagnolo Electron wheels. I've always what would happen if I had a blow out at speed.  :undecided:

Plus side they are stupidly light.

Not much. Campagnolo wheels got a bad rap when they got caught up in the Speedline wheels fiasco here is the 1980's. Campags were a totally fine wheel to use on our roads to which I can attest. I've run them on a Hailwood Mille and a Bimota DB1. I crashed the Hailwood head on into a car and the front wheel took the full impact of the crash and bent substantially but showed no signs of breakage or even obvious cracking. One side of the rim had been deflected about 25mm radially over a 75mm length, pretty much the same sort of result from hitting a massive pot hole. So much for them being brittle. Whatever Campag use it's not brittle and quite tough.

Ciao 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 12:16:01 AM by lucky phil »
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2021, 08:03:23 AM »
Back in the day, Nettie, an overweight girl that didn't move very fast, was grinding molding flash off some magnesium castings on a big pedestal grinder/belt sander.  :shocked:
Naturally, it caught fire. I've never seen her move so fast to get a bucket of water and throw it on it.  :shocked: :shocked:
It was good for a laugh.. but the grinder didn't survive.  :smiley:
I loved Nettie, she was a sweetheart..RIP, Nettie.
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Offline kirby1923

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2021, 08:45:40 AM »
Grinding mag? Scary.

The one thing that really is important on machining mag is you need SHARP tools, I won't relate how I know.

:-)
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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2021, 08:51:08 AM »
     When young , my brother and I came to find some one inch rods of magnesium about 2 foot long. We proceeded to light one end with the farm cutting torch. Brilliant white light that is extremely hard to extinguish. I would think this is what the flairs are made of.
     I've seem video of some new type batteries used in battery packs that burn in the same way. But that is another subject.
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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2021, 09:50:58 AM »
As a VW mechanic I dealt with a few engine burn-downs.  VW air-cooled engines had a magnesium case.  When a carb leaked and caught fire, it wouldn't stop until after the crankshaft fell out.

Back in the '80s I was restoring a '56 oval-window Beetle. It came with a later 40 hp engine, and I wanted an original 36 hp unit. Found one in the local salvage yard, but the car it was in was pretty crushed so removing it myself wasn't happening. The "yard monkey" came out with his cutting torch and cut away most of the rear bodywork for access and then started cutting the nuts off the ends of the engine mounting bolts. Not only was the engine case magnesium, but also the early (split case) transaxles. Even though I strongly recommended that he not use the torch to cut the nuts off, he ignored me and did anyway. I had to drag him out of there and back to the yard office, then the ambulance came and got him. I went back, removed the two remaining nuts (with wrenches) and dropped the (thankfully unharmed) engine onto a pile of tires. The transaxle was a melted mess of course.
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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2021, 11:50:20 AM »
Are the triple clamps on aCentauro aluminum? Not magnesium right? How would you cut the clamp, what tool ?
I'm repurposing one for an Art project.
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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2021, 11:52:55 AM »
When I worked on radial engines we would ocassionaly get an engine in with a magnesium nose peice. They usually looked pretty rough but were mostly reusable. We tried everything we could to save them as they were matched to the main engine case otherwise replacement of both with matched parts was necessary. Can you say expensive? A couple of thousand dollars. The boss always said that magnesium was trying to return to earth.
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Offline lucian

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2021, 06:42:37 PM »
Thanks for all the responses on this. As a life long woodworker, I have always been fascinated learning  about  the  subtle variations  in woods  properties that makes a specific wood appropriate for a specific use. The ultimate success of many wood projects is largely determined at the onset by choosing the right material for its intended purpose.  I find it fascinating that so many people out there have had the same experience, but with an entirely different medium. Weather it's metal or stone or wood or  liquids or whatever, it is  awesome to share and learn  information from across the different disciplines.
 This place is really awesome !

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2021, 07:02:05 PM »
She got it out with a bucket of water?  We were told to never use water on magnesium.  At the temperature it burns, it separates the oxygen from the hydrogen and uses the oxy to help itself burn.  If you can get enough water on it to knock the temperature down despite the now-oxygenized environment,  it will eventually extinguish the flame, but it takes a lot.

No, she made it *worse* with water..  :smiley:
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Offline bulwnkl

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2021, 08:27:13 PM »
But how to put it out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx5xMXNaS3g

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJCpsi5FrhE

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The procedure I was given was:
Push it overboard (not with your hands).
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2021, 12:12:29 AM »
Are the triple clamps on aCentauro aluminum? Not magnesium right? How would you cut the clamp, what tool ?
I'm repurposing one for an Art project.

Yep aluminium. I did once have a race bike with Magnesium Triple clamps and carburettors.

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 12:13:33 AM by lucky phil »
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Offline Huzo

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2021, 02:44:51 AM »
No, she made it *worse* with water..  :smiley:
It will actually burn under water.

Online larrys

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Re: Question regarding magnesium
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2021, 08:13:34 AM »
Once witnessed a magnesium fueled fire in the engine of an OV-10 Bronco airplane. The fire department buried the wing in wet-chem foam while the crew chiefs were frantically moving neighboring birds to other parts of the flightline. Hell of a fire...
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