Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: samfrank on June 24, 2008, 10:38:49 AM
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Boy am I po'ed! Just got back from an eight day trip to Virginia where we did day rides every day. Great roads but too much gravel on the back roads. Anyway, I removed the center stand while I was there to prevent any scraping. Four days into the trip I notice the bike leaning more and more to the left with the side stand down. Upon further inspection I notice the whole side stand complex swinging loose...real loose. One of the connecting bolts was GONE and the other one was half way out. The one that was half way out couldn't come out any farther because the pipe was preventing it. I couldn't get to that bolt to tighten it because of the pipe and I was not prepared to remove the pipe. The Norge has about 2200 miles on it. What really infuriates me is on my trip last year to New Hampshire the exact same thing happened on my '06 Breva with about 9k miles!! Johnny Monace repaired that problem but it took him several hous. Where is the quality control? I would think these bikes come to the dealer with the side stand already attached but I could be wrong. Believe me I'm going to write a letter to MG-USA to see what they say. My friends, who were with me last year, said if this happened to you twice it's happening to others as well. Has any one else had this problem? I'm taking the Norge to Jason Speakers where, I bought the bike, this Friday. Comments? Suggestions?
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Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.
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I'm pretty sure there are two bolts that hold the side stand on. Otherwise, the whole assembly would have come off.
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#20, x2
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y114/toddhaven/stand.gif)
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bolt is 12x35
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Boy am I po'ed! Just got back from an eight day trip to Virginia where we did day rides every day. Great roads but too much gravel on the back roads. Anyway, I removed the center stand while I was there to prevent any scraping. Four days into the trip I notice the bike leaning more and more to the left with the side stand down. Upon further inspection I notice the whole side stand complex swinging loose...real loose. One of the connecting bolts was GONE and the other one was half way out. The one that was half way out couldn't come out any farther because the pipe was preventing it. I couldn't get to that bolt to tighten it because of the pipe and I was not prepared to remove the pipe. The Norge has about 2200 miles on it. What really infuriates me is on my trip last year to New Hampshire the exact same thing happened on my '06 Breva with about 9k miles!! Johnny Monace repaired that problem but it took him several hous. Where is the quality control? I would think these bikes come to the dealer with the side stand already attached but I could be wrong. Believe me I'm going to write a letter to MG-USA to see what they say. My friends, who were with me last year, said if this happened to you twice it's happening to others as well. Has any one else had this problem? I'm taking the Norge to Jason Speakers where, I bought the bike, this Friday. Comments? Suggestions?
The sidestand and centerstand coming loose is a known issue. Loc tite is your friend.
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There were several WG posts of this happening last year. On a trip last year one of the guys had the bolts securing the sidestand on his Breva come loose. We tie-wrapped the sidestand in place and he used the center stand the duration of the trip. May be a good argument to leave the centerstand on as backup. Loctite is needed on these bikes and a lot of others to keep certain things in place. Get the side stand and center stand bolts secured this way and problem solved. And maybe stow a spare bolt in your tool bag on the bike, along with duct tape, light bulbs, ...
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The sidestand and centerstand coming loose is a known issue. Loc tite is your friend.
Which made pretty uncomfortable reading last fall until I found out that, as Todd said, MPH had my back and was ahead of the problem.
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Yep, Common problem had it happen on the Norge mid way through a 1200 mile trip last fall. Reading WG I was aware that it was a problem so the first time the side stand felt a little different when deploying I started using the center stand and didn't use the side stand. Fixed it when I got home. Dropped the header and added a nord lock washer and blue loctite to the bolt.
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Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.
I guess that is why this has not been a problem on my Norge. Thanks.
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Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.
I guess that is why this has not been a problem on my Norge. Thanks.
Same here! ;D
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The same thing happened to me as well. I had about 4000 miles on mine. It was a good time to find out that there is no 8mm allen in the stock tool kit! Good thing my Harley friend had a set of SAE wenches on board and had a 5/16 ball end with him!!!
