Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: GeorgiaGuzzi on March 31, 2020, 11:28:53 PM

Title: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: GeorgiaGuzzi on March 31, 2020, 11:28:53 PM
So, as Iíve dug into my Quota, Iíve discovered that someone is the previous ownership/mechanic history was a fan of black rtv gasket maker instead of using gaskets. When I took my intakes off they had no gaskets, just black rtv. Ditto my crankcase breather tube. As I was looking at my crankcase seal cover(?) it looks like I can see it around the perimeter. Iíll attach a photo. I never have liked to use the stuff INSTEAD of proper gaskets. At most Iíll smear some on the edge of a gasket to help seal but thatís the extent of it. Am I being too picky? Is it okay to use or should I pull suspect covers to install real gaskets? Iím a novice at Guzzís.

Thanks, Robert
(https://i.ibb.co/c25FV8Z/EAF6200-A-7492-4-CD5-8534-DA343-B7-DCF0-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c25FV8Z)
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on March 31, 2020, 11:41:54 PM
I agree with you but I have used it on one side of a gasket.
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: John A on March 31, 2020, 11:43:50 PM
No, donít use that crap.  The two lower bolts on the main seal cover do get some sealant because they are open to the crankcase but I wouldnít use silicone.
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Tom H on April 01, 2020, 12:55:32 AM
I recently acquired an engine that I'm going through. Somebody decided that since they didn't have the O rings for the rocker block to head they would RTV it. I don't know if this engine was ever started after that, I hope not because the oil ports in the head and rocker block were clogged with RTV.

Tom
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Charles in Lake Charles on April 01, 2020, 06:53:51 AM
I've had good luck with Permatex, The Right Stuff.
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: larrys on April 01, 2020, 07:10:41 AM
My 350 Chevy boat engine blew out the valley gaskets at the front and rear of the intake manifold. SB Chevys can be pressure cookers when hopped up. Good crankcase venting is important. The marine mechanics told me to use Permatex black silicone gasket maker instead of the cork or neoprene gaskets. No problems since. It does have it's applications. I don't think I'd ever use it instead of an O-ring. YMMV.
Larry
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Lannis on April 01, 2020, 08:24:52 AM
For flat metal flange-to-flange seals (primary covers, older engine valve covers, etc), I do like all the equipment manufacturers do and use an anaerobic sealer like LocTite 515 or 518 directly on the surfaces, instead of a paper gasket.   Seals great, won't break loose and get into oil passages, easy to take apart and clean.   I buy it at the local Caterpillar dealer.   It's what they use in their shop.

But so much motorcycle stuff uses specific joint sealers like o-rings, copper head gaskets, thick composite gaskets designed to maintain spacing, etc that you don't get the opportunity to use the anaerobic sealer a lot these days.

Lannis
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 01, 2020, 08:58:56 AM
I had a shop do warranty work on my EV. They applied so much RTV to the front timing chain cover, that is was dripping on the floor. Later I found bits floating in the pan. A-holes.
I hate that stuff.
I seldom use it. Though I admit, on the rear main bearing cover you are looking at, I wipe a thin layer over the paper gasket. I have seen a few of those leak, and I do NOT want to go back in there if I can help it. And as mentioned, the two lower bolts require a sealant.

Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 01, 2020, 09:13:26 AM
I never use RTV anywhere on the engine, transmission or rear drive. Sign of a pi$$ poor job IMO. The only sealers I use on the drivetrain are Hondabond 4 and Permatex Super 300 (or Permatex Aviation which is basically the same thing).
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: GeorgiaGuzzi on April 01, 2020, 10:13:54 AM
Thanks everyone for your input! I really appreciate it and now know how to proceed. 😎
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 01, 2020, 10:37:28 AM
Haven't read through all the posts, or used on a Guzzi motor (yet), but having rebuilt several Porsche and VW Air cooled motors, we use Curil K2 to seal the engine cases metal on metal, no gaskets. Also use Curil T for cyl bases to case, and all areas with gaskets. NO leaks, ever (yet). For sealing threaded components Loctite 565.  All remain soft and wipe off/cleanup with mineral spirits on disassembly.  I use it on all surfaces now, with or without a gasket, and will not use RTV ever again.
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: John A on April 01, 2020, 11:10:36 AM
For flat metal flange-to-flange seals (primary covers, older engine valve covers, etc), I do like all the equipment manufacturers do and use an anaerobic sealer like LocTite 515 or 518 directly on the surfaces, instead of a paper gasket.   Seals great, won't break loose and get into oil passages, easy to take apart and clean.   I buy it at the local Caterpillar dealer.   It's what they use in their shop.

But so much motorcycle stuff uses specific joint sealers like o-rings, copper head gaskets, thick composite gