Author Topic: Wearing Hi Viz  (Read 3135 times)

Offline lucian

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2022, 09:36:50 PM »
From a legal perspective would a motorcyclist surviving an accident have a better legal defense if he or she was wearing hi vis gear? I know this is subjective if it were to  go to a jury . But if you were on a jury in a motor cycle accident suit , would this be even  a consideration? I would like to think that doing  your due diligence to be visible as a small vehicle on the road would have some significance should the worse happen.

Offline Speciality

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2022, 04:46:43 AM »
Not sure, but I’d have thought that a car pulling out into the path of a motorcyclist who was not speeding or breaking the law in any way would be deemed to be at fault. The issue would be more likely to relate not to the guilty party in the case against the driver (probably driving without due care and attention here in the UK), but to contributory negligence of the rider in not mitigating the risk of injury and damage to his or her bike. Then we get into what are the legal requirements for a rider re protective clothing. No helmet: definitely contributory negligence because it is illegal not to wear one. There is no legal requirement to wear hi viz; at best it’s advisory. The law in the States may well be different - possibly between different states - here in the UK traffic laws other than local bye-laws apply throughout.

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2022, 08:51:51 AM »
When an accident investigation is being conducted by LE, issues like visibility of riding gear is never a deciding factor, no more than the color of a car is.
The question of whether the rider was wearing gear designed to be a higher visibility could come in effect in a civil action. However the investigation of LE is solely determined on the physical facts of why two vehicles collided and it would take several accident investigations manuals to go into that discussion.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 10:52:34 AM by Ncdan »

Offline blackcat

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2022, 12:06:01 PM »
"I always ride like I'm invisible"

Never noticed a difference while riding with a Hi Viz jacket but I'm sure it doesn't hurt. IMO the riding while invisible is the best defense.
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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2022, 12:06:01 PM »

Offline slowmover

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2022, 10:46:18 AM »
It definitely makes a difference. I wear a white helmet, standard ORANGE safety vest on a black bike. I’ve seen cars look once, start to creep out then look back again and lock their attention on to me. When working for a utility years ago I disagreed with the move away from orange to the lime green. There is some vegetation in the summer that is the exact same color so basically you are camouflaged. This is why hunters stick with the orange. If I forget that vest I turn right around and go get it.

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2022, 11:28:35 AM »
You're probably going to say it's not the same, but I have had people give me that same double look, while wearing a black helmet, and black jacket.

It's got to be a good idea from a be seen stand point to wear bright gear.  I just think it's benefits are often vastly over stated.
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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2022, 02:05:46 PM »
I think drivers to not notice or defer to you due to your level of visibility as much as your level of threat.
I saw a lady the other day on a bike and she was wearing an almost perfect copy of a police uniform. The word “Police” on her vest was replaced with “Polite” which had some other much smaller text with it to give context.
Obviously approaching the boundaries regarding impersonating an officer but I’ll tell you, the eye was drawn IMMEDIATELY to her presence.
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So did she.

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2022, 02:35:36 PM »
I think drivers to not notice or defer to you due to your level of visibility as much as your level of threat.
I saw a lady the other day on a bike and she was wearing an almost perfect copy of a police uniform. The word “Police” on her vest was replaced with “Polite” which had some other much smaller text with it to give context.
Obviously approaching the boundaries regarding impersonating an officer but I’ll tell you, the eye was drawn IMMEDIATELY to her presence.

So did she.

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Offline travelingbyguzzi

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2022, 03:17:07 PM »
Wear it if you can tolerate it. When my good buddy Gary Steele was a quarter mile behind me, his bright yellow jacket was more visible than his headlight. We rode thousands of miles like this and I always knew where Gary was.
I am currently wearing a yellow helmet.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2022, 07:16:15 AM »
Behavioral psychology may offer some perspective.  It’s difficult to be certain that riders wearing hi-viz do not behave in a different way because of their deliberate look-at-me wardrobe choices.  Many (most?) riders wearing non hi-viz gear never get hit by cars.  is that because of their behavior, the other drivers behavior, the chosen hi-viz/non hi-viz gear, ??.    Aside from the reflective gear worn after dark that is illuminated by headlights and makes persons more likely to be seen, regular hi-viz may or may not be part of a direct cause-effect relationship. 

Imho, if you ride like you’re going to get hit all the time, you’ll probably be more careful to help prevent it from happening.  So presenting yourself in a way that makes you be seen, no matter what you’re wearing, is the best overall strategy.   If hi-viz makes the rider more cognoscente of how he or she presents themself, that’s a good enough reason for wearing it.

I’ll even suggest that the most likely way to be noticed by the most drivers in daylight hours is to ride naked. Everybody will look, take pics, post it to the interweb and likely even make you a local celebrity that people try to notice when they’re driving.  Everybody here already owns their own naked free & clear, so it’s free- guzzi content…  But I hear eye bleach is pretty $$$ where you can find it.

