Author Topic: V7 weight reduction  (Read 460 times)

Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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V7 weight reduction
« on: December 06, 2021, 05:44:30 AM »
Inspired by a similar thread on RE weight reduction, and a reply there:

... For your needs a small block Guzzi fits the bill,  135 kg maybe not but 160 was easy (2-1 exhaust, seat, plastic tank and various unnecessary heavy bits gone). Lighter wheels and a plastic headlight would get it closer to your mark
From a V50 to a modern V7, all basically same platform.

... I thought it would be good to have a dedicated thread on that topic covering the V7s, possibly with a little bit more detail.
I guess most of the stuff here applies to most bikes, though.

For example: I own a V7 III Night Pack (the Euro version with the sleeker taillight; don't know if there are additional differences).
And I would love to get rid of, say, 20 of it's ~200kgs (so ~44 of it's 440 lbs).
It is bone stock apart from the aluminium side covers and bar end mirrors.

Now the single most effective way of reducing weight is obviously the exhaust system.
That's easy enough and documented relatively well.
In my case, needing a Euro 4+ and EC approved system and not wanting a 2-in-1, I can still lose around 5kgs with lighter slip-ons.

jacksonracingcomau mentions a plastic tank.
I can only assume the one mentioned is a V7 classic plastic tank or similar? What kind of weight reduction would be possible there?
I guess I'd have to convert it a bit so it fits the V7 III?
This is a controversial subject, but I'm really only concerned with possible weight saving. And if it only saves weight because of it's lesser capacity that's a no go too.
No hard numbers yet, but other people seem to think it is not worth it (Frulk, kev_m).

Lighter wheels:
Alloy wheels instead of spoked ones. I already have MG alloys (~4kgs/8lbs lighter than MG wire wheels). Any lighter fitting wheels around that don't cost a fortune?

Seat:
Single seat/ shorter seat
I have yet to find any solid figures on possible savings there.

Side Panels, miscellaneous other (engine) covers, brake discs, mirrors...
I'll try and weigh the parts as I have already swapped some of them

Dirk_S also suggested:
Aluminium fenders
Certainly true - hopefully we can get some numbers too.

Lithium battery
Indeed saves a bit more than 3kg/7lbs (that's my stock Yuasa 12aH battery vs. the Shorai LFX21 "A" polarity, case type 6)

kev:
Removal of unnecessary bits:
e.g. passenger footrest,...

Cutting stuff from the frame
rear subframe, unused mountig points...


Any input is welcome!
The more detail the better, especially the weight of parts.

Cheers,
D.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 12:14:19 PM by Dimitri_Harkov »
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2021, 06:28:49 AM »
The aluminum fenders are lighter than the plastic ones.

A lithium battery can shave about 8-10 lb.

I would weigh your wheels. Spoked wheels can often times be lighter than cast, especially if they’re aluminum rims.

I’ve done all of these on my bike to reduce weight, along with the aforementioned 2-1 exhaust. Now I can keep up with the Thruxtons.

…that’s a joke.

But I wouldn’t swap the tank for a plastic one. They expand in heat over time. Worth the cost?

You can also convert your seat to a solo saddle, chop out the rear fender bridge/seat pin plate, chop off the rear rails and rear mudguard completely.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2021, 06:30:36 AM »
jacksonracingcomau mentions a plastic tank.
I can only assume the one mentioned is a V7 classic plastic tank or similar? What kind of weight reduction would be possible there?
I guess I'd have to convert it a bit so it fits the V7 III?

AAAAHHHHHHHHH DON'T DO THIS.... one of the BEST features of the V7 is the beautiful, large capacity, durable, fuel tank.

The earlier 2TB models (V7C, Cafe Classic, early Racer) used a plastic tank of similar shape and slightly smaller size. So by the fact that it is plastic that holds about ~1 - 1.something gallons less, it IS lighter, but that's just a silly place to try and lose weight.


Lighter wheels:
Alloy wheels instead of spoked ones. I already have MG alloys. Any lighter fitting wheels around that don't cost a fortune?

I seem to remember Guzzi mentioning both the spokes and alloys were "new and lighter" wheels when they introduced the dual throttle body models. I can't imagine there's much savings to be had there unless you're talking very high priced replacements.

Actually I sorta think this is pointless as most of the weight is going to come down to the main assemblies. But if it is really an obsession I would think going old school and removing or cutting off parts would be the only real hope.

