Personal reactions to emergencies

[Gliderjohn]

I started riding regularly on the street in 1979. I started flying in 1985. No brag here just personal observation, but I have found that I react to the "unexpected" in a calculating working through it way without any panic feelings to speak of. Not to say that I may not have a WTF self moment and retrospect knee knocking afterward.
My pilot training drilled into me to always keep trying to work through whatever the problem is and not to give up. So...how much is innate and how much is training? How much is luck or guardian angels? Is the above similar for those of us that have survived many years and miles on motorcycles and other adventures in life? Just having curious thoughts this evening.
GliderJohn

[John A]

Never give up! When things go bad they can go to,real bad in a hurry.  Keep your head in the game is what I try to practice 

[Huzo]

I see what you mean GJ.
I sometimes am accused of being overly pedantic when pointing out ambiguity in explanations. I have worked on being able to explain concepts within my own level of expertise, (such that it is), so the person I’m dealing with can have the best chance of grasping the thrust of what I’m telling him.
Here’s an example from a different sphere.
On a freeway near my home is a sign points to the left that says “Narre Warren Only”
I said to Old Mate “that’s ambiguous”
He said “How so”
My reply
“Does it mean this road only goes to Narre Warren”
Or
“If you want to go to Narre Warren, only this road will get you there”
A seemingly trifling point to argue, but indicitave of the desire to detect ambiguity.
I’m sure that pilot training fosters this desire for succinctness and Gliding Instructors need to try to adopt the principle.
You’re right..

[Ryan]

I read something years ago about Freddie Spencer. He said he was constantly thinking through what ifs, practicing, and learning. He said each practiced routine was like a packet hanging on a wall in his brain, and when he faced something on a track or on a ride, his brain would just select the right packet and execute the prescribed actions. Prepare well, practice, and hang a lot of packets and you can get yourself out of a lot of oh, shit moments.

[BRG-BIRD]

I read a book about how to be clutch in sports business or whatever. Essentially it explains that in panic situations when you have no time to think your brain goes with what it knows whether it is right or wrong. Practice for muscle and brain memory

[Siamese]

I've been in three absolute life or death situations.  And I mean CLOSE calls.  When the chips are down, and I realize that in the next ten to thirty seconds I'm going to either be dead or alive, and the odds are maybe 50/50, I hunker down, stay calm, and do the best I can to preserve my own life.  Nothing is to be gained by panicking.   

That said, I'm a lot happier not rehashing these instances at a later time (shudder).

Just one of the three situations was on a motorcycle.
 
Certainly no James Bond, though.  I wear a full coverage helmet, riding jacket and pants with armor, and when I approach any intersection where there's a possibility of some moron pulling in front of me (several per ride), I'm on serious edge. 

So, I suppose I'm as big a chicken as you'll find, but in an extreme situation, I somehow cope. 

[dee g]

I started riding regularly on the street in 1979. I started flying in 1985. No brag here just personal observation, but I have found that I react to the "unexpected" in a calculating working through it way without any panic feelings to speak of. Not to say that I may not have a WTF self moment and retrospect knee knocking afterward.
My pilot training drilled into me to always keep trying to work through whatever the problem is and not to give up. So...how much is innate and how much is training? How much is luck or guardian angels? Is the above similar for those of us that have survived many years and miles on motorcycles and other adventures in life? Just having curious thoughts this evening.
GliderJohn

I am pretty damned sure my pilot training (started in 1991, Multi-Comm-IFR) has saved my ass a few times. I was taught to be 30 seconds ahead of where I currently was.  Always have a back up plan, and a back up to the back up.  Always think about 'what-if', and what I might do if the what if happens.  Always check the weather. And if its going to be a long x/c, check the weather for several days before to get an idea of what's been happening and what I might expect enroute. Head on a swivel. Situational awareness.  Prefight. <-- That has caught several things that could have been bad news 20 miles down the road. 

