Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mmcwhitehead on August 09, 2021, 07:28:29 PM
-
A friend recently bought a new '21 V7 Special 850. Its his first bike ever. He's coming up on 300 miles, it's new and so is he.
He tells me that it pulses for the first few miles when he leaves work at the end of the day. It doesn't do it in the mornings. He called the dealer. They suggest that, if it sits outside in the sun (it does), he should open the gas cap to vent off any buildup of pressure in the tank just before he leaves work.
He plans to try that tomorrow.
I'm wondering if this is a common occurrence with V7 850's. This one is built to the Euro-5 standard, so I guess it's possible.
-
I have read that the 21 Euro 5 V85 will do that. It tends to not be as much with the cruise control set. Sorry but I forget what the fix has been. Check the thread on ADV rider...close to the last few pages I believe.
https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/unread (https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/unread)
-
I did not know the V7iii were still available in 2021. At any rate, a canisterectomy will cure any vapor lock issues
-
Yeah, I was wrong on the model designation. Guess I'm a bit behind the times. It is a V7 Special 850.
-
The one I rode at Blackman's certainly didn't do that, but it was well warmed up, and for all I know had been vented well.
That said, if it goes away I'd guess it's a warm-up issue or venting and not really worry about it.
Though I'm curious if he's vented it by opening the cap and tested yet?
FWIW I have a 2013 MK I Stone that sometime surges BADLY at start up, but it goes away in a minute or two once warmed.
Ironically the 2018 MK III Dark doesn't do it at all. Go figure.
I've come to the conclusion it's mapping related on the MK I, but not worth a change as it's so relatively minor (as long as I'm not in a rush to leave when I cold start it).
-
Well, he tried venting the tank by momentarily opening the cap before leaving work yesterday- no difference.
-
Any chance he gave his bike a heavy washing with a hose, and maybe got moisture into the oxygen sensor?
-
Personally, I'm impressed that MG is managing to cope with the Euro 5 regulations while still using an air cooled engine (cudos). I'm would not be surprised by an odd starting issue, or weird idle condition, or momentary surging etc... with the TAXES getting levied onto these machines it is inevitable. If you consider the multitude of variations in the mechanical devices sensors controllers etc.. that all must be compensated by the software programmers understanding of what's going on, and combine that with global fuels, environments, riding conditions and style, I think its kind of amazing...
"quoting unknow author
Complicated Shite, will have complicated issues..."
-
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.
-
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.
Ever the rebel I kept mine, but I checked first. I parked in the sun, and cold started my bike (with a hose pincher installed on the EVAP purge line). No difference, it still stumbled. So I kept it. Why?
Cause when I listened to people on this website and took the EVAP system off my Jackal, my garage forever smelled of gasoline.
-
.........my garage forever smelled of gasoline.
No better smell for a gear head's garage, except perhaps his "essence of Bondo" cologne...
-
No better smell for a gear head's garage, except perhaps his "essence of Bondo" cologne...
No, not even a little.
Especially in an attached garage.
No thanks.
-
Ok, here it is, I agree with Kev! My 01 EV stinks up the garage because the previous owner took everything off. Stupid S... left the nipples on the injector to head boots wide open to suck air. DS! Anyway if the so called engineers can't make it run ok without removing the Evap system and the SAS they need to be fired. If I felt I had an issue the best I might consider is a pin hole through the two way valve.
-
No doubt, if you wait a little bit there'll probably be an updated Map that the dealer can flash into the ECU. Fuel Injection recalibrations are becoming a Moto Guzzi norm...
Steven Rossi
-
My 2020 V85 never did this. Must be the new tune?
-
My 2020 V85 never did this. Must be the new tune?
Different throttle body, different valve train, yeah different tune too but lots of differences.
-
If you have the early 2020 V85 map, don't let anyone near it!
-
Is it possible he has it in the wrong traction control mode? I had my V7III in mode 2 by mistake and thought it was stumbling and thought it had poor mapping or something. As soon as I went to mode 1 the smile returned to my face. As for why it happens only on the way home.......maybe he pushes it harder cause he is so thrilled to have left work!