We used to have to wear Hi-Viz to get on base, but then a study came out that said it made little difference so the guidance was rescinded. 
I know that Hi Viz gear works best when riding in overcast days than in bright sun.  Also works better on naked bikes than fully faired bikes. 
Extra lighting and erratic movements while on the bike tend to get more attention than just cruising along at a steady pace and lane position. 
Hi-Viz rain gear definitely improves being seen when visibility is already low.  More lighting helps as well in that situation.  I like SkeneDesign lights and have them on several of my bikes.  I haven't added any additional lights to the rear of the V85TT yet. 
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Offline Socalrob

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2022, 02:13:59 PM »
White Helmet for 20 years.

Yellow Hi-Viz for a dozen years.

I think it helps, but always remain vigilant and proactive.




upload a picture


Always solid white helmet here.  12% less fatal crashes for white helmeted riders.  Good enough for me.

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2022, 03:17:43 PM »
 HI ViZ Full face Helmet all the time and generally Hi Viz Armored Jacket and Always armored pants of some kind and ATGATT no matter...

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« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 03:23:27 PM by SemperVee »
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Offline kballowe

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2022, 09:32:16 AM »
As you can see, I just got new batteries in my t-shirt.  You know, because hi-viz needs to be HI-VIZ !




Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2022, 10:18:33 AM »
Always solid white helmet here.  12% less fatal crashes for white helmeted riders.  Good enough for me.

You have to love statistics!  Who concluded that the color white is why, versus the type of crash, type of rider, type of bike usually associated with white helmets?  LOL!
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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2022, 10:55:57 AM »
You have to love statistics!  Who concluded that the color white is why, versus the type of crash, type of rider, type of bike usually associated with white helmets?  LOL!

Im curious, where did that data point come from?
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Offline Sye

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2022, 01:25:50 PM »

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2022, 01:47:07 PM »
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2022, 01:51:07 PM »
https://motorcyclebrave.com/best-color-for-a-motorcycle-helmet/

Not a very impressive website.

And the article is full of arguable conclusions presented as assumptions or unsupported by the methodology or even direct citation of the study in question.

It may contain some truths but I'd be skeptical until better proven.

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2022, 02:04:18 PM »
Not a very impressive website.

And the article is full of arguable conclusions presented as assumptions or unsupported by the methodology or even direct citation of the study in question.

It may contain some truths but I'd be skeptical until better proven.
Yeah Kev, pretty lame and nebulous.
I reckon it’s about as convincing as…
“University studies suggest…”
Or
“Results from the Pond’s Institute….” (heaps of attractive female scientists with designer glasses and inappropriately unbuttoned white lab coats, glancing sporadically at clip boards..)
Statistics can be made to say anything, true or otherwise.

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2022, 09:10:25 PM »
The article did link directly to the study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387473/
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2022, 09:40:58 PM »
The article did link directly to the study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387473/

Cool thanks... But WTF was that link?!? Not in my browser.

I'm not thrilled with data from ~500 crashes and about ~1500 observed riders, from New Zealand, in the early 90's, where some 25% weren't using their headlight?!?

It seems largely inapplicable to modern USA, but I'm sure there are a few similarities.

The biggest elephant in the room is a lack of addressing the factors of what mindset of riders might choose a white helmet, or high viz gear, etc.

It also seems that about 50% of the study accident victims were under 25, and many of them teenager. Which really blows the sample for me. I mean what kids are riding around in high viz and white helmets. That kinda is the data fouler in my mind.

But don't get me wrong, I'm ok with the concept that "bright" is good. And headlight on is good. And not being seen is bad ... I mean this is DUH 101 but I'll accept this study suggests that's true.
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Offline Sye

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2022, 01:46:39 AM »
I'm amazed that anyone needs a study to confirm what is already obvious. Nobody is mandating that you HAVE to do these things, just that they are available to you. If you want to ride with your lights off dressed like Darth Vader in the dark, then fill your boots. Your body, your life, your choice.

Offline Socalrob

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2022, 04:46:46 AM »
You have to love statistics!  Who concluded that the color white is why, versus the type of crash, type of rider, type of bike usually associated with white helmets?  LOL!

Agree, only safety nerds wear white helmets, so there is that.

However, by personal observation, solid helmets do stand out better and white arguably stands out best, so I figure it can’t hurt.  Plus, not dying 12% sounds good.

That carbon Viii in your signature sounds like 100% instant death.  What is it, the color of asphalt?  You best get rid of it pronto.
 :thumb:

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2022, 08:25:48 AM »


I’ll even suggest that the most likely way to be noticed by the most drivers in daylight hours is to ride naked. Everybody will look, take pics, post it to the interweb and likely even make you a local celebrity that people try to notice when they’re driving.  Everybody here already owns their own naked free & clear, so it’s free- guzzi content…  But I hear eye bleach is pretty $$$ where you can find it.

