An oil question for "hydro" owners

[bigbikerrick]

Hello folks, a few days ago, I ran into a gent from California touring Arizona on a beautiful ,maroon, 04 EVT. I was on my Lemans, and we got to chatting, and the discussion got to the hydro recalls, etc. This guy bought the bike new in San Diego, and took it back to the dealer for the cam recall at about 5K miles.He told me when the recall was done it was running fine,and no damage had taken place. He currently has over 60K miles logged, and told me that for the last 30K miles he has used mostly  Mobile 1  15w50, because he said the bike never sounded "right" with 5w-40 oil, and he mostly rides in very hot places such as death valley, and the southwest. He has also used the 20-50 V Twin Mobile 1 at a couple of oil changes with nonoticeable difference, according to him.
 This got me to thinking....Hmmm, when Guzzi specified the 5w-40 is when the failures first started, and they really didnt have it all figgured out yet as to the cause, but I have never heard of a failure blamed on the owner using the wrong oil, or a different viscosity.
  My Question here is have any of you other guys with hydros tried different viscosity oils, and what was your experience? I am tempted to try something with a little more viscosity in mine, but thought I would check the opinions of the group first.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks
Rick.

[yellowheader]

I've had an '04 Stone for exactly 3 years now, have put about 32000 km/20,000 miles on it since I bought it. The first two oil changes I used garden variety, non-synthetic 10W40 automotive oil. It worked fine as far as I could tell. This year all those oil threads got to me and I switched to synthetic 10W60, which may or may not be a suitable weight, depending on where you read. Since going synthetic, the engine might run a little smoother, but it has developed an oil leak from the bell housing. I'm still trying to figure out if the leak is from the blowback hose (per Pete Roper's wisdom) or the rear engine seal. I've read that synthetics will seep past old seals where Dino oil migh not. I'm about due for another oil change, so I might just go back to dino oil to see if the leak stops.

[bigbikerrick]

I seriously doubt your oil leak was caused by the switch to synthetic. Take a close look at that S shaped fat hose from the breather in the frame to the top of the bellhousing . That hose if original is 15 years old and engine heat will cause it to crack, somewhere above the clamp, and it can leak down into the bellhousing from on top, and come out the weep hole on the bottom .
  Mine did that once where the hose clamp was only loose, allowing oil to work its way down the outside of the pipe.
I hope it helps in your case,
Rick.

[pete roper]

Problem is the Hydros don't have that hose. From that model on the breather was relocated to the timing chest so that eradicated that leak point in the bell housing! Sounds like it probably is the rear seal.

The reason the hydros have a 5w40 specified is to get the flow to the lifters quickly so they'll pump up fast. I reckon in reality it won't make a lot of difference, especially in a hot climate. I'm pretty sure my mate Peter uses the same Penrite 10/60 in his Hydro as he does in his Griso and Stelvio and his bike purrs like a kitten. It's worked hard too as it's lugging a heavy outfit in tropical far North Queensland.

When I get my turd running again I'll probably start it up on 5/40 and run it for a couple of hours before draining and swapping to 10/60 after which I hope to never have to worry about it ever again!

Pete

[Tom H]

From what I understand. Guzzi wanted an oil that would flow very quickly to the hydraulic lifters. So 5w40 was their choice.

I have never cared for that light of oil. I don't like having only about +/- 5#'s of pressure at idle after a long freeway ride.

Because of the lifter issue, I didn't want to go too high. I did try the Castrol syn. that was rated for M (?) class cars. 10w60. $15 USD a Qt.. Bike didn't seem any better for it. Went back to Rotella 5w40.

I have always wanted to try Mobil 1 20w50, but was concerned about the 20 being too high. I think Valvoline makes a 15w40 VR1. I might try that one time and see how the bike sounds. But again, what oil do the lifters need??????

Pete, ever so humbly saying. Early Hydros had the breather in the bell housing and used the S hose. My '04 has the breather just in front of the RH cyl.

Tom

[John Croucher]

I seriously doubt your oil leak was caused by the switch to synthetic. Take a close look at that S shaped fat hose from the breather in the frame to the top of the bellhousing . That hose if original is 15 years old and engine heat will cause it to crack, somewhere above the clamp, and it can leak down into the bellhousing from on top, and come out the weep hole on the bottom .
  Mine did that once where the hose clamp was only loose, allowing oil to work its way down the outside of the pipe.
I hope it helps in your case,
Rick.

I put sealant around the fitting that protrudes out of the bell housing to prevent oil from leaking around it and into the bell housing from the end of the hose.  Did this when I had the engine out for clutch replacement.  Figured it couldn't hurt anything and only help keep other contaminants out.

[John Croucher]

Problem is the Hydros don't have that hose. From that model on the breather was relocated to the timing chest so that eradicated that leak point in the bell housing! Sounds like it probably is the rear seal.

