Dry vs Wet Clutch?

[swordds]

I have placed a down payment on a 2016 V7-II Stone that should arrive near the end of December or early January but I have some questions regarding how to drive the bike when it arrives.
    - my previous bikes have all had wet clutches.  Standard practice with a wet clutch (at least for me) is to intentionally let it slip when driving slowly and to leave the bike in 1st gear with the clutch disengaged, my left foot on the ground and my right foot on the rear brake pedal while waiting at a stop light, even if waiting for several minutes.  No problem with a wet clutch but will this be hard on a dry clutch?  Do you guys leave the bike in neutral with your right foot on the ground so you can quickly shift into first when the light changes or do you just hold in the clutch lever?
     - why do they call it a V7 Stone?  We're they "stoned" when they were trying to think of a name or does stone mean something in Italian?  And what does the "7" infer?

[Triple Jim]

Do you guys leave the bike in neutral with your right foot on the ground so you can quickly shift into first when the light changes...?

That's what I usually do.  The "7" is a simplification of about 750cc. 

Welcome to the forum!

[oldbike54]

 Stone refers to a non gloss paint , although my buddy's stone is shiny , so yes , maybe they were stoned 

  Dusty

[Kiwi_Roy]

That's what I usually do.  The "7" is a simplification of about 750cc. 

Welcome to the forum!

Me too
Always to one side of the car in front so I don't end up as meat in a sandwich.

Welcome to the forum, you don't have to be crazy but it helps.

[Cam3512]

Sometimes I get really wild and put TWO feet down.  But I'm crazy like that.

[Silver Goose]

Swordds, Welcome to the group and congrats on getting your V7.

I do not hold the clutch in while waiting for a light.  Any time I stop for more tan a few seconds I put the bike in neutral and release the clutch. The reasoning behind the statement and actions is simple. The clutch release bearing(throw out bearing) is very small and highly loaded. In an area of limited cooling, high loads and little or no lubrication, keeping the pressure on is not good. I know that some will jump up and say they have been holding in the clutch for fifty years, I say, OK. In a wet clutch arrangement at least there is some oil to help lube the bearing, but the bearing is working for no good reason, why do it? If you think cars behind you will run over you forget it you can out run any of them and if you watch the lights you can put the bike into gear a few seconds before the light changes.

Good luck, be safe.

[pyoungbl]

The V7 name goes back to earlier, and very successful, small block machines.  Thus the reference is similar to the way the 1400 cc bikes are named California or Le Mans, both are historic Guzzi names.  The bikes are not 700 cc, nor are the new V9 bikes 900 cc.  In fact, the Norge 1200 and Stelvio 1200 are not actually 1200cc...you gotta be flexible.  Have another glass of wine.

Peter Y.

[Wayne Orwig]

No problem with a wet clutch but will this be hard on a dry clutch? 

Just drive it. There is little difference. Well, wet clutches are easy to damage if you use the wrong lube. Not an issue with a dry clutch.

[Triple Jim]

To me, the biggest difference is dry clutches are not great for high throttle, high RPM clutch-slipping starts from a dead stop, as in drag racing type starts.  At least it's not good for the longevity of the plates.  Oh, and they have a cool jingly clinky sound when the engine is running and you disengage them.

[lucky phil]

Standard practice with a wet clutch (at least for me) is to intentionally let it slip when driving slowly and to leave the bike in 1st gear with the clutch disengaged, my left foot on the ground and my right foot on the rear brake pedal while waiting at a stop light, even if waiting for several minutes.  No problem with a wet clutch but will this be hard on a dry clutch?     

Sorry to burst your bubble, but....YES problem for a wet clutch or any clutch.
You shouldnt sit at a standstill with ANY clutch wet or dry for extended periods of time. All you are doing is glazing up the clutch friction plates,heating up the steel plates and loading up the throwout bearing and gearbox input shaft bearing and on a wet clutch heating up and putting friction material into the oil.
Any time you have the clutch disengaged for anything other than selecting gears or smoothing out the drive while riding slowly in traffic is a negative. Obviously the latter isnt exactly great but its less harmfull than bunny hopping along.
Any clutch is at its happiest when fully engaged.
Ciao

     

[fotoguzzi]

The V7 name goes back to earlier, and very successful, small block machines.  Thus the reference is similar to the way the 1400 cc bikes are named California or Le Mans, both are historic Guzzi names.  The bikes are not 700 cc, nor are the new V9 bikes 900 cc.  In fact, the Norge 1200 and Stelvio 1200 are not actually 1200cc...you gotta be flexible.  Have another glass of wine.