I mean - custom made seat that's half the size, get rid of most of the rear subframe/fender/license plate/tail light assembly replace with very small custom bits. Remove passenger pegs and mounts, replace with small custom made exhaust hangers.

But to what all that would REALLY amount, ?!? I can't say. I don't think it would be significant, though maybe added to an exhaust change might net you something you could feel.
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2021, 06:51:33 AM »
Thanks guys, I added your suggestions to the OP.

While cutting unnecessary parts off the frame would be nice of course, I can't really do that for mostly legal reasons.
I added it to the list anyway as many people might have more freedom in that regard.

I would not mind shortening the seat, but I don't want to loose the space to put my bags on.
But maybe rails+shorter seat is still less heavy than the standard one?

Might go well with aluminium fenders too!

Seems to me my 20kg target is not too far off...

The stock MG wire wheels are about 4kgs heavier than the stock MG alloys, btw.

Cheers,
D.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 06:53:22 AM by Dimitri_Harkov »
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2021, 06:51:33 AM »

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2021, 07:10:03 AM »
Thanks guys, I added your suggestions to the OP.

While cutting unnecessary parts off the frame would be nice of course, I can't really do that for mostly legal reasons.
I added it to the list anyway as many people might have more freedom in that regard.

Yeah, I was curious what your country's legal necessities entail.

Another mod to consider is removing the evap canister, if the Euro models have them (assuming yes). Don't know if your shops would check and possibly deny service if it's removed, or if it must be attached when reselling.

Quote
I would not mind shortening the seat, but I don't want to loose the space to put my bags on.
But maybe rails+shorter seat is still less heavy than the standard one?

If you leave the rear part intact, but just shorten the seat, you may be shaving... a kg? I'm in the process of making a solo seat similar to this one (but better looking, hopefully), but I'll also be adding a fender rack:





...a little weight off, a little weight on:

Quote
The stock MG wire wheels are about 4kgs heavier than the stock MG alloys, btw.

Just curious what data you're using for wheel comparison? Pre-V7 II spoked wheels were indeed a different metal alloy compound. But then again, the newest cast wheels could be lighter than the older cast ones as well.

Having said that, shedding weight at the wheel is more effective than weight off other areas on the bike if you're looking for slightly better performance. Curious how much some of those higher quality/higher priced wheels might weigh in comparison, as Kev noted.
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2021, 07:25:11 AM »
Ah, same thing with the evap & stuff. No way to remove those... Not worth it if I get cought.

Ah, yes. Something like that fender-rack + shorter seat was indeed what I had in mind :)

The weight data for the wheels comes from the weight difference between the special and stone. Beside the wheels the only difference is the rev counter and the grab rail... hence most of the difference must be the wheels. My dealer confirmed that but could not give specific numbers either.

Cheers,
D.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2021, 07:30:23 AM »
The weight data for the wheels comes from the weight difference between the special and stone. Beside the wheels the only difference is the rev counter and the grab rail... hence most of the difference must be the wheels. My dealer confirmed that but could not give specific numbers either.

Which models Stone and Special are being compared? The new 850 Stone and Special also differ in lighting (Stone uses LED), but I assume you're comparing V7 III bikes, since that's what you have?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 07:31:23 AM by Dirk_S »
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2021, 07:35:28 AM »
Yeah, sorry. I was comparing the V7 III Stone and the V7 III Special.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2021, 07:45:33 AM »
Yeah, sorry. I was comparing the V7 III Stone and the V7 III Special.

I’m that case, consider also

  • the fenders—is the Stone’s mudguards chopped more than the Special?
  • the side covers—if the Stone is using aluminium side panels, and the Special is using plastic, there’s a small amount of weight difference there,
  • lighting—looks like one of the Stone models is using LED
  • I’m betting the chrome-plated exhausts on the Special may be heavier than the matte-finish Stone exhausts, too.

Individually, they’re not much in difference, but collectively can add up to maybe an extra 3-6 kg? That’s just a guess.
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2021, 07:57:22 AM »
I was comparing the base stone and the specials.
They are exactly the same except:
  • special has grab rail behind seat instead of grab strap on the seat
  • stone has fork gaiters
  • special has a rev counter
  • special has wire wheels instead of the stone's alloys

And yes, a bit more 'silver' on the special - but as the exhaust is stainless steel I'm pretty sure it is just polished and not chrome plated.
People with more insight on that matter will tune in shortly, I'm sure ;)

Fenders, side panels, lights... all the same.

