Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: canuck750 on May 28, 2016, 12:59:21 PM

Title: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: canuck750 on May 28, 2016, 12:59:21 PM
Maybe it makes no difference, and perhaps I am tied way too much to old bikes, but I stopped in at the only Guzzi dealer around here to see if the Roamer was in, it's not but they had an Eldo, a new V7 Racer with a fairing, a 2015 V7 Special from 2015 in orange / black and a V7 Stornello, pretty bike!

The dealer told me the Stornello is reintroduced as it was a scrambler race bike in the 70's with loads of history. I mentioned that It was a very nice looking bike but I thought the Stornello was a single cylinder light weight machine that came in a variety of styles typical of the 60's, street scrambler, street etc..  He didn't think so, pretty sure it was a V twin.

I had ridden up on my V7 Sport, he followed me out and asked what make of Guzzi that was, how big is the engine and when did they manufacture it? I gave him a brief history of the Sport and its variants and we had a short talk about the 'history' of Guzzi. I got the feeling he was really not interested in the past, and to be fair why should he be, he is in business to sell new bikes. Still it would be kind of cool if a dealer, the only dealer covering a very large area had some knowledge of the proud history of Guzzi and even a limited understanding of the lineage of the bikes carrying the names of the machines from the past. But Guzzi is a side line for this dealer who also sells Kawasaki, Triumph, Aprilia, Husky and MV Augusta.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 28, 2016, 01:21:07 PM
No surprise that when I stopped at a local dealer the middle aged salesman had no idea that the gas tanks for the current V7s were inspired by the 1973 V7 Sport, or that there was an Eldorado in the lineup 40 + years ago.   
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: oldbike54 on May 28, 2016, 01:29:00 PM
 Jim , that lack of knowledge is very common . The HD dealer where my nephew works has a small kiosk that says "Information" in large letters . Manned by a bikerish looking fellow for effect , unfortunately he knows less about old HD's than I do . There is a Knucklehead on display on a mezzanine running around the building , and out of curiosity I enquired whether it is a 61 CI E model, or a 74 CI F model ? He stated in a matter of fact tone that it is a 1955 Panhead , and there was no such thing as a 61 CI Knucklehead  :huh: A customer standing near by started laughing and said , "well , maybe this guy (me) should be in the booth"  :laugh: Seems maybe what "information" means is we have directions to the restroom  :evil:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: bad Chad on May 28, 2016, 01:37:23 PM
I see your point, but I think some of you guys maybe expecting a little too much from your dealers.

How often do you think you could walk into a Ducati dealer and the salesman will have facts about the single cylinder Ducati Scrambler of decades ago?  Do you think the average BMW floor guy is up on all the variations of 60s/70s/80s air heads, will he even know what year oil heads appear?

Go to a Dodge dealer and ask the guy to compare the new Charger/Challenger to its 70s inspiration and see how far he gets!

The majority of dealers, especially larger multi brand stores, won't know too much, and frankly don't care, why should they?  Like you said, they want to sell new bikes, not stand around with old guys, on old bikes and talk about what was state of the art when the guy was 7 years old!  There are some who know their history, far better than I, but they aren't the mega dealers.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: pikipiki on May 28, 2016, 01:38:57 PM
Some companies are really tight on this kind of thing. Ok it's not really viable to get all the countries dealers together for aa seminar but some paraphinalia about each model, inspiration for the model, how to sell it. It's all basic stuff.

I had to read about and the complete a test of my knowledge of the companies latest delivery van and how wonderful it is only the other week. I don't work for a van manufacturer, I have nothing to do with delivery, I just work for a wholesaler that bought some vans. most of the stuff I had to learn was about how efficient and recycleable it was and how the driver now has a display of the refrigerator temperature, about the comms and gps.... and why that gave us the edge I green credentials and quality of product.

now by comparisson why should a motorcycle dealer not know thier product?
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Triple Jim on May 28, 2016, 01:45:07 PM
I believe the spelling is nubiles, but I've never seen any for sale at the local dealer.    :grin:
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: bad Chad on May 28, 2016, 01:45:35 PM
"now by comparisson why should a motorcycle dealer not know their product?"

They should know their product!  I just don't think it's realistic to expect them to be "up" on the previous 40 years of offerings.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: LaMojo on May 28, 2016, 01:48:06 PM
Maybe some of us retired folk that live near dealerships should apply for a sales job to inform the public - and the dealers.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: pikipiki on May 28, 2016, 01:55:37 PM
"now by comparisson why should a motorcycle dealer not know their product?"