Peter Y.

UMm no, the V7 Sport was a Big Block.

[Aaron D.]

The original V7 was a loop frame. 1966.

[canuguzzi]

Way over thought. At a stop light, leaving the bike in gear and the clutch level in isn't going to hurt a darn thing.

Its a clutch. Ride the bike and enjoy it. There is no different way to ride any MG than any other bike. The less time you spend wondering if this or that is different the more fun you'll have.

BTW, welcome.

[rocker59]

    - my previous bikes have all had wet clutches.  Standard practice with a wet clutch (at least for me) is to intentionally let it slip when driving slowly and to leave the bike in 1st gear with the clutch disengaged, my left foot on the ground and my right foot on the rear brake pedal while waiting at a stop light, even if waiting for several minutes. No problem with a wet clutch but will this be hard on a dry clutch?  Do you guys leave the bike in neutral with your right foot on the ground so you can quickly shift into first when the light changes or do you just hold in the clutch lever?
     

That's the way I ride my dry-clutch Guzzis.

I only go into neutral if it's a reeeaally long wait.  Otherwise, I like to be in gear so I can move ASAP.

My tall-geared Sport 1100 requires slipping the clutch in 1st gear when moving at a walking pace.  I've done it for years with no ill effects.

That being said, the V7 is geared pretty low.  For a Guzzi, anyway.  My V7 Special will idle smoothly around at 1500 rpm in 1st gear.  My sporty Guzzis have never been so forgiving at a walking pace.

[oldbike54]

The original V7 was a loop frame. 1966.

 Wasn't that original loop called a V700 ?

  Dusty

[Aaron D.]

My V700 had a V7 decal.

[lucky phil]

Way over thought. At a stop light, leaving the bike in gear and the clutch level in isn't going to hurt a darn thing.

Hard to argue with that kind of enlightening technical input.
Ciao

[Vasco DG]

Depending on a host of factors damage may be more likely to occur in these sorts of scenarios but at the end of the day it's a clutch, wet or dry, designed to work in an everyday road environment.

While I wouldn't recommend sitting at lights with the clutch pulled in any more than I would recommend, (On bikes that you can do this on.) setting the idle speed as low as it will go because it "Sounds cool!" But at the end of the day unless you're a completely witless fuquetard just make sure your bike is well set up and ride it.

Pete

[Ighani]

Swordds, I do the same thing at stops. I don't care so much about the clutch's health as I do my health. Being in gear and having both hands on the controls gives me chance to get out of the way quick when I realize the SUV coming up behind me isn't gonna stop in time. And as Kiwi Roy says, leave an escape path when stopped.

[rocker59]

Swordds, I do the same thing at stops. I don't care so much about the clutch's health as I do my health. Being in gear and having both hands on the controls gives me chance to get out of the way quick when I realize the SUV coming up behind me isn't gonna stop in time. And as Kiwi Roy says, leave an escape path when stopped.

 :1:

[Rough Edge racing]

 What I know about wet clutches from racing; A dry clutch can transmit about 30 percent more power without slipping than the same type wet clutch. Clutch slip on modified old Birt bikes is a problem. my racer uses cheap Taiwan clutch plates running in a few ounces a ATF and works better the other guys with fancy wet clutches.   Many bikes have wet clutches because the clutch is contained in the primary drive section with gears or chains needing lubrication.
 On old Brit bikes due to transmission design, the rider will always pull in the clutch and kick the bike over to free the wet clutch plates before starting the engine. I don't sit at traffic lights with by manual shift  vehicles or bikes with the clutch disengaged...But... ..At busy intersections I do leave the bike in gear just in case I need to get out of the way in a hurry...

[ohiorider]

Dry clutches tend to be used on bikes with the crankshaft in line with the frame (Guzzi and older BMW Boxer twins .... although new water-cooled BMW twins use a multiplate wet clutch mounted on front of engine.) I don't drag race my bikes, or do burn outs, so my dry clutches last a long time.  Unfortunately, what has killed two of my Beemer dry clutches is that they didn't stay dry.  The engine rear main seal failed on both bikes, oil saturated the clutch plate, and the clutch began to slip, requiring replacement.  This of course meant removing the swingarm and transmission to access the clutch .... a rather lengthy job.

This vs a multi plate wet clutch which is (a) designed to be run in oil, and (b) if it fails, is easily accessed (usually) by removing the cover on either the right or left side of the engine.