Scott
-
Is it possible he has it in the wrong traction control mode? I had my V7III in mode 2 by mistake and thought it was stumbling and thought it had poor mapping or something. As soon as I went to mode 1 the smile returned to my face. As for why it happens only on the way home.......maybe he pushes it harder cause he is so thrilled to have left work!
Scott
Good point. My Mk 3 also came with TC level 2 so maybe that's the factory preset. I found it very intrusive, cutting power on everything from street lines to manhole (person hole?) covers to choppy pavement. That said this sounds more like a re-start issue at idle than something occurring once underway.
My V85 stumbled a bit until the valves were adjusted at 900mi but that's likely a long shot. Suggest your buddy check with another dealer like Cadre or Hamlin's to get their take. Could be a Euro 5 thing on the '21's
-
Just read on ADVRider forum that stumbling on the '21 models could be a faulty stator which also performs the crank sensor function.
https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/page-680#post-42818295 (https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/page-680#post-42818295)
-
Ok, I will get a 2022 and let them work out a few things.
Scott
-
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.
Does this void the warranty?
inditx
-
Here's the easy fix for the V7-850 hiccup. Rather than remove the whole evap system (just lazy I guess) I just removed the lower hose from the Evap control valve and capped it with a rubber cap. Works like a charm.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FH31sjQY/IMG-9775-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv1dFtCW)
-
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.
The issue seems to be the check valve sticking. MI had an innovative approach that keeps the system in place but eliminates the check valve and allows the system to vent through the charcoal canister for those who may have visual inspection at emissions inspection centers.
They remove the vacuum line from the TB(s) stuff a ball bearing into the line to block it off and reconnect, then remove the check valve, run a drill though it and re-assemble. I did the same on my MGX. Very Simple. On the Breva/Norge, I ripped the whole system out, connected the TB barbs with a vacuum line and vent the tank to below the chassis.
I havent had a problem with my Stornello system yet. No whale song, farting, etc, though I have found an occasional surge issue in similar instances after sitting for a few hours. Not tank vacuum related, seems to be fueling/map. Clears up in a few minutes. Could be psychosomatic but happens more on cheap fuel.
-
I think on the 850 it has to be done Daves way because it's electronic and would throw a code.
-
Here's the easy fix for the V7-850 hiccup. Rather than remove the whole evap system (just lazy I guess) I just removed the lower hose from the Evap control valve and capped it with a rubber cap. Works like a charm.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FH31sjQY/IMG-9775-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv1dFtCW)
Thanks Dave, a pic is worth a thousand words!
inditx
-
As Dave's modification. Although once I confirmed the cause of my "hiccup" I did the complete canister removal because I could & hate unnecessary crap on the bike.
-
Don’t need to plug the hose into anything or block it off right?
-
Don’t need to plug the hose into anything or block it off right?
It's not necessary to plug the hose. You can see the hose tucked in behind the control valve in this picture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vmyT1cQ3/IMG-9778-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1WgZxRm)
-
Are you referring to something like this ?
https://youtu.be/Li8qvFVuAJ8
The bike had not been started for almost 2 weeks, but it always does exactly the same thing. There is that short phase where it surges like that and then from there on (as you see), it smooths out perfectly.
-
Are you referring to something like this ?
https://youtu.be/Li8qvFVuAJ8
Ha! Nothing like that. When rolling down the road at a steady speed the bike gives the sensation that it hiccups. A very momentary change in power. From what I have heard this phenomena is particular to the V7-850 only. Not part of the V85TT bag of tricks. :grin:
-
Ha! Nothing like that. When rolling down the road at a steady speed the bike gives the sensation that it hiccups. A momentary change in throttle. From what I have heard this phenomena is particular to the V7-850 only. Not part of the V85TT bag of tricks. :grin:
Always a reduction in performance or just as often an uncommanded increase ?
Have you considered wedging something in the ‘grip and removing your right hand so you can be sure you are not moving the TGPS ?
If you immediately engage the cruise, does the issue manifest ?
Does the bike do the same thing in neutral when stationary ?
My V85 used to very lightly surge when riding, then I noticed if I engaged the cruise, it became rock steady. Since I halved the throttle pull, I have needed to develop a more accurate touch.
