Sticky Clutch on 74 Eldo

[JC85]

Last season, the clutch on my 74 Eldo started sticking. It would fail to properly disengage, so that when I was coming to a stop, the bike would die when the rpms totally dropped off, unless I revved the engine to break it loose. I tried a quick and dirty cleaning of the plates by tying the lever down, removing the starter, and spraying the hell out of them with a can of carb cleaner. That and taking it on a long run along the back highways around here seemed to fix the problem, and it was fine for the rest of the season. Today, however, it came back with a vengeance, even worse than before. Dave Richardson talks about this being a common problem in Guzziology, but he says it was typical of 80s big twins, not 70s models, and he offers no insight into what causes it or a remedy. Any ideas?

Fyi, these plates have less than 6000 miles on them.

[pete roper]

Notched clutch hub and possibly flywheel splines. Common enough, especially if the idle speed is set too low, carb balance is out and the owner sits idling with the clutch engaged.

Time for a new clutch, hub and possibly flywheel.

Pete

[JC85]

Notched clutch hub and possibly flywheel splines. Common enough, especially if the idle speed is set too low, carb balance is out and the owner sits idling with the clutch engaged.

Time for a new clutch, hub and possibly flywheel.

Pete

Any idea why the problem  would have gone away for 3 months of riding and then come back, if that's the case?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If transmission oil leaks into the clutch area (usually from lack of effective clutch pushrod seal), it can mix with clutch dust creating a gummy residue and causing the clutch to not release. Your carb cleaner "fix" likely soften or washed some of the gummy muck away and allowed the clutch to work again. What you can try is (leaving the starter in place) plugging the weep hole at the bottom of the bellhousing, removing the rubber timing hole plug on the right and pouring in approx. a pint of mineral spirits. Start the engine and pull the clutch lever a few times. Remove the weep hole plug and drain the mineral spirits. repeat until what comes out is clean. This too will likely only be a temporary "fix" and isn't one that I can really recommend.

Do you know what clutch plates were installed 6k miles ago? If they were Sureflex (one spline fits none) or Barnett (stamped crap) then the plates could have worn deep grooves into the hub in that few of miles.

The way to fix this proper is to remove the transmission, clean everything, replace the plates and hub with best quality parts, and replace any seal and o-ring that might cause the trans. to leak oil onto the new plates.

[Tom]

+1 with Charlie.  The mineral spirits is only temporary.  Clutch job is the correct fix.

[JC85]

If transmission oil leaks into the clutch area (usually from lack of effective clutch pushrod seal), it can mix with clutch dust creating a gummy residue and causing the clutch to not release. Your carb cleaner "fix" likely soften or washed some of the gummy muck away and allowed the clutch to work again.

This is what I was thinking. I really don't want to have to take the engine and transmission to the work bench right at the beginning of the riding season, as I'm not well equipped for that, so I'll try your trick with the mineral spirits for now. Hopefully it will get by until I strip the bike down, next winter, and I can replace the clutch, then.

I don't know what plates were installed last, unfortunately. They were installed almost 20 years ago, and then the bike mostly sat in storage, until I got it, 3 years ago.

[JC85]

What you can try is (leaving the starter in place) plugging the weep hole at the bottom of the bellhousing, removing the rubber timing hole plug on the right and pouring in approx. a pint of mineral spirits. Start the engine and pull the clutch lever a few times. Remove the weep hole plug and drain the mineral spirits. repeat until what comes out is clean.

After talking to my dad, he reminded me that we had looked for that timing hole plug, when the problem first started, last season, and could not locate it (his memory isn't good enough to point straight to it,) which is why I went in through the starter port. Can anyone give me a reference for where it's located?

[cliffrod]

Years ago, I dealt with similar problems on my V7 Sport- sticking clutch and increasing problems with maintaining a workable adjustment.  Square toothed input hub was badly worn and could not be made better. Being young and broke, I tried....  As it deteriorated, clutch became impossible to reliably adjust and ever more dangerous to ride- like suddenly ending up with no clutch in traffic. Not cool

I finally bit the bullet, got all new parts including upgrade to later style V-splined input hub & matching plate.  Not sure if that's still a preferred fix, but it worked well for me and still does.   It isn't a difficult fix- I did it in the girlfriend's garage when she was out of town with very nominal hand tools, nothing special.  It's a better alternative than stuffing your bike, you, someone's bumper or all three. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

After talking to my dad, he reminded me that we had looked for that timing hole plug, when the problem first started, last season, and could not locate it (his memory isn't good enough to point straight to it,) which is why I went in through the starter port. Can anyone give me a reference for where it's located?

You can see the timing hole with the black rubber plug, in this photo:



By '74, all five speeds should have one since the same case was used on the V7 Sport as well.

[JC85]

By '74, all five speeds should have one since the same case was used on the V7 Sport as well.

Interesting. This is the original transmission for the bike, but it doesn't have the timing hole. I guess it'll be another round of two cans of carb cleaner through the starter port.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Interesting. This is the original transmission for the bike, but it doesn't have the timing hole. I guess it'll be another round of two cans of carb cleaner through the starter port.

That is strange. Of the three Eldorado five speeds I have here, only one lacks the timing hole and it came from a '72. The two '74 transmissions both have it.

I'd still use mineral spirits instead of carb cleaner. Pour it in, reinstall starter, run, drain, repeat.

[JC85]

That is strange. Of the three Eldorado five speeds I have here, only one lacks the timing hole and it came from a '72. The two '74 transmissions both have it.

I'd still use mineral spirits instead of carb cleaner. Pour it in, reinstall starter, run, drain, repeat.

I'll take your advice on that. There are seversl things that are atypical about this Eldo, so this is just one more thing. The decals are also different from normal. No Moto Guzzi logo or eagle on the tank, just the pinstriping, and the eagle, instead of 850 on the toolbox. There are a few other things, as well. I've been told that it's not that uncommon for parts, fasteners, and decals to be atypical on these, because  back then, they would often use parts from other years or change things up, if they temporarily ran out of something during assembly.

[randy yocum]

I bought a 1971 Ambassador from the original owner in 1999.It originally came with a 4 speed transmission.early on in it's life he upgraded it to the new 5 speed transmission that was used on the Eldorado's.I owned the bike for several years, it too was missing the inspection hole on the bell housing.I've owned many Guzzi's over 24 years and I had never seen that before or since till now with yours.

[n3303j]

What is that lump the blue arrow is pointing at?

[JC85]

Just a part of the housing shape. I'm not sure what the purpose is. My guess would have been clearance for something, except that in the pic that Antietam posted of the later transmission, that spot is indented, instead of pushed out.




instants by jorge luis borges

[JC85]

I'm about to perform the temporary fix, but I can't figure out a good way to plug that tiny weep hole. Any suggestions out there?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Whittle a dowel to a taper if it's a round hole or a popsicle stick if it's rectangular.

[Tom]

Foil   Use a wad and shape it..

[JC85]

Whittle a dowel to a taper if it's a round hole or a popsicle stick if it's rectangular.

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the clutch is totally stuck, at this point. I can't get the plates to separate at all, so there's no way for the mineral spirits to spirits to get in between them and clean everything. Looks like it'll be a clutch job, after all. Most likely won't get it done in time for CV.