They should know their product!  I just don't think it's realistic to expect them to be "up" on the previous 40 years of offerings.

i thought they were selling on heritage these days? Oh I forget the latest V9 offerings, the heritage models, are a little light on Guzzi heritage.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: not-fishing on May 28, 2016, 02:09:11 PM
Why is anyone surprised by the lack of knowledge among the sales staff?

30+ yrs ago when I bought my first Alfa bot the salesmen and Alfa District Rep know nearly nothing about Alfa's.and the Dealer's repair staff proved it about half a dozen times

No difference when I bought my Cadillac CTS-V from the Dealer a decade ago.

Most Car/pickup/motorcycle Dealer Sales persons could be selling shoes for all they really know about the product.

The Salesman who truly knows is a rare beast along with their Dealership.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: canuguzzi on May 28, 2016, 02:18:30 PM
Its the same with car dealers or any dealer of anything mostly. They are selling what they have and just how many current buyers really care that much about the history if the bike they are buying? Chances are they will buy it if the like it and go out and ride.

Today's present becomes history soon enough.

The satisfaction of knowing the history is there for the asking and unless its some collector item, embellishment comes hand in hand with selling, not made up stuff mind you but for sure everything in the best light.

Dealer might have 5 brands of motorcycles plus the watercraft, quads and such. The owner of the shop might know the history but the sales staff? Could be selling Volkswagons tomorrow.

Besides, where would you rather hear about the heritage of Moto Guzzi, from a dealer or on WG? Just read some posts where knowledge goes back 4-5 decades and more specific to Moto Guzzi. That is where its learned.

My 974647874 cents.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Travlr on May 28, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
>But Guzzi is a side line for this dealer who also sells ....... MV Augusta.

I doubt he know who Giacomo Agostini is either. 

The day of the knowledgeable dealer is over.  Motorcycle sales are going to way of car sales.
Mega dealers who live on volume.  The salesman you see today will be gone tomorrow.

It's the wave of the future.  We don't have to like it, but it's reality.

M

Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: John Ulrich on May 28, 2016, 02:23:09 PM
In sales it's sometimes not what you know but knowing how to ask for the order.   :wink:
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: jdgretz on May 28, 2016, 03:16:21 PM
When I was looking to find a Norge to test ride, I ended up at the now defunct Long Beach Vespa/Moto Guzzi dealer.  Short test ride which sold me on the bike, but when I asked about anything technical on the bike, I was told that this was all new to them and that their mechanics had not been to the formal training yet, but, there way this guy down the street at Moto Guzzi Classics who knew all about these bikes.  Thus I was pointed to Mark and he, in turn, pointed me to Moto International for the sale.

At least the dealer was honest about their lack of knowledge, and I give them credit for that.

jdg
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: stevet on May 28, 2016, 04:25:05 PM
Fellas, you and I can't have a history without a present and a future.  Every one of your favorite long-time dealers, either still in operation or long gone, was at one point a brand-new, bumbling, absolutely clueless Moto Guzzi dealer.

If you want to preserve the history of the brand, you darn well better help assure its future.  Old rigs are cool, but they are MEANINGLESS to Mandello (other than the factory museum), the importers, distributors, and dealers.  You better buy that glorious new machine from that clueless new dealer, and help them to understand the here-and-now so they will be there for you tomorrow.  These folks are not making one dime from history.  They make their living, keep their lights on, and feed their families with dollars traded today for new wares.  Keep supporting them so they can afford to hire good staff, and so they learn more about the products they sell, and in time become your new favorite dealer.  The dealer won't know diddly of his product if you aren't buying it, not forcing him to get to know what's on his floor.  If you show them your passion time and again, they'll have a better chance of catching the Guzzi bug, too.  (Yes, I am doing this with my local dealer.)

If you want to wax nostalgic about the great Italian brand, well, their are books and 'net forums and Saturday breakfasts and annual camp-outs for such things.  Want to help that dealer get to know his customer base?  You and your local Guzzi pals need to get to know him and his staff, and make sure he'll have a welcome spot at the next rally or next Saturday breakfast.  These folks are working stiffs like you and me, they aren't historians.  You and I, we're the historians.  Without us, Guzzi and its dealers turns off the lights.

Steve.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Mike Harper on May 28, 2016, 04:41:31 PM
Jim , that lack of knowledge is very common . The HD dealer where my nephew works has a small kiosk that says "Information" in large letters . Manned by a bikerish looking fellow for effect , unfortunately he knows less about old HD's than I do . There is a Knucklehead on display on a mezzanine running around the building , and out of curiosity I enquired whether it is a 61 CI E model, or a 74 CI F model ? He stated in a matter of fact tone that it is a 1955 Panhead , and there was no such thing as a 61 CI Knucklehead  :huh: A customer standing near by started laughing and said , "well , maybe this guy (me) should be in the booth"  :laugh: Seems maybe what "information" means is we have directions to the restroom  :evil:

 Dusty

Since the thread name is about the dealers that sell new biles that information kiosk operator probably knew his bile and was a real authority on bile since it was a HD dealership


  :thumb:

Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: toaster404 on May 28, 2016, 06:17:23 PM
The Internet and some kind of cultural shift possibly associated with the Internet may have reduced both the interest in really learning material and the willingness to commit to memory such material.  We also have a large body of people who don't know how things work, and consider that only specialists can and need to understand them.  That shows up in complex machine sales all the time.  I usually know more about cars and motorcycles than anyone inside the shop, except the mechanics.  Maybe.  Few sales people could properly explain a four-cycle engine.  Fortunately for them, most people are concerned about color schemes, not so much about timing systems, suspensions, and the like. 

But somebody knows somewhere.  I've passed from one person to another with a question, calling from a dealership, until I end up with a real engineer (a surprised one) who first says "nobody ever calls and asks about anything" and then explains whatever it is very clearly.  If there are bogus compromises in a system, the engineers will usually hint enough to figure it out.

We're just out here stuck with folks trying to make it in a difficult business, and attempting to figure out what to stock.  Were I selling these things, I'd have the walls covered in history and brief the sales people on it a little bit.  Not going to hold my breath!
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: canuck750 on May 28, 2016, 06:21:35 PM
Since the thread name is about the dealers that sell new biles that information kiosk operator probably knew his bile and was a real authority on bile since it was a HD dealership


  :thumb:

Good one Mike, I'm not going to correct my spelling, I think you nailed it.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Arizona Wayne on May 28, 2016, 06:39:48 PM
I have a poster I bought on eBay years ago that show decades of Guzzi models on it, many that were never sold here in the US.  Maybe MG should give every new dealer 1 of these posters to put up to let customers know MG has been around for a long time.   :grin:
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: rboe on May 28, 2016, 08:49:40 PM
If the history of the brand was critical to the sale (and to attract customers that expected it) then they would hit the books. But they don't so for the most part they don't.

That is what forums are for.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: canuguzzi on May 28, 2016, 09:02:37 PM
Given how many Guzzi owners don't frequent their dealers past maybe the initial purchase why invest the time and energy to know the history especially since most new buyers don't really care anyway?

I'd care more about the competence of their service personnel than what some salesperson knows.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: rodekyll on May 28, 2016, 11:20:36 PM
I got fired as a car salesman once for wasting time talking tech with a prospect.  My manager explained (for the last time) that "All they need to know is the monthly payment and can they get it in red."
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: rocker59 on May 28, 2016, 11:32:16 PM
I see your point, but I think some of you guys maybe expecting a little too much from your dealers.

How often do you think you could walk into a Ducati dealer and the salesman will have facts about the single cylinder Ducati Scrambler of decades ago?  Do you think the average BMW floor guy is up on all the variations of 60s/70s/80s air heads, will he even know what year oil heads appear?

Go to a Dodge dealer and ask the guy to compare the new Charger/Challenger to its 70s inspiration and see how far he gets!

The majority of dealers, especially larger multi brand stores, won't know too much, and frankly don't care, why should they?  Like you said, they want to sell new bikes, not stand around with old guys, on old bikes and talk about what was state of the art when the guy was 7 years old!  There are some who know their history, far better than I, but they aren't the mega dealers.

The dealership where I used to work was one of those where a person could ask questions like in the OP and one of us would know.  We had a "Triumph guy", a "Ducati guy", and a "Guzzi guy".  Between us, we could carry on a conversation with any enthusiasts who happened to be in the store, and educate potential buyers new to the brands we carried.