When I was flying, after prefight and before engine start, I would sit in the cockpit, couple of deeps breaths, think about what my mission was, make sure my charts were in place, approach plates in place, alternate airport plates in place. etc etc.  I still do that. But its tailored to fit the bike.   It annoys the spouse to no end, some times, but that minute or so helps me get into motorcycle mode.

The 'head on a swivel' and 30 seconds ahead has kept me from hitting several deer, 2 elks and momma bear and her 2 cubs and has kept me out of the path of lots of debris and errant vehicles. 

Or maybe its all just luck??? Because sometimes, you get that weird goose bumpy, hair raising on the back of your neck feeling and you slow down, and Oh, a cop! a dead deer in the middle of the lane on a blind curve! traffic stopped all of a sudden!....etc.
 lol

[normzone]

My pilot training drilled into me to always keep trying to work through whatever the problem is and not to give up.

A pilot I know says their flight instructor told them " Fly the plane until there is dirt in your mouth ".

[kingoffleece]

As a former SCUBA instructor trainer, enriched gas instructor (NITROX), and cold deep zero vis instructor, we were drilled day after day on panic and how to control it. Some of the best lessons of my life to date.

[jas67]

+1 on pilot training being a big help with dealing with emergencies.   I also feel my pilot training has helped me handle emergencies w/o panicing over the years.

IMHO, one of the best examples of good pilot training and remaining calm in an emergency, is SW1380 pilot Tammie Jo Shultz's handling of the engine explosion that caused a sudden decompression, killing one passenger.     She is a former Navy pilot, which I'm sure helped a LOT.   Listen to the audio of the ATC exchanges with her.   She is calm and steady as a rock.    RESPECT!

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovZCaqZlLmU[/ur]

[pete roper]

I just poop myself and scream a lot. I'm still alive!

[tazio]

And yet how many of us roll out down the driveway with no idea exactly
what our tire pressures are setting at...

[Rough Edge racing]

 On a street bike you may have less than a few seconds in an emergency..The car that suddenly makes the turn directly in front you you...Brake or go left or go right...A situation that injures or kills many bikers because it's unique to bike riding and difficult to practice for it.
   My last panic riding sisuation was a few years ago and happened on a Guzzi. I had just a few hours riding experience on the bike....Riding the "cafe" Cali 2 pacing a friend  on a narrow road.. He went into a sharp blind right hand turn, about 50 MPH...I was running faster than him into the turn and my bike ran wide..Either because the Guzzi required more rider input than I expected or I was stupid, I did not increase the lean angle and instead applied the front brake.. The bike stood up so to speak and ran even, wider almost off the outside of the curve....I never crashed and the memory of that is a good lesson...
 

[s1120]

the "what-ifs" I guess really have both helped and hurt my life..  the heightened anxiety can be a pain is social situations, but does help dealing in a panic because you have already written out that mental flowchart in your brain. Im ALWAYS 5 steps ahead...  That's really the best because you head off most issues before they happen.  The ones that just happen...  a millisecond of anger/panic flips the switch, and I normally do pretty well.

[Ncdan]

Weather one is talking about riding a motorcycle, driving a car or any other activity there is one thing for sure that I can attest to from working the mean streets for 30 years. When there is NO TIME TO THINK a human has only two options, 1- training will kick in and take the proper action or 2- panic will take over and that can end badly.

[Lannis]

IMHO, one of the best examples of good pilot training and remaining calm in an emergency, is SW1380 pilot Tammie Jo Shultz's handling ......   She is a former Nazy pilot, which I'm sure helped a LOT. 
 

Not only calm and cool, but in her 90s at least!    Most of them didn't survive the war .... !   

Be that as it may, a good example of how a pilot should act in that situation, for sure ....   

Lannis

[Lannis]

And yet how many of us roll out down the driveway with no idea exactly
what our tire pressures are setting at...

That used to be me.   Not any more.   One of my bikes tells me what the tire pressure is, and the others are all parked within reaching distance of the pressure gauge and air hose .....