I have just ordered the Agostini pipes for my B1100 so loctiteing it up is high on my to-do list. This is not too cool.... I hope you do write to MG and if you want a signature to add to your letter let me know!
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Mike Bui had one come loose.
Davy now pulls the left pipe and loctites both bolts as part of PDI.
Easier than greasing rear wheel splines on Californias, which is part of our PDI as well.
I suggested that to the new dealer here recently, Todd. He seemed receptive, but we shall see.
Of course, tho they move 5 to 10 scooters out the door a day (the sales folks were giving pitches to groups! :o) they haven't sold any MG's yet. They have 2 reds and a black on the floor, plus a 1200S, a Griso, a B750, and a Nevada. Nada moved yet, tho my Norge is getting "Axoned" today along with a new tire.
My sidestand loosened again recently--even after loctite--so I moved up to "red." I figure the Norge's weight to say nothing of ... erm ... mine ... tests the metallurgical and torque limits of the fastener, so I'm not as bothered by it as I might be. ::)
I also knew before it did the "lean" thing, but I noticed when I checked the "witness paint" I put on it for that purpose. Can't remember who told me to do that, but it has saved my ssa quite literally a few times.
Bill
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I figure the Norge's weight to say nothing of ... erm ... mine ...
Bill
Billl,
While this site does not mention weight loss it is part of the program. ;)
http://yogaforbikers.co.uk/
t
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Nord Lock Washers
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/nord-lock-ab/self-locking-washer-20598-138527.html
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I have just ordered the Agostini pipes for my B1100 so loctiteing it up is high on my to-do list. This is not too cool.... I hope you do write to MG and if you want a signature to add to your letter let me know!
Loctite has a thread retaining fluid that will wick down the threads so there is no need to undo the bolt. I can't remember the number but it is very thin. You only need to get it to the thread join.
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DanR, thanks for the link on Nord washers. Never heard of them before. Now I know. Thanks again.
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I just went out and checked my sidestand. It seemed a little loose. It wasn't. There's just a whole lot of flex on the mount because it only has two bolts to secure it. This seems to be more than just a little under-designed if you want my opinion.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y114/toddhaven/stand.gif)
It would make sense to have a piece of metal welded on that extends forward from the front lower edge of the sidestand bracket (#11) to pick up the mounting bolt used for the left-hand lower fairing (not shown here - 'nother page in the parts manual). That would give it another mount point but more importantly, it would resist the outward torquing on the bracket where it is currently only secured towards the top. Probably most any engineer that designs something that needs to operate in this mode - such as the mass of a full sized motorcycle splaying out the stand and mount, would opt to go for a three-point mount.
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The parts book has this as:
Hex socket screw M12x35
Part 98231235
x 2
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I have just ordered the Agostini pipes for my B1100 so loctiteing it up is high on my to-do list. This is not too cool.... I hope you do write to MG and if you want a signature to add to your letter let me know!
Loctite has a thread retaining fluid that will wick down the threads so there is no need to undo the bolt. I can't remember the number but it is very thin. You only need to get it to the thread join.
Hello .. It is the green version....
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I just got my replacement allen bolt and bushing/sleeve for the right side of the center stand. I screwed in the alllen bolt by itself (without the centerstand) and it feels very sloppy. The fit is not very precise so I can see why they loosen. Each time you put it up on the center stand, it works to unscrew the bolt. I will use Loctite but check it regularly. Maybe a lockwasher too. But with the bushing/sleeve, that may not work. I may need to put another lock washer on the inside of the bushing/sleeve.
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Kev,
Got your e-mail.
Buried today,
bolt is 12 x 35 x 1.5
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This problem has already been remedied on the manufacturing line by adding two washers,
part No. 30217900, between the “side stand plate” and the above mentioned screws, and by
monitoring the tightening torque, which shall be of 80 Nm.
Here is the table with the frame number of the first vehicles where the problem has been
solved.