Without history, there is nothing.  Sorry, but a Guzzi dealership employee not knowing a V7 Sport is equivalent to an HD dealer not knowing what a '72 Superglide was.  Inexcusable, really...

Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: DaSwami on May 29, 2016, 12:06:12 AM
Buyer buying new bike, no connection to history.

Never heard of MG until 2012, but saw a pic of the new 2103 V7 Stone and fell in love.  The rest IS history. 

I really don't care TOO much about the brand's history, only the here and now.  And the V7II is an awesome bike in my estimation.   

Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: rodekyll on May 29, 2016, 12:15:58 AM
I don't think the average consumer expects the average salesman to have a complete history of the marquee in question.  For me the '70s stuff is current.  I'm stuck in time there and don't mind it.  I don't know or appreciate spine frames and plastibikes and small blocks.  If I was hired somewhere I'd learn the parts book and sell the inventory, but my head would still be in the 70s, I still wouldn't mind, and I still wouldn't know or appreciate . . . .

The difference is that I know the stuff that goes in to making stuff go.  Once you know that, the details, like "what is this thing?" often don't matter.  2 vales or 8, carbs or injectors, pushrods or cams, CDI or coils, aviation or marine, it's still suck, squish, blast, blow.  I don't care what they tell you.

What makes that guy at the counter valuable isn't hysterical historical expertise, it's him knowing when those details matter, and when they don't.  That's what you're missing at the counter anymore -- the 'expert' could be selling plumbing or shoes, too.  What's he's an expert at is company policies and procedures.  And if you want to stay employed, isn't that what really matters?
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 29, 2016, 10:55:24 AM
Buyer buying new bike, no connection to history.

Never heard of MG until 2012, but saw a pic of the new 2103 V7 Stone and fell in love.  The rest IS history. 

I really don't care TOO much about the brand's history, only the here and now.  And the V7II is an awesome bike in my estimation.

No problem with all that, but now knowing the the bike and especially the tank are paying homage to the one  of the most revered MGs of all time the 1973 V7 Sport, make you love it even a little bit more?
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/dswansbiker/v700008-1.jpg) (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/dswansbiker/media/v700008-1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: rocker59 on May 29, 2016, 11:24:00 AM

Just out of curiosity, I have some questions:

Never heard of MG until 2012, but saw a pic of the new 2103 V7 Stone and fell in love.  The rest IS history. 

How long have you been riding and/or exposed to motorcycling?

What were you riding before you bought the V7?

I really don't care TOO much about the brand's history, only the here and now.  And the V7II is an awesome bike in my estimation.

What makes the V7 "awesome" ?

What was awesome about your previous bikes?

 
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: DaSwami on May 29, 2016, 12:01:08 PM
I'm sure you do!

Just out of curiosity, I have some questions:

How long have you been riding and/or exposed to motorcycling?

What were you riding before you bought the V7?

What makes the V7 "awesome" ?

What was awesome about your previous bikes?

Other than riding a Honda MT-50 as an 11 year old, I've been riding hard core for only 6 years now.  I've always WANTED to ride but was never allowed as a kid.  I grew up admiring and desiring the UJM.  But never followed through.  Then school, family and kids, all sidetracked me.

My first bike was a DR650.  Recommended by the motorcycle safety school instructor.  I've owned TU250X, SR400, 2013 Stone.  My first "real" bike was a mint GSX1100G that I bought from the second owner.  Wow, that thing was fast.

Currently own a V7II Stone, Scrambler, CB1100, and TW200.

The V7II checks all the boxes.  It looks great.  And it is so logical.  Huge fuel tank, old school air and oil cooled engine, cast wheels, shaft drive, enough power, I like the ABS and traction control, I like the analog twin gauges, the dual exhaust.  It's relatively lightweight. With the improved ergos there is nothing not to like except for the less than average suspension.  The sound, the handling, I love it all.

I like the old school naked standard style.  No radiators, plastic fairings, big panniers or tail bags for me. 

Anything else?