The reason the hydros have a 5w40 specified is to get the flow to the lifters quickly so they'll pump up fast. I reckon in reality it won't make a lot of difference, especially in a hot climate. I'm pretty sure my mate Peter uses the same Penrite 10/60 in his Hydro as he does in his Griso and Stelvio and his bike purrs like a kitten. It's worked hard too as it's lugging a heavy outfit in tropical far North Queensland.

When I get my turd running again I'll probably start it up on 5/40 and run it for a couple of hours before draining and swapping to 10/60 after which I hope to never have to worry about it ever again!

Pete

Both hydro's I have, still have the bell housing return fitting that attaches inside to the crankcase.  Nothing in the time chest cover.  First I have heard of a return line in the timing chest. 

[John Croucher]

Running synthetic now.  Got a case of Repsol cheap and used it.  Can't tell any difference.

It is my opinion and I have mentioned it in other hydro post, the rockers are not getting adequate oil flow and causing premature rocker arm and valve stem wear.  This is not noticeable because the hydraulic lifters are compensating for the wear.  With the 4 additional oil passages feeding the lifters, oil is leaking past the clearance in these moving parts and reducing the flow to the rocker arms that should be flowing down the top of the rocker arm and onto the valve stem ends.  Causing the premature wear. 

I have rebuilt 3 hydro motors and they all had worn valve stems and rocker arms. All less than 20,000 miles.  Why the rebuilds?  1 is my engine that I have done some mods, 2 had blown head gaskets after the recall was done.  Head bolts were lose when I disassembled.  All had crappy cam chain tensioner's that allow the cam to flop.  All had about 20% of the slug trap filled with debris. 

Overall, a Guzzi V Twin is a very durable and forgiving engine in my opinion. They will keep running with some very lose tolerances thru out the engine.   

[bigbikerrick]

I put sealant around the fitting that protrudes out of the bell housing to prevent oil from leaking around it and into the bell housing from the end of the hose.  Did this when I had the engine out for clutch replacement.  Figured it couldn't hurt anything and only help keep other contaminants out.

Thats not a bad  idea, John, There is a small bit of space between the metal tube,and the alloy bellhousing.
Rick

[pete roper]

Both hydro's I have, still have the bell housing return fitting that attaches inside to the crankcase.  Nothing in the time chest cover.  First I have heard of a return line in the timing chest.

Sorry, I stand corrected. I thought they all went to the timing chest vent. My apologies.

Pete

[Dilliw]

I've run the 5w40 since I've had her (60k miles).  I don't know if there's something out there that is better or not, but the Rotella T6 is reasonably priced and available at any Wally World.  I have seen a hydro with a toasted top end, but so far mine is still purring.  YMMV.
 

[Mr Revhead]

Mines been on 5w-40 since new, 78ks so I don't think I'll change. But yes, depending on the temps you ride the difference between a 5w or 10w probably won't matter.

As for the leak, look in side the bell housing peep hole, see oil? Rear main. Don't see oil? My bet is on it leaking around the rear bearing carrier gasket like mine. Probably caused by following the dipstick oil level and not the manual specs...

[geoff in almonte]

There is well over 200k km on my old '04 EVT.  I ran 5W50 full synthetic Castrol.  Fresh oil every 10K - fresh filter once per season.

Current owner is doing the same.  The bike just keeps on truckin'.

G

[yellowheader]

Problem is the Hydros don't have that hose. From that model on the breather was relocated to the timing chest so that eradicated that leak point in the bell housing! Sounds like it probably is the rear seal.

Pete

Thank you Mr. Roper! I thought I was missing something because I couldn't find that hose.

As for the leak, look in side the bell housing peep hole, see oil? Rear main. Don't see oil? My bet is on it leaking around the rear bearing carrier gasket like mine. Probably caused by following the dipstick oil level and not the manual specs...

Mr. Revhead, thanks for the tip about the leak.

Rick, although 10W oils have worked fine for me - even in my cool climate - the suggestion that 5W40 gets up to the lifters better seems logical. I think thats what Ill try next. There,  I'll stop hijacking your thread now. 

[dguzzi]

I've been using the Rotella 5-40 as Dilliw suggests, I have also used Valvoline 5-40 Syn-Power.

[Wayne Orwig]

Both hydro's I have, still have the bell housing return fitting that attaches inside to the crankcase.  Nothing in the time chest cover.  First I have heard of a return line in the timing chest.

I've seen both ways. My 2004 is in the cam cover. I have seen 2003s with the old style. Probably used whatever parts they had in that time frame.

It is the vent line, right? The return lines are still to the heads.

Either way, it still blows oil if you fill above about half full and run it hard, so the new vent location didn't help that much if any.

[pete roper]

Bellagios use the same forward location for the breather and tend to pump oil out as well. My guess is that the change was made to remove a potentially hard to get at leak point in the bell housing. (Shrug?)