As long as the dry plate clutch doesn't fail, I'm ok with it.  However, when/if it fails, swingarm and tranny must be removed, access provided by 'crabbing' the frame (at least on newer oilhead Beemers.) Don't know from experience if Guzzi frames can be crabbed.

[redrider]

I have bikes with both and one with a dry running in an oil lubed primary(Norton with all metal plates, sintered bronze and steel) All of them stay in gear when stopped while watching the rear for idiots. Waiting for the train with traffic stacked up behind and we are in neutral. So the situation constantly changes but the only thing constant is the lack of proper care and adjustment. THAT will greatly affect your clutch. FWIW, I replaced the Mille clutch at 140K. Rear main seal wept and since I was in there...

[oldbike54]

 Don't know from experience if Guzzi frames can be crabbed.

 Crabbing a Tonti frame makes ME crabby 

  Dusty

[bpreynolds]

I have placed a down payment on a 2016 V7-II Stone that should arrive near the end of December or early January but I have some questions regarding how to drive the bike when it arrives.
    - my previous bikes have all had wet clutches.  Standard practice with a wet clutch (at least for me) is to intentionally let it slip when driving slowly and to leave the bike in 1st gear with the clutch disengaged, my left foot on the ground and my right foot on the rear brake pedal while waiting at a stop light, even if waiting for several minutes.  No problem with a wet clutch but will this be hard on a dry clutch?  Do you guys leave the bike in neutral with your right foot on the ground so you can quickly shift into first when the light changes or do you just hold in the clutch lever?
     - why do they call it a V7 Stone?  We're they "stoned" when they were trying to think of a name or does stone mean something in Italian?  And what does the "7" infer?

Swordds, first let me congratulate you here on obtaining a certainly wonderful, gorgeous motorcycle.  I love my V7 like no other ride ever and I'm sure yours will be that much better even.

Second and finally, welcome to the board.  By opening your first post with a mechanical non-issue question, I do fear you may already have too much in common with the geezers on here and will henceforth be a lifetime wg member.   

[oldbike54]

                                                       "Geezers ?"

  Come on Bipper , no geezers ... oh never mind , even I am not capable of that much bull poopie 

  Dusty

 

[drums4money]

A clutch that is dry when it should be wet will present issues. 
A clutch that is wet when it should be dry will cause similar concern. 

I've always thought that a clutch is best when it's not being actuated.

[bpreynolds]

                                                       "Geezers ?"

  Come on Bipper , no geezers ... oh never mind , even I am not capable of that much bull poopie 

  Dusty

Term of affection, Dusty.  Term of affection. 

[56Pan]

I've been riding for almost 50 years and have never been in a situation at a light where I had to "get out of the way quick."  Maybe I've just been lucky.  I was seriously schooled by my father, however, about breaking clutch cables.  You don't want to be stopped, in gear, if that happens (and it did to him on an old Goldstar).  I've had the clutch cable on my new V7 stretch while I was in heavy traffic on a hot day - that's no fun either.  I sit in neutral at lights and try to use the clutch as little as possible.  But that's just me.

Agree big time.  Definitely do not want a clutch engaging in 1st at a redlight.  BTDT, got the T-shirt. Damn near got me killed.

[canuguzzi]

If you have enough time to worry about your clutch cable snapping at a stop light, you have spent too much time worrying and not enough time enjoying riding.

The short time you might spend at a stop light or stop sign isn't going to make one bit of difference, it the cable snaps or the clutch fails, it was going to do it anyway.

If your cable snaps and you launch into the intersection, obviously you are in lala land and not paying attention.

The clutch was created and designed to be used. Dragging or slipping the clutch excessively is harmful to them, like anything, the operative function here is excessive.

A lot more people get hit from behind at stops than people have clutch cables snap at stop signs or lights.

Anyone worried about a clutch cable snapping or the clutch wearing out hasn't ridden where steep hills exist. Most likely, they've never ridden two up and loaded or been in heavy traffic.

You can buy auto tranny motorcycles, for the clutch operation challenged.

If you want to worry about something, that clunck you hear when putting the trans in gear because you wanted to save your clutch or its cable was the sound of metal hitting metal.

Clutches, like brakes, are wearable items, one day you might have to repair or replace it. Before that time, you will have spent many times that amount changing oil and filters unless you ride very infrequently so as not to get the oil and filter dirty.

Its a clutch not a chastity belt.