I'm really happy I can buy this bike in 2016, along with the others I listed. 
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: swordds on May 29, 2016, 01:01:12 PM
I agree, the V7II is the ideal motorcycle for me, not to big, not to small, not to heavy, not to fast, not to slow, shaft drive, FI, EI, ABS, great range, good maintenance schedule milage, great looks, analog guages including a tach (I know some people don't need a tach but I do), air cooled, 6 speed transmission, I even have a center stand. No other motorcycle checks all those boxes. I only wish it had a gear indicator, but can live without one. And my dealer in Pensacola Florida not only knows some history, he has several beautifully restored 60's and 70's models on the floor and a cutaway large block engine and transmission with a crank so you can see all of the inner workings of the mechanics including the clutch and drive shaft (worth a stop in and look around like a museum if you are in the neighborhood, especially if you can convince them to let you back in the attached wearhouse).
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: DaSwami on May 29, 2016, 01:07:49 PM
I agree, the V7II is the ideal motorcycle for me, not to big, not to small, not to heavy, not to fast, not to slow, shaft drive, FI, EI, ABS, great range, good maintenance schedule milage, great looks, analog guages including a tach (I know some people don't need a tach but I do), air cooled, 6 speed transmission, I even have a center stand. No other motorcycle checks all those boxes. I only wish it had a gear indicator, but can live without one. And my dealer in Pensacola Florida not only knows some history, he has several beautifully restored 60's and 70's models on the floor and a cutaway large block engine and transmission with a crank so you can see all of the inner workings of the mechanics including the clutch and drive shaft (worth a stop in and look around like a museum if you are in the neighborhood, especially if you can convince them to let you back in the attached wearhouse).

Cool beans, in a month they will by MY new dealer!!
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 29, 2016, 01:22:17 PM
I'm 50 and if I were selling any line of bike I would do some searching on the basic past.  If there was a bike paying homage to a former bike (i.e. V7 line), I would know what it draws on in the past.  This is me.  I go into a Guzzi dealership and mention my older bikes and they get a funny look on their faces like it's a different make.  They simply can't relate.  I think they could sell more bikes to those previous older Guzzi folks looking for something if they could talk their language to SOME degree.  How much time does this take to learn basic knowledge... very little.  At least show you SEEM to care because it IS more comforting.  I doubt they really understand the workings of their current bikes or even the difference between the V7 and V7II.  Why is that important... because there are upgrades and by mentioning them you can sell a bike easier.  By mentioning the past you can sell the present. 
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Turin on May 29, 2016, 01:29:32 PM
I'd be grateful just to not have to listen to the old wives tale about the Guzzi V-twin originally powering a small 3 wheel Italian tank.  :violent1:
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Stephen on May 29, 2016, 01:39:38 PM
Last two times I stopped at the newest Guzzi Dealer in the DFW area, well north anyway, the two young sales men were willing they new nothing of Guzzi History, but were willing to listen to a short history lesson.
I'd rather have someone admit they new nothing than try to make it up.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: drums4money on May 29, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Longevity of the 40's & 50's models was of critical interest to me when I took home my 1200Sport.  It wasn't until the dealer was able to make a convincing correlation between a Falcone and the big Breva that I was able to make the purchase with my head rather than my heart.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Arizona Wayne on May 29, 2016, 03:35:50 PM
Since most salesmen know diddly squat about what they are selling, I'm thankful we have the internet to educate ourselves as best we can.  :thumb:  Didn't used to be that way.  If I get a salesman that does know what he's talking about, that's a +.   If I catch them faking it, I'm not impressed.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 29, 2016, 03:59:36 PM
Longevity of the 40's & 50's models was of critical interest to me when I took home my 1200Sport.  It wasn't until the dealer was able to make a convincing correlation between a Falcone and the big Breva that I was able to make the purchase with my head rather than my heart.

That was a good one! 
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: jbell on May 29, 2016, 07:15:56 PM
It's my understanding that most dealers won't even work on bikes over 10 years old or so.  Why would they bother teaching their staff brand history?  Of the several dealerships I've been to the past few years trying to decide what bike to buy, only one bothered to ask my name and gave me a call back.  Personal service and customer relationships have simply changed these days of the Internet to, as has already been stated, "how much does it cost and do you have it in red?"  The old dealerships are gone and sales volume is the driving force along with t-shirts and apparel, for good or for bad.   It's simply the way it is.  Thankfully, these fora exist for the loyalists to gather and share information and lament the good old days.  Anybody want to meet at the mercantile and sit around the stove and discuss steel wheel tractors vs these new fangled ones with tires?  Didn't think so.  And yes, I know there is someone in this forum that could put up a good argument.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: perk5560 on May 29, 2016, 07:59:54 PM
I agree with Swordds, Adventure Motorsports in Pensacola is a great dealership.  Todd the sales manager has a real interest in the MG both past and present and genuinely cares about the brand.  I bought my new 1400 from them a few months back and found it a very satisfying experience.

