Author Topic: oil additive question ZDDP (Read 3894 times)

bad Chad · « **on:** July 24, 2019, 01:43:20 PM »

I bought a bottle of Rislone oil supplement with Zinc treatment to add to Fuchs Silkolene motor oil I'm going to use on the next change. The bottle says for motorcycle engines to use . The bottle of Rislone says it's a 3x concentrate and that it's 11oz works the same as non-concentrate 32oz. I have no problem no far, what I'm wondering about it the ratio to oil they recommend.

For motorcycle engines it says use 2oz per quart of oil. That seems like a lot of additive to oil to me, what do you think?

Lannis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2019, 02:04:56 PM »

Quote from: bad Chad on July 24, 2019, 01:43:20 PM

I bought a bottle of Rislone oil supplement with Zinc treatment to add to Fuchs Silkolene motor oil I'm going to use on the next change. The bottle says for motorcycle engines to use . The bottle of Rislone says it's a 3x concentrate and that it's 11oz works the same as non-concentrate 32oz. I have no problem no far, what I'm wondering about it the ratio to oil they recommend.

For motorcycle engines it says use 2oz per quart of oil. That seems like a lot of additive to oil to me, what do you think?

When the bottle says "for motorcycle engines" do they mean motorcycle engines that share the engine oil with the clutch and transmission, or do they mean engines where the clutch is dry, and the engine and transmission do not share oil? I'd want to know that first.

Lannis

bad Chad · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2019, 02:11:24 PM »

I don’t think that would actually matter in this case as the zddp is an anti wear agent that was common in Moto oil up through “SG” newer oil has far less zinc, apparently because it beats the he’ll out of catalytic converters.

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2019, 02:20:40 PM »

Why buy a somewhat expensive oil and pour in a supplement that may upset the additive package in that oil? Why not just buy one of the many oils containing enough ZDDP?
How much ZDDP is enough for your engine? 1200 PPM ? More? less?

Wildguzzi.com · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2019, 02:20:40 PM »

bigbikerrick · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2019, 02:56:44 PM »

Ahhh, an oil thread! I agree with Rough Edge Racing, just get a good quality oil with enough ZDDP. I recommend one of the shell rotella oils.
Rick.

Muzz · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2019, 03:58:58 PM »

Down here on the backside of the planet where the bath water goes anti-clockwise

we are a bit fortunate to have Penrite oil, an Aussie company that make a lot of oils for specialty vehicles. They make a 10/60 with full zinc loading. I may be wrong but I thought their loading figures were 1800ppm.

bad Chad · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2019, 04:49:17 PM »

It may be fine, but I figured why risk it.

As far as I’m aware no current oil available in NA contains the anti wear zinc compound that is best for 1200 and older motors.

Calling Chuck, come bail me out here!

n3303j · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2019, 06:16:58 PM »

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent zinc and .12 percent phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil, which contains .14 percent zinc and .13 percent phosphorus.

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2019, 06:46:21 PM »

Mobil 1 V Twin is a Jaso rated bike oil , .16 ppm zddp...

kingoffleece · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2019, 09:20:10 PM »

Didn't I read somewhere that our roller motors have less need for the additive that flat tappets? Not none-but less.
Someone help me here-thanks.

mechanicsavant · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2019, 08:15:33 AM »

Hemmings motor news has a few good articles on zddp & other additives that make certain motors happy.
In a nutshell their opinion is any “racing”branded oil has adequate zink & other goodys to keep vintage & modern high performance engines happy .

rocker59 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2019, 08:28:48 AM »

Quote from: bad Chad on July 24, 2019, 04:49:17 PM

It may be fine, but I figured why risk it.

As far as I’m aware no current oil available in NA contains the anti wear zinc compound that is best for 1200 and older motors.

Calling Chuck, come bail me out here!

This comes up over and over and over...

Mobil-1 has several oils in the 1700-1800 ppm range. Mobil-1 V-twin 20W-50 being the one recommended for our motorcycles.

Second choice would be the "regular" Mobil-1 grey cap 15W-50 at 1300 ppm.

Here's a link that contains a chart. Scroll down: https://mobiloil.com/en/article/motorsports/where-to-buy/racing-oil

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2019, 08:33:28 AM »

Quote from: kingoffleece on July 24, 2019, 09:20:10 PM

Didn't I read somewhere that our roller motors have less need for the additive that flat tappets? Not none-but less.
Someone help me here-thanks.