Cheers,
D.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 08:08:50 AM by Dimitri_Harkov »
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Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2021, 10:20:09 AM »
I've added weight to my Anni via engine guards, rear rack, top case, flyscreen, and my extra lockdown weight. :violent1: Replacing the battery, and reducing my @$$ are my current to-do list priorities. :thumb: Any reasonably priced battery suggestions appreciated.
:bow: Thanks for enabling my MG obsession! :bow:
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2021, 11:02:27 AM »
Indeed, I have done the same... ;)

The H&B engine guard alone weighs almost 4kg.
But I'm looking into a lighter solution there as well.

I'm not doing that for 'performance' reasons btw. I just miss the effortlessness in the handling compared to my previous much lighter bikes (the heaviest was 140kg!).

Cheers,
D.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 11:40:42 AM by Dimitri_Harkov »
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2021, 11:06:01 AM »
Any reasonably priced battery suggestions appreciated.

I know I've reached my frequency quota for commenting in this thread, but I've had both Shorai and Battery Tender brand lithium-iron batteries, and dig both. Shorai has a tender/charger that works specifically with their batteries to ensure that all levels become equally charged to 100%. Battery Tender's battery has a fail-safe that keeps the battery from discharging to damaging levels. Both are a little more $$, but before I threw on my engine guards, pannier racks, and rear rack, I indeed felt the weight savings of a lighter battery, aluminum fenders, and 2-1 exhaust. Those changes alone probably led to a jettison of at least 22 lb (10 kg)



« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 11:11:43 AM by Dirk_S »
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2021, 11:15:57 AM »
I'm not doing that for 'performance' reasons btw. I just miss the effortlessness in the handling compared to my previous much lighter bikes (the heaviest was 135kg!).

I bet there are more factors at play here than just weight.
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2021, 11:43:55 AM »
@Dirk_S: Thanks to your example, I could calculate the actual savings (which of course match what you already said) and I put it in the OP as well  :thumb:
Nice bike, btw!

Time for me to dig up the old plastic side covers and weigh them in comparison to the aluminium ones...

Cheers,
D.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 11:54:06 AM by Dimitri_Harkov »
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Offline travelingbyguzzi

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2021, 08:21:19 PM »
Nobody has mentioned brake rotors. Are there any options there? Like wheels, unsprung weight is a good place to start.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2021, 08:42:47 PM »
Having added about 50lbs to my Stornello, I am hardly qualified to participate in this weight loss program  :boozing:

HB Case guards, center stand, rear and side racks w/custom bracket on exhaust side and triple xplorer bags, an adapted large Norge windscreen, stelvio hand guards with larger bar ends weights, xtra led tail and running lights, MGMP module, 2" built up seat, oxford heated grips, and a few other things, but for my purposes, I find the bike to be more stable and less squirrely with the extra weight.  I have though also lost 30lbs and have 20 to go, so will break even....

Good luck on the program!

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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2021, 10:24:23 PM »
Inspired by a similar thread on RE weight reduction, and a reply there:

... I thought it would be good to have a dedicated thread on that topic covering the V7s, possibly with a little bit more detail.
I guess most of the stuff here applies to most bikes, though.

For example: I own a V7 III Night Pack (the Euro version with the sleeker taillight; don't know if there are additional differences).
And I would love to get rid of, say, 20 of it's ~200kgs (so ~44 of it's 440 lbs).
It is bone stock apart from the aluminium side covers and bar end mirrors.

Now the single most effective way of reducing weight is obviously the exhaust system.
That's easy enough and documented relatively well.
In my case, needing a Euro 4+ and EC approved system and not wanting a 2-in-1, I can still lose around 5kgs with lighter slip-ons.

jacksonracingcomau mentions a plastic tank.
I can only assume the one mentioned is a V7 classic plastic tank or similar? What kind of weight reduction would be possible there?
I guess I'd have to convert it a bit so it fits the V7 III?
This is a controversial subject, but I'm really only concerned with possible weight saving. And if it only saves weight because of it's lesser capacity that's a no go too.

Lighter wheels:
Alloy wheels instead of spoked ones. I already have MG alloys (~4kgs/8lbs lighter than MG wire wheels). Any lighter fitting wheels around that don't cost a fortune?

Seat:
Single seat/ shorter seat
I have yet to find any solid figures on possible savings there.