Dave
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: rodekyll on May 30, 2016, 01:01:23 AM
Not a bike shop, but the same sort of problem -- I went into a radio shack store (we still have one) to get a battery for a digital meter.  It had a hatch we had to open.  She found a screwdriver, we opened it, got the battery out, and I asked her to find the replacement because my eyes are too old to read the tiny numbers.  She squinted at it and asked "Is this for a hearing aid?"
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: swordds on May 30, 2016, 07:33:05 AM
I should be embarrassed to admit, when I bought my V7II Stone I knew nothing about MGs (to me an MG is still a British sports car) and the only other motorcycle I ever owned was a TU250X. I bought my V7II sight unseen based on comparisons of features and specifications (and not on motorcycle magazine subjective reviews). It wasn't until weeks after buying it that I went online to even ask why the silly V7II Stone name?  The name made no sense to me beyond the "V" part of it (I am still not sure I understand  the "Stone" part of it).  So I probably did everything wrong when it comes to buying a motorcycle, I drove 200 miles to a dealer I had never visited and bought a motorcycle I had never ridden or even seen other than in pictures after ordering it on the phone and sending a check in the mail. I hadn't even checked out the MG forums first (probably a good thing!). And still I ended up with my perfect bike from a great dealer. I guess it just shows, luck, happenstance, and coincidence can triumph over intelligence and thoughtful planning anytime.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: blackcat on May 30, 2016, 09:07:12 AM
The long gone stand alone local Guzzi,Aprilia, Vespa dealer had a salesman that pointed to the oil cooler on the Norge and told a customer that the bike was water cooled. Normally I don't get involved in stupid conversations, but in this case I had to say something.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Vagrant on May 30, 2016, 05:18:55 PM
I find great humor in this thread. as a professional salesman and trainer for over 40 years I can assure you that at best 1 in 10 salesmen know even a tiny bit about what they sell. 2 in 100 actually know how to sell and what an open ended question is.
most discouraging is the latest US distributor personal are in the same boat. if any one of them knew any history of Guzzi they might just have the balls to call up the head honcho at the factory and ask them when they are going to get their S--t together! if you look at the forum today whether it is about loosing dealers because the factory doesn't handle warranty properly or list all current problems like quality control, poor breathers, electrical issues, transmission leaks on the clutch etc. you could back date the date on the post to 1972 or 1992 or 2004 and nothing would change.
no dealer support, Q.C. issues and sales will continue to suck. after all there are only so many dealers to set up. you need to see to it they are taken care of by the factory first.
And yes I did buy a new V7 Stone 2015 this spring. #11 of about 40 new bikes over the years.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: perk5560 on May 31, 2016, 07:01:43 AM
I really have to agree with Vagrant on this one as far as quality control goes.  I don't believe I have any issues with the quality of the components on the bike but rather the assembly or lack of that I have a problem with.  After riding the bike 700 miles from dealership to my home and upon closer scrutiny of the bike, I've found a missing clamp a missing exterior gas tank gasket, a missing drain hose and a drain hose that was there but not hooked up.

Even with this said, I have to say I LOVE the bike, the way it looks, handles and performs and would not sell it or trade it for anything else out there.

Dave
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Kev m on May 31, 2016, 07:48:25 AM
i thought they were selling on heritage these days? Oh I forget the latest V9 offerings, the heritage models, are a little light on Guzzi heritage.

This actually brings up a good point.

Retro/Classic styled bikes sell on A PERCEPTION of heritage.

The heritage doesn't have to be "real" (whatever that would mean, as in a direct, unbroken, mechanical lineage).

The heritage has to look/feel "classic'.

VERY few people ACTUALLY want an old bike.

I think the majority of buyers who choose a retro/classic simply want designs that remind us of the archetype of a classic motorcycle.

Harley, Triumph, Indian, and Guzzi all make serious bread and butter with this.

Ducati and BMW make something out of doing this in a more perceptively modern way.

JAPanInc. generally has a tougher time with it and my guess it's because their customers put an even higher priority on other attributes (appliance like performance/reliability and low cost over character/feel/fit/finish).