Lannis

[Beowulf]

I been through a firefighter academy of a major city. It's an interesting place.  During your training they teach you to deal with your panic or walk due to not be able to handle it.

Several things that occur are dealing with tight spaces, heights(100 for ladder climb) not being able to breathe, getting stuck and having to work out of it.

When you dealing with medical emergencies you must remain calm. This is really hard to do with kids, you are no good if you panic. There is a lot more that goes with this training than mentioned but the overall thing you learn is be calm, don't give up, think through the problem stay oriented and if possible prevent the mishap.

This goes hand in hand for me and riding a motorcyle.

[wirespokes]

I  think you'll find that most of us here behave similarly in panic situations. Most of us are older and there's no way we could have survived this long doing the dangerous things we have by freaking out. It's true, training and practice helps, but an important aspect is the individual's emotional 'orientation'. Some people are normally fearful, others are basically angry or bored, and those emotional levels aren't particularly conducive to handling emergencies well. They  probably wouldn't put themselves into a dangerous situation anyway. The higher the emotional level, the quicker the reaction time and the better they're able to confront the situation at hand. Being able and willing to confront the possible outcomes of a situation can require will power, and predicting consequences isn't a strong point either for those lower emotional levels either - it also requires taking a certain level of responsibility as well. When the chips are down, if you don't keep trying, only luck will carry you through. I wouldn't want to have to depend on that alone!

[Lannis]

I  think you'll find that most of us here behave similarly in panic situations. Most of us are older and there's no way we could have survived this long doing the dangerous things we have by freaking out. It's true, training and practice helps, but an important aspect is the individual's emotional 'orientation'.

I've never been through any aviation, military, or first-responder training, but as you say, many of us are getting old enough to have seen a lot of situations and have an idea of how we would do in a crisis.    Over the years, I've been the "first in" to two car wrecks, and I was happy, in retrospect, with how I responded.   

Get the ones involved out of immediate fatal danger (such as a fire or arterial bleeding), but don't touch or move them otherwise until a trained EMT gets there.   If there are other folks around trying to help, direct their activities if you're more capable of doing that than they are; as has been mentioned, like directing traffic or expediting professional help.    If a victim is conscious and hurting, stay with them, hold their hand, talk to them, let them know that help is on the way.   And when the experts get there, step back and get out of the way.

An optional step in this day and time might be to smack the camera out of the hand of some ghoul who is filming it all instead of helping ...

Lannis

[John A]

Think of it like this : you are on the edge of disaster , what happens next is up to you.

[tazio]

And yet how many of us roll out down the driveway with no idea exactly
what our tire pressures are setting at...

That used to be me.   Not any more.   One of my bikes tells me what the tire pressure is, and the others are all parked within reaching distance of the pressure gauge and air hose .....

Lannis

👍 Same here.
And just knowing pressure isn't enough. Rode last night w/ a friend that keeps his front and rear at 50psi because his wife is on the back of bike most times
 

[DougG]

This emergency had nothing to do with us, we had no chance to help and I do not want to start a gruesome recollection of terrible events on this thread but....

My wife, I, and my two children (ages 9 & 14) were out on Moriches Bay, NY in our boat on July, 17, 1996 at dusk.  We saw Flight 800 explode in the air and rain down onto the sea, several seconds later, we heard the muffled explosion.  We radioed to the Coast Guard Station (we were no more that 1/2 mile from it at the time) and were the first call of record.  We had no idea what it was...fireworks?  After a brief conversation with the CG and a lot of chatter on the radio, we realized that something very bad had happened...it was a quiet boat ride home.  All I can remember is that it felt like a punch in the throat at the time.  The FBI showed up at our house two days later to ask questions and gave us the final news...230 souls.  It was a very quiet evening at our house by then we were just numb.  We rarely talk about it and it still feels surreal. 