Model FRAME NUMBER
Breva V850 ZGULPB0076M111485
Breva V1100 ZGULP00046M114431
Norge 1200 ZGULPH0116M111722
You are thus kindly invited, upon pre-delivery or during routine maintenance operations, to
check for the presence of the two washers - part No. 30217900, and the correct tightening
torque ( 80 Nm) of the a.m. screws.
Sam's Norge vin is M113296
1,574 bikes after the first one that was fixed on the line so I never thought anything about it being a problem.
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This problem has already been remedied on the manufacturing line by adding two washers,
part No. 30217900, between the “side stand plate” and the above mentioned screws, and by
monitoring the tightening torque, which shall be of 80 Nm.
Here is the table with the frame number of the first vehicles where the problem has been
solved.
Model FRAME NUMBER
Breva V850 ZGULPB0076M111485
Breva V1100 ZGULP00046M114431
Norge 1200 ZGULPH0116M111722
You are thus kindly invited, upon pre-delivery or during routine maintenance operations, to
check for the presence of the two washers - part No. 30217900, and the correct tightening
torque ( 80 Nm) of the a.m. screws.
Sam's Norge vin is M113296
1,574 bikes after the first one that was fixed on the line so I never thought anything about it being a problem.
M112205. Okay, beat that one. Didn't get past having the wrong bearings in the Carc though.
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Kev,
Got your e-mail.
Buried today,
bolt is 12 x 35 x 1.5
No rush, I have a temporary fix.
Get back to me in a couple of days or a week when you're unburied and I'll order it, plus I dunno, something else I need - maybe a spare set of front brake pads for the Breva or something else.
Anyway, temporary fix was a 12 x 35 x (I could swear it was a 1.75 thread pitch not 1.5, but I could be wrong) bolt from Lowes.
The bolt threaded up fine, HOWEVER, because the inner-diameter of that hole in the bracket is so small (this is the bolt that sits in that recessed bore/tube) there was no way to drive the bolt using a socket or other tool.
So I grabbed the whizzer and cut a nice deep slot in the top for a large flat-head screwdriver, loctited it, and threaded it into place, VIOLA.
Could be a permanent fix, but JUST IN CASE it loosens up in the future or more importantly, I want to replace it before it corrodes in place and won't let me loosen it in the future, I think I'll order that spare and swap them out. Hell, I can just keep this one on board in case some other poor shmo looses a bolt at a rallye or on the road.
Kev
Kev
I have lost the same bolt you did, Do you have one on order if so from where ? I will add to the order so as to try and make it worth while for the shop.
Thanks
Dan
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Kev,
Got your e-mail.
Buried today,
bolt is 12 x 35 x 1.5
No rush, I have a temporary fix.
Get back to me in a couple of days or a week when you're unburied and I'll order it, plus I dunno, something else I need - maybe a spare set of front brake pads for the Breva or something else.
Anyway, temporary fix was a 12 x 35 x (I could swear it was a 1.75 thread pitch not 1.5, but I could be wrong) bolt from Lowes.
The bolt threaded up fine, HOWEVER, because the inner-diameter of that hole in the bracket is so small (this is the bolt that sits in that recessed bore/tube) there was no way to drive the bolt using a socket or other tool.
So I grabbed the whizzer and cut a nice deep slot in the top for a large flat-head screwdriver, loctited it, and threaded it into place, VIOLA.
Could be a permanent fix, but JUST IN CASE it loosens up in the future or more importantly, I want to replace it before it corrodes in place and won't let me loosen it in the future, I think I'll order that spare and swap them out. Hell, I can just keep this one on board in case some other poor shmo looses a bolt at a rallye or on the road.
Kev
For the life of me I cant find a 12x35x1.5 bolt even on a goggle search, but I can find a 12x35x1.75 as you had thought you put in. Todd, can you verify that 1.5 pitch again? Thanks
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I stand corrected. Get the 1.75 thread it in by hand, go ride.
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I stand corrected. Get the 1.75 thread it in by hand, go ride.
Thanks Todd
Found a source and have a pack ordered, will have extra,s
Ill keep 2 extra's and the rest can be had for the mere pittance of request and no postage.