With that said, knowledge of ACTUAL heritage is mostly unnecessary for the average dealer staff, AND models like the V9 who don't directly draw from heritage may still benefit from the perception of it.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: jbell on May 31, 2016, 09:57:29 AM
I should be embarrassed to admit, when I bought my V7II Stone I knew nothing about MGs (to me an MG is still a British sports car) and the only other motorcycle I ever owned was a TU250X. I bought my V7II sight unseen based on comparisons of features and specifications (and not on motorcycle magazine subjective reviews). It wasn't until weeks after buying it that I went online to even ask why the silly V7II Stone name?  The name made no sense to me beyond the "V" part of it (I am still not sure I understand  the "Stone" part of it).  So I probably did everything wrong when it comes to buying a motorcycle, I drove 200 miles to a dealer I had never visited and bought a motorcycle I had never ridden or even seen other than in pictures after ordering it on the phone and sending a check in the mail. I hadn't even checked out the MG forums first (probably a good thing!). And still I ended up with my perfect bike from a great dealer. I guess it just shows, luck, happenstance, and coincidence can triumph over intelligence and thoughtful planning anytime.

Swordds, that's called Karma.  Obviously you did something of extreme goodness in a previous life.  Congratulations.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: canuguzzi on May 31, 2016, 12:04:58 PM
I really have to agree with Vagrant on this one as far as quality control goes.  I don't believe I have any issues with the quality of the components on the bike but rather the assembly or lack of that I have a problem with.  After riding the bike 700 miles from dealership to my home and upon closer scrutiny of the bike, I've found a missing clamp a missing exterior gas tank gasket, a missing drain hose and a drain hose that was there but not hooked up.

Even with this said, I have to say I LOVE the bike, the way it looks, handles and performs and would not sell it or trade it for anything else out there.

Dave

Good points.

Thing is, no one really takes the time or wants to tell anyone about missing or loose bolts, substandard assembly and so on. People might run to a forum and say something but how many communicate it to the people who can actually do something about it?

Would you change anything if the people buying it never complained and just drank the koolaid with a big grin?
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: bad Chad on May 31, 2016, 03:47:57 PM
We are talking about an Italian motorcycle manufacture here!  About everything coming out of the factory is much more likely do be right, than it was in decades past.   But if you asked them produce like the Germans, then I'm afraid, if they could pull it off, the charm that makes Guzzi, Guzzi would most certainly be left in the parts bin...

Give me a Guzzi that might need a little grease, you can have your Uber cycles!
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Jerryd on June 01, 2016, 05:11:15 AM
I find great humor in this thread. as a professional salesman and trainer for over 40 years I can assure you that at best 1 in 10 salesmen know even a tiny bit about what they sell. 2 in 100 actually know how to sell and what an open ended question is.


I find that hard to believe. In our business which is a high technology field, a sales person like that would never get hired and if by mistake they did, they wouldn't last long.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: Vagrant on June 01, 2016, 01:55:15 PM
I find that hard to believe. In our business which is a high technology field, a sales person like that would never get hired and if by mistake they did, they wouldn't last long.

I bought a new Cadillac a few years ago. the only thing the sales guy knew is it had a Bose radio.
the Ford truck sales guy only knew that he could stick his USB stick in and have his own music.
the multi line bike dealers sales knew absolutely nothing. I asked him if he ever read any of the bike mags. and he said he was too busy raising 3 kids on his own. hope he isn't on commission!
I could go on forever with these pathetic stories.
Title: Re: Dealers selling new biles - no connection to history
Post by: canuck750 on June 01, 2016, 05:47:58 PM
With that said, knowledge of ACTUAL heritage is mostly unnecessary for the average dealer staff, AND models like the V9 who don't directly draw from heritage may still benefit from the perception of it.

I completely agree that a salesman does not need to know the 'history' of the manufacturer's products that he is peddling, as most purchasers are not aware of the lineage behind the new models on the salesroom floor. However when a salesperson does know the history, the background, good and bad of a marques then he/she is no longer a salesman but an enthusiast.

I think that most people who wander off the beaten path to purchase a Moto Guzzi are not your average Joe public motor bike owner and would appreciate that the people representing the brand are as passionate about Moto Guzzi as the buyer. I have no problem with Japanese bikes, and continue to own several, great appliances each and every one, and the Japanese have their own history to be proud of as well. But I feel Moto Guzzi is something special, operating out of the same picturesque lake side factory and such an amazing history of competition.

I find it disappointing and unfortunate that the sales people I have met selling the brand appear to have little to no interest in learning about the manufacturer.