I've seen two fatal car accidents happen right in front of me and (believe it or not), one person shot to death, no more than 20 feet away.  In those incidents, I felt a huge adrenaline rush and attempted to help.  That night on the bay, there was nothing but helplessness and sadness.  It was not the same when one is so far removed from the event, even though we saw it in real time. 

Be well,
DougG

[Darren Williams]

Most "real" MC riders are mechanically inclined and think in engineering term. By "real" I mean longer term and regular. They also are the ones who do a certain amount of their own maintenance and checking. There are a lot of other activities that are similar, such as flying.

Having observed and studied human tendencies for a while now, I would say the folks described above will generally think more in system and process terms than people who are not active or interested in these types activities. I think that is why so many here bang on millennials, since so many are not mechanical by nature.

If your tendency is to work through problems and you think in terms of analyzing iterations, odds are that you will react that way in unexpected situations. Also, how deep your talent stacks are will give you more options to consider, which can lead to better decisions and see possibilities others would never consider.

Of course, as we get older our reaction speeds slow down. That can cause us to stay on the throttle through a small patch of unseen sand in a corner like a pro.   

[jas67]

Not only calm and cool, but in her 90s at least!    Most of them didn't survive the war .... !   

Be that as it may, a good example of how a pilot should act in that situation, for sure ....   

Lannis

Smart a**!    Typo.   

NAVY polit.

[twowheeladdict]

My opinion from observing others in situations is 100 percent training and repetition. 

Whenever I meet some adult who shows an interest in riding I mention taking the MSF course before even considering buying a motorcycle.  I also suggest they dust off the bicycle and get in a few weeks of riding before taking the class. 

[SmithSwede]

That’s a fascinating question John.  Great thread idea.

Speaking for myself, and I am not trying to brag or sound tough.  Just honestly explaining.  I learned early on that I simply don’t react the way most people do in these situations.

Time seems to slow way down for me.  I’m conscious I need to make decisions.  But the pervading feeling is more like “wow, this is an interesting experience,” as opposed to “OMG I’m going to die.”  No feeling of fear, or concern about pain.

Well afterwards I may get shaky and consciously reflect on how bad the deal may have turned out.  But at the time it’s almost a feeling of bemusement.  I don’t freeze up, but instead think and excute on a plan. 

For example, I low sided a Yamaha RD350 in a sharp right curve in Atlanta when I was 16.  I slid across the two lanes of traffic in the oncoming lane.   Easily could have been run over.  Even today, 40 years later, I can distinctly remember the thought/feeling of “Gee, I’ve never seen oncoming cars from this perspective; hope they don’t hit me, well, doesn’t look like they will, I think I must have grounded the right footpeg, need to look at that later.”

I’ve had many such experiences.   For a long time I felt kinda guilty about it, was concerned that I was an abnormal freak, or had a “death wish.”  I have not had any military, EMS, or flight training.  I’ve  decided that some people are just wired that way. 

My youngest daughter, however, is the exact opposite.  At even the faintest beginnings of a potentially perilous situation, she completely freaks out, freezes up, and can’t even speak coherently for several minutes.   

And one thing I can’t stand is heights.   Gives me the willies.   Can’t even watch stuff on movies of people dealing with heights.

Go figure. 

[Lannis]

NAVY polit.

Navy politicians are no better than any other politicians ... This gal must have you all shook up!!   

Lannis

[Huzo]

all shook up!!   

Lannis

Ah ha ha,
Ah hey hey.
Yeah...Yeah... Yeah...
(Elvis has left the building...)

[redrider90]

I was learning self hypnosis from a therapist. She had undergone 2 surgeries without any anesthesia and she had the video to prove it. One surgery was a brief 20 minute hernia and the other was a 90 minute gynecological surgery that was surely quite delicate and painful.
She teaches how too go into a trance. She holds herself there, aware of her surroundings yet in a trance. I asked her what would she do if there was an acute emergency type of problem, like a bleeding issue or even heart problems. Her response was the same; she would remain in the trance. She said if she got upset and came out of the trance it would only make everything worse.