-
Ha! Nothing like that. When rolling down the road at a steady speed the bike gives the sensation that it hiccups. A very momentary change in power. From what I have heard this phenomena is particular to the V7-850 only. Not part of the V85TT bag of tricks. :grin:
What’s Guzzidiag say…?
-
It's not necessary to plug the hose. You can see the hose tucked in behind the control valve in this picture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vmyT1cQ3/IMG-9778-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1WgZxRm)
:thumb:
-
Always a reduction in performance or just as often an uncommanded increase ?
Have you considered wedging something in the ‘grip and removing your right hand so you can be sure you are not moving the TGPS ?
If you immediately engage the cruise, does the issue manifest ?
Does the bike do the same thing in neutral when stationary ?
My V85 used to very lightly surge when riding, then I noticed if I engaged the cruise, it became rock steady. Since I halved the throttle pull, I have needed to develop a more accurate touch.
The hiccup is a well known V7-850 phenomena. Most every owner has the same issue. The V7-850 does not have cruise control. I have never heard of it happening in neutral when stopped. On this issue there is no cross pollination between the V7-850 and V85TT. It is probably best that you buy your own so you can fully understand it. LOL
-
My 2020 V85 has a stumble / flat spot at about 3500 rpm and again at 4200-4400. I suspect it's a "pass emissions " thing.
-
The hiccup is a well known V7-850 phenomena. Most every owner has the same issue. The V7-850 does not have cruise control. I have never heard of it happening in neutral when stopped. On this issue there is no cross pollination between the V7-850 and V85TT. It is probably best that you buy your own so you can fully understand it. LOL
I would have to crash one of my Guzzi’s to get another.
I seriously cannot conceive of buying another new bike in my lifetime..
Unless I ride a V100 in Mandello this September
-
What’s Guzzidiag say…?
GuizDiag does not work on the V7 850 as the 850 uses Can Bus for comms rather than the K line of the older Guzzis.
-
New to MG coming from an old BMW airhead. Many of the comments here mirror what I'm seeing in my 21 V7. Over the past month, have noticed a long crank before start (not always- when it happens it's almost always first start after sitting overnight), and during the first 5-10 minutes of riding an occasional stumble, like a momentary loss of power. The latter almost always is associated with steady throttle or when initially coming off throttle. It seems to improve/go away with time/miles.
What is weird about this is it started up after I mounted a center stand. To do this I loosened the header flange and muffler mounts to gain clearance. So, I thought maybe I did not have the headers well seating and perhaps O2 was getting introduced in the exhaust stream and messing up the sensor. I remounted to see if that helped but it did not go away. I guess another coincidence is I'm riding more and the weather is notable warmer. I live in WI, got the bike in November, so really this is the first riding where the temp is above 30-40F.
Anyway, have my 1K service soon and will mention to MG and see if there is anything they can offer.
Great site here!
-
I purchased V7 850 last November. It stumbled at any steady speed under4,000 rpm. I took it to dealer and after several technicians told me there was nothing wrong. The service manager finally rode the bike and admitted it had a bad problem. He asked that they keep it to figure it out. After a week , I was again told it drove exactly like other 2021’s on the floor and there a was nothing wrong. When I went to pick it up, the owner rode my bike and another one off the floor and stated it was worse than a stumble. This was early last March.
The service manager contacted Moto Guzzi and the Guzzi representative stated there were several complaints like mine and they are working on a new map. Yesterday, the new map was installed and now the bike runs perfect. Not even a flutter!
Now a very happy V7 owner.
-
It is disappointing and sounds like the old Guzzi in that the first set of owners are the Beta testers. When they launched the V85TT, those bikes were well sorted with no issues like that before we were able to buy them. In over 19k miles - nothing on mine. Many other owners have had good riding just like me. Now, with that said, mine is Euro 4. Maybe it is a good thing that MG is finally getting into water cooling. Those should not have to be tuned within an inch of their lives to pass the tests.
We current and former R series BMW riders certainly remember the surging issues on the 1100 and 1150 series until they went dual plug in 2004. Of course, Corporate denied there was any problem and blamed it on the riders. There were never any new maps issued that I ever heard about (it would mean admitting that there was a problem).
At least MG is actually trying to satisfy the customer.