Assuming I receive the bolts and there are usable.
http://www.pointe-products.com/Items.asp?query=yes&Search=33-13193&x=34&y=15
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I stand corrected. Get the 1.75 thread it in by hand, go ride.
Thanks Todd
Found a source and have a pack ordered, will have extra,s
Ill keep 2 extra's and the rest can be had for the mere pittance of request and no postage.
Assuming I receive the bolts and there are usable.
http://www.pointe-products.com/Items.asp?query=yes&Search=33-13193&x=34&y=15
I received the bolts in the mail and they look like I could have ordered them from Guzzi, Exact same bolt including the finish color. They appear to be of the same grade.
My above offer stands.
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I just got back from a two week trip and I wanted to check in on this topic. During my trip I think I lost the side stand bold that is recessed in to the large hole. I was able to secure the upper bolt with a ball headed hex wrench I could slide in over the header. I wonder if anyone has managed to replaced the lower without removing the header and the related plastic. It doesn't look possible, but I thought I'd check to see if anyone had any tricks up their sleeve. Thanks.
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I just got back from a two week trip and I wanted to check in on this topic. During my trip I think I lost the side stand bold that is recessed in to the large hole. I was able to secure the upper bolt with a ball headed hex wrench I could slide in over the header. I wonder if anyone has managed to replaced the lower without removing the header and the related plastic. It doesn't look possible, but I thought I'd check to see if anyone had any tricks up their sleeve. Thanks.
There was some one who cut down an allen wrench and was able to insert one end in the bolt and use an open end wrench around the allen wrench stub to tighten it up. The lower bolt will not come out completely without removing the header, which is what I did because I wanted to coat the bolt with some loctite and install a wave lock washer. Removing the header is not a big deal. Just have a spare header gasket handy.
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LOCTITE -
+1
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Thanks. I'll get at it soon.
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For my 2007 Norge -- I used an m12-1.75x40 hex cap with a lock washer & locktite blue. The extra length was not a problem (wonder if I could have gone to a 45?) and I'm hoping the extra 5 will give me more grip. With it all buttoned up (headpipe, etc), it is possible to fit an end wrench in there for emergency tightening, should it be necessary (but I'm unlikely to carry a 19mm end wrench; would hope to borrow or buy one in an emergency).
I was never able to find the fabled second bolt --- there is a bolt into the rubber thingie, which is very flexible. There's also a bolt deep inside the indentation between the two bolts; never did figure out its purpose.
Did tighten to 90nm (just under 60 ft/pounds).
Hope this helps somebody ....
-BobSchenot
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The same problem for me; bought a used Norge with 7800 miles; at 10,000, the same bolt is gone and the side stand is floppy. Do you have any info on the replacement bolt part #? I'll modify an Allen wrench to get the short bolt tight again. Good candidate for Locktite.
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And Guzzi puts Loktite on the alternator covers of the new V7s! ??? ??? ::)
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I rolled in to the national rally last year with bungee cords holding up one side of my centerstand on my Breva 1100. I've had the side stand bolts come loose also. In fact, I plan on removing my exhaust tonight and putting red Loctite on my side stand bolts.
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Loctite has a thread retaining fluid that will wick down the threads so there is no need to undo the bolt. I can't remember the number but it is very thin. You only need to get it to the thread join.
#290 green stuff not very strong though in comparison, as long as it is apart the red stuff is the way to go
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I took the exhaust loose tonight on my Breva 1100. Booth bolts on the side stand were loose. In the past, I had loosened the top bolt as much as I could and I dripped blue Loctite down around the bolt and tightened it up. I had also used blue Loctite on the bottom bolt. This time, I coated both bolts with red Loctite. Hopefully, that will get me to Canada and back next week without my side stand falling off.
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Hi, same thing happened last w-e with my 2011 Norge side stand with 21000km ( about 12000 miles) on the clock. I going to the dealer this afternoon to get it fixed. I dont want to mess with it cause I need my bike ready for the MG Rally in Ontario next week. >:(
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Lost one of the center stand bolts on a ride when my '09 Norge had about 2,000 miles on it. Found a replacement bolt at the local ACE store; blue locktited it down. After reading this thread, I kept an eye on the side stand. Now, after 36K miles, the side stand bolts are still snug. However, once winter approaches here, I'll pull the exhaust system and secure the side stand bolts.