Yes, a roller tappet engine is happy on the lowered ZDDP levels , at least for car engines... ZDDP is a package of zinc and phosporus. High ZDDP oil have a total additive package differeng from low ZDDP oils...That's why adding a supplement may or may nor be benificial in the long run.
Bob is the oil guy is the website for people who like oil stories.. There are hundreds of oil anaylsis exaples there from testing labs so you can see what is in oil....Without actual facts it's all speculation
Here's an example of oil I had tested earlier this year...Vigin meaning unused straight from the container...Maxima Pro Plus 20/50 full synthetic

RinkRat II · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2019, 09:22:38 AM »

I'm curious RER, what the api rating was on your test oil , SM, SL, SG??

Paul B

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2019, 09:37:50 AM »

Quote from: RinkRat II on July 25, 2019, 09:22:38 AM

I'm curious RER, what the api rating was on your test oil , SM, SL, SG??

Paul B

On the container, SL, SH. SG, MA, Jaso....

elvisboy77 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2019, 12:58:43 PM »

What did the owner's manual recommend? Why not stay with that?

Brand X · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2019, 01:13:17 PM »

Oil companies spend a lot of time/money engineering oils to perform like they do. Of course Joe blow in his garage knows more then them in the area of oil engineering..

You will not improve top tier oil, and probably would not do much for the bottom rung stuff either..

Lannis · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2019, 02:38:23 PM »

Quote from: Brand X on July 25, 2019, 01:13:17 PM

Oil companies spend a lot of time/money engineering oils to perform like they do. Of course Joe blow in his garage knows more then them in the area of oil engineering..

You will not improve top tier oil, and probably would not do much for the bottom rung stuff either..

Yes, but then what would be the point, and the fun, and the sociability, and the challenge of an Oil Thread?

What fun is it to just go with the manufacturer's recommendation? You know that they're in league with Big Oil and with the white-shoe law firms, making sure that big profits and low risks are shared at YOUR expense; the owner's manual is a thin tissue of lies and deceit meant to empty your pockets into theirs, and has nothing to do with engine design, lubrication tests, and metallurgy.

MUCH better to join one of the grassroots Oil Revolution cells on-line. This way you can have the real inner knowledge of what oil is best, be part of one of the elite cabals that is working to stick it to The Man, and be able to give the secret Silkolene Handshake, or the Amsoil Wink, or the Mobil nudge-nudge when you meet a fellow non-conformist and revolutionary.

No, there's everything to be said for an Oil Thread. They keep life interesting, and in some cases might even add dozens of useful miles to the life of your engine over 20 years or so .....

Lannis

Bulldog9 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2019, 07:34:49 PM »

So what oil should I use?

ILM Rosso · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2019, 05:45:29 AM »

Brad Penn 20W50 Racing Oil in direct answer to your question.

Top shelf!

Mark

pete roper · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2019, 06:13:07 AM »

Yak fat! Always has been the best! Always will!

Bill E. · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2019, 08:13:33 AM »

Chad, I just pulled up the MSDS sheet for Silkolene 10 w 60 pro Xp. It shows 1-1.25 % ZDTP. I'm guessing thats an equivalent to ZDDP? I think thats 1000 to 1250 ppm.

Anybody know what the two valve CARC bikes require?

Bill E. · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2019, 08:46:05 AM »

Correction: 1.0 to 2.5%ZDTP. Is 1000 ppm enough?

bad Chad · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2019, 09:18:06 AM »

I don’t know, it’s considerably less than some of the others. I think I may use 1 oz instead of 2 per Liter of oil.

RinkRat II · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2019, 10:40:39 AM »

To do this properly You should take three quarts of your oil and put nothing in the first, 1oz in the second and 2oz in the third. Send them all to the lab and have them determine what's in them like Rough Edge did. Then you'll know definitively. My$.02

Paul B

jcctx · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2019, 11:37:50 AM »

If you want to add ZDDP to the oil, STP is loaded with it!!

Diploman · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2019, 12:51:42 PM »

:thumb:Valvolene VR1

Muzz · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2019, 05:22:54 PM »

Quote from: pete roper on July 26, 2019, 06:13:07 AM

Yak fat! Always has been the best! Always will!

Tibetan, Chinese or Lower Slobovian?

They all have different viscosity and ZDDP ratings.

bodine99 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 28, 2019, 10:37:45 AM »

Would it not be easier to use Valvoline VR-1 Syn. or Dino oil. O-Reilly's around here all carry it

John Croucher · « **Reply #29 on:** July 28, 2019, 12:36:53 PM »

Apollo Oil Company near my house brings in rail tankers full of oil daily. Filling various color bottles with various brand and motor vehicle manufacture's labels from the rail tankers.

News:

Author Topic: oil additive question ZDDP (Read 3894 times)

Rough Edge racing

Wildguzzi.com

Rough Edge racing

Rough Edge racing

Rough Edge racing

elvisboy77

pete roper