This cracked me up, I was thinking about the movie MacGruber...  They have to break into the bad guys' compound...  MacGruber tells his team "I'll create a diversion"

He runs around the side of the building and when he pops back out, he's buck naked with a stalk of celery sticking out of his ass  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:  :boozing:



Needless to say, the diversion works and they they storm the compound (spoiler alert)
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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2022, 08:55:41 AM »
Agree, only safety nerds wear white helmets, so there is that.

However, by personal observation, solid helmets do stand out better and white arguably stands out best, so I figure it can’t hurt.  Plus, not dying 12% sounds good.

That carbon Viii in your signature sounds like 100% instant death.  What is it, the color of asphalt?  You best get rid of it pronto.
 :thumb:

!…??!?!  Didn’t realize the new-to-me, used-but-like-new Shoei that cost $20 at the thrift store makes me a safety nerd.  I thought it was just a great helmet for cheap $$ and thus Guzzi content.    No matter, I’ll add that to my list of “never been called that before” names.

My comments about habits and attire (or lack thereof) are somewhat sarcastic but also very serious.  Riders conscientious enough to make themselves be seen for the right safety reasons are likely to consistently behave much differently than those who simply ride without concern, thinking it’s the other party that needs to notice the rider.  The comments about riding paranoid, like you’re invisible, etc are what I’m talking about.  Hi viz can’t hurt. But I think it’s potentially as or even more dangerous to just wear hi viz and a white helmet, assume you’ve done your part and ride like it’s the other guys sole responsibility to honor your safety.

Our last few runs of bike rally shirts included hi viz yellow and orange.  They always sell out crazy fast.  We would have never imagined.

This cracked me up, I was thinking about the movie MacGruber...  They have to break into the bad guys' compound...  MacGruber tells his team "I'll create a diversion"

He runs around the side of the building and when he pops back out, he's buck naked with a stalk of celery sticking out of his ass  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:  :boozing:



Needless to say, the diversion works and they they storm the compound (spoiler alert)

Can’t say I’ve seen that movie.. or that I want to see it now..  or will ever look the same way at celery with peanut butter again……..  thank you, Mr Mayor.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 08:59:53 AM by cliffrod »
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Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2022, 11:43:44 AM »
On the idea of extra lights - how about headlight modulators? Anyone use one on their Guzzi? I’ve wondered about the constant varying current and whether it would stress our already less than robust voltage regulators.

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #86 on: November 21, 2022, 06:29:09 AM »
I used one for years on my Bassa, worked great,  no issues with bike, people did notice it for sure.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #87 on: November 21, 2022, 06:46:23 AM »
I'm amazed that anyone needs a study to confirm what is already obvious.

I couldn't possibly list all the times in life that what would have seemed obvious was proven wrong later....

(again, not that I don't think brighter colors may help, I'm just not convinced of some of the claims made by that "article").


On the idea of extra lights - how about headlight modulators? Anyone use one on their Guzzi? I’ve wondered about the constant varying current and whether it would stress our already less than robust voltage regulators.

I'm a tech and not an electrical engineer so maybe my little bro @jas67 can chime in but I don't think it works that way. I don't think pulsing a light is going to put "stress" on the voltage regulator.

That said, I personally don't care for modulators (front or rear). I think that either can, at a glance, send the wrong signal to a driver and the last thing you want to do is confuse the biggest idiot on the road. Plus I find them personally annoying but that's a totally separate issue, it's just that I find something like that annoying I'm not willing to subject others to it.
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2022, 06:47:24 AM »
This cracked me up, I was thinking about the movie MacGruber...  They have to break into the bad guys' compound...  MacGruber tells his team "I'll create a diversion"

He runs around the side of the building and when he pops back out, he's buck naked with a stalk of celery sticking out of his ass  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:  :boozing:


I'm sticking with putting a couple of cantaloupes inside my jacket.

to each their own!
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Wearing Hi Viz
« Reply #89 on: November 21, 2022, 06:51:32 AM »

That said, I personally don't care for modulators (front or rear). I think that either can, at a glance, send the wrong signal to a driver and the last thing you want to do is confuse the biggest idiot on the road. Plus I find them personally annoying but that's a totally separate issue, it's just that I find something like that annoying I'm not willing to subject others to it.

In some states, the headlight and tail light modulators are illegal and you bike will not pass inspection.

At least that was the case in VA quite a few years back.

I currently have one (installed by the previous owner) on one bike with a 3 position headlight switch.  High beam, low beam, and irritating flashing beam!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 06:52:03 AM by SIR REAL ED »
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