Side Panels, miscellaneous other (engine) covers, mirrors...
I'll try and weigh the parts as I have already swapped many of them

Dirk_S also suggested:
Aluminium fenders
Certainly true - hopefully we can get some numbers too.

Lithium battery
Indeed saves a bit more than 3kg/7lbs (that's my stock Yuasa 12aH battery vs. the Shorai LFX21 "A" polarity, case type 6)

kev:
Removal of unnecessary bits:
e.g. passenger footrest,...

Cutting stuff from the frame
rear subframe, unused mountig points...


Any input is welcome!
The more detail the better, especially the weight of parts.

Cheers,
D.

Mine started life as 1984 V65 so was quite a bit lighter to start with and doesn’t have a computer abs pump etc etc
Plastic tank is from a “Racer” chrome plated plastic that the chrome fell off of but same as classic
Getting rid of fuel pump and chopping the silly fill tube out gets me 18 usable litres , from 15 as orig, easy 220 miles
Aesthetically it is same shape as later steel ones , mine hasn’t deformed and it only gets E10 here
Seat I used original Le Mans one recovered in leather weighs ounces not pounds
Same seat girlfriend at time rejected 43 years ago on my le mans, I can sit on it all day happily
Lithium battery
Tubeless ( but wheels are heavy, Breva wheels might be much lighter, and  in proper sizes) but I’ll prob lace some 17” inch alloy rims to V7 hubs eventually
Dash went for simple light accurate Acewell jobbie
The rear mudguard is orig and fibreglass front is plastic, obvious places to change on v7
Grabrail went in bin
Front discs are Le Mans with alloy centres
All adds up, look at every part, does it serve any purpose ?

Inside motor , you can nudge the ring gear and timing chain sprockets, list is endless,
Being constricted by rules has you a bit kippered , half the weight you could easily lose is only there for the rules (like abs pump, emissions stuff etc) Starting with an older one probably much easier to comply, if it didn’t have it then it can’t need it now.



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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2021, 07:28:27 AM »
The stock MG wire wheels are about 4kgs heavier than the stock MG alloys, btw.

I forget where you said you got this but I'm at my desk today so I pulled up the original 1TB new model feature sheet from Piaggio.

They went into details on the then new wheels:

They claim the following:




Though that doesn't give actual weight it does sound like they went through a lot of trouble to test the weights and don't seem to think they spokes weigh more from the figures.

I think I would want to directly weight two of them for comparison if I was this serious about weight savings.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2021, 08:15:00 AM »
I think I would want to directly weight two of them for comparison if I was this serious about weight savings.

I just received some used spoked wheels that come stock on the V7 III Special & Anniversario (bare alloy). The parts manuals show they're the stock wheels for the 1st generation Special as well. The original Classic model uses the old rims. If I remember to, I'll hopefully weigh them, maybe within the next week. I also have the V7II Stornello/Special wheels (black) with stainless steel spokes from Buchanan's Spokes. Curious if there'll be a difference in weight between the two sets, but I won't be pulling off the Stornello wheels for at least a month.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2021, 09:23:27 AM »
For me the best weight reduction I did for my V7 was on myself. Losing 20lbs of gut weight made the bike much faster!
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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2021, 09:35:30 AM »
Wheel weight: I don't see a reason why the guys at my Guzzi dealership should lie to me.
But I'm eagerly awaiting Dirk_S' data to be sure.

Cheers,
D.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 09:36:04 AM by Dimitri_Harkov »
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2021, 10:11:54 AM »
Wheel weight: I don't see a reason why the guys at my Guzzi dealership should lie to me.
But I'm eagerly awaiting Dirk_S' data to be sure.

Sometimes dealer employees say something they believe to be true, but they are making assumptions just like the rest of us.

But I'm open to the reality being they are right and Piaggio was wrong or misleading. We don't know, until we know.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2021, 11:43:05 AM »
I initially posted this in the wrong thread related to the V7 Endurance /Racer so deleted it there and reposted here.

As point of reference: 3-4+ years ago I pushed this bone stock 2014 V7R onto the loading dock scale at my place of work just three days after the scale had been calibrated. It had about a 1/4 tank of gas (maybe a hair more). Weight was 396 pounds if I remember right, and I think I do as I posted that on this site on my old account.  Agree with KevinM...the weight savings from a plastic tank aren't worth the well documented (on this site) hassles for the minimal weight saved. If you do go that route stick with ethanol free gas. I deal with that issue with an XR1200.



Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2021, 12:02:30 PM »
Thanks!
I already saw your post in the other thread and worked your findings into the OP here :)

A very nice bike, btw!

Cheers,
D.
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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2021, 12:12:51 PM »

As point of reference: 3-4+ years ago I pushed this bone stock 2014 V7R onto the loading dock scale at my place of work just three days after the scale had been calibrated. It had about a 1/4 tank of gas (maybe a hair more). Weight was 396 pounds if I remember right


 :thumb: :bow:

That weight is amazing.... I should check what MG claimed it was for a racer, but the figures I have on my 2013 Stone are:

Claimed Dry: 395#
Claimed Wet: 443#

Now fuel is ~6/Gallon right - so a filled 5.5G tank SHOULD add about 33# to that dry weight - plus if that dry weight doesn't include oil or battery that could well be the difference between 395 and 443#

But I don't recall the Racer being THAT much lighter.

A Google search suggests that 395# was also the claimed weight of the Racer, but I would have assumed that was DRY?

Hmm ok, so my Owner's Manual CLAIMS 436# "curb weight" (for all 3 variants, Stone/Special/Racer) which is a little suspect.

Ahhh, that 2013 technical features document the dealers got claims all 3 variants were 395# "dry" - BUT that DRY = w/ all fluids, except no fuel.

Interesting.

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Offline Dimitri_Harkov

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2021, 12:34:49 PM »
A sidenote:

Inspired by another thread on the Trofeo MG Fast Endurance kits I paid a visit to the GC Corse Shop and found a lot of stuff off their racing kit there that is probably lighter or at least better and still legal for me to use.

Fibre Glass Side Panels & Fenders, Racing brake disks, PVC 'sliders' (sp?) for the cylinders (to get rid of my crash bars), ...

I will investigate.

Cheers,
D.


2020 V7 III Stone Night Pack

Online Frulk

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2021, 01:35:54 PM »
Kev...I too was surprised by that weight as I remembered the cited weight for the RACER being around 395-396 pounds DRY.  It had the stock battery at the time in it but I believe i might have replaced it with something lighter since then. I did have both tires on the scale. It's large enough to roll on and put the kickstand down. Scale surface is level with concrete loading dock (actually the dock was poured around it).  I know the maint. tech who calibrated it. He works for our company and has several industry certifications so I'm pretty sure it was done right.

But back to the weight of the RACER in a round-about fashion... Years ago I got a screaming deal from a very good friend on a Kendon all metal UTV trailer with a torsion suspension.  Plan was to modify it (wheel chock, cross braces and metal mesh down the middle as that area was open being designed for a UTV) so I could also haul motorcycles on it. Never got around to it because I had a couple of other trailers I made due with. I even put it up for sale on this site back then to anybody that would come out to my location to pick it up for $650 (or there abouts). No takers.  Anyway, finally sold one of the trailers and fast forward to today.  I just finished modifying trailer so it can haul a motorcycle. Overbuilt it so it can comfortably haul the Road King.  I haven't taken the trailer for a test run around the area and plan to do that now with the V7R on-board stopping by work to weigh it one more time just because.  Will have to wait for a few days as snow is projected on and off through the weekend now. But will update the thread with the weight.



Ok…so after posting this response I had an epiphany and seem to remember subtracting for that 1/4 tank of gas which put me right at the OEM quoted dry weight …but still taking it on trailer to weigh it again…sorry about the confusion Kev..Mea Culpa!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 01:43:34 PM by Frulk »

Online Kev m

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2021, 01:48:21 PM »
Ok…so after posting this response I had an epiphany and seem to remember subtracting for that 1/4 tank of gas which put me right at the OEM quoted dry weight …but still taking it on trailer to weigh it again…sorry about the confusion Kev..Mea Culpa!

Ha ha - still great info!  :thumb:
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Offline 9fingers

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Re: V7 weight reduction
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2021, 01:59:33 PM »
I do get the desire to make the bike lighter......I have done it to some of my old trials bikes. But on your V7, after doing the pipes and the battery, if you want to make it feel lighter go for some longer rear shocks, 360 or 370mm and get AL bodied ones and save a few pounds there. Heck, I ADDED weight to mine with the Givi engine guards and the center stand. And the Hagon Nitro shocks weigh MORE than the originals! But the bike still steers quicker and feels lighter and more lively. Changing the tank is a bad idea.
Scott
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