Jon
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The same thing happend to Me . At a gas pump in Woodland wash. abouy 180 miles from home . I put the side stand down
om my 2007 Breva 1100 and it leaned over so far it scared Me . I rode all the way home without stopping , didn't want it to
have it fall on its side .
Called the dealer (MI) who ordered replacement bolts and a side stand , which took several weeks to arrive . Although the
bike was still under warranty Moto Guzzi didn't take responsabillity for their screwup . I guess it was My fault for using the
side stand . The next 10,000 miles or so that I owned it , no side stand probs. That tells Me its Gweedo was not doing his job!!!
So don't fell like the Lone Ranger.
Dan
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What the hell is it with Guzzi and side stands, one of the most basic necessities on any motorcycle. Heck read the postings of Breva 750 owners like myself about having the sides stand deploy at will and shut off the engine due to the safety interlock. I rode from Redding CA back to San Francisco 250 miles or so perfecting the art of kicking the dam thing back into place every 2-3 minutes. I know bungee cord, etc, but if this silly basic component can't be engineered to just f*ing work across many different models of our beloved brand, no wonder loving a Guzzi is tough love. Oh yeah think I got it fixed with new spring, loctite and regular lube.
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Mine did the same thing about a year into owning it. I did recover the one bolt that fell out, and the dealer made it well after dropping the exhaust for access.
One thing I've learned after two years with my Norge: don't sweat loose fasteners and oil leaks. They just do that. My mechanic points out that they don't use Locktite and if they use lockwashers at all they aren't very well designed. I've also had the nuts holding the headers to the heads come loose (clue: the John Deere sound) and bought a 24" socket extension to tighten them up periodically.
The other thing to get used to is waiting for parts. My Norge has been laid up for about four weeks now waiting for parts.
If it makes you feel better, by all means write to MGNA. If you expect them to care, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Actually, if you think they're going to do something about an event that occurred six years ago, even better.
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Side stand on my 2011 was really loose. Removed the header, applied red to both of the bolts, and tightened them down. The stand now hits the bottom of the foot peg. Any thoughts?
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I had to use my centre stand for a couple days which was a bitch. Got it fixed in West Virginia. Cost me 2 hours labour but i was happy to get it done at a metric place. Good people. Tri County Honda in Petersburg. I had checked it before i left to boot. 2012 norge 40km
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Side stand on my 2011 was really loose. Removed the header, applied red to both of the bolts, and tightened them down. The stand now hits the bottom of the foot peg. Any thoughts?
Not a good use of red loctite ?
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Side stand on my 2011 was really loose. Removed the header, applied red to both of the bolts, and tightened them down. The stand now hits the bottom of the foot peg. Any thoughts?
Stock footpegs or aftermarket, lowered, footpegs?
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I'm going to revive this rather than start a new thread about the same topic.
My '07 Norge (M112506) has this issue as well. I've have the Nord-Lock washers installed but the bolts still back out. Fortunately, they seem to stay in place just about as long as the oil change intervals. Still annoying.
So, any new thoughts? Nord-Lock, blue Loctite, 80Nm of torque are what I'm currently using.
Thanks,
jdg
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A very common occurance. I had lost the 12mm bolt on the 1200S and the other was still captured by the headpipe. Probably more difficult on a Norge with it's tupperware, but the 1200S has the easiest to remove headpipe ever. Maybe because it is still fairly new and not some crysted up 30 yr old p.o.s.
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Somewhere, some time ago, I read on a Guzzi forum or Guzzi section on a forum(I'm guessing) that the exhaust heat may break down Locktite and that Liquid Gasket 1198 should be used for the sidestand or centerstand bolts. I put a note in my phone to get some but of course I keep forgetting. I wish I could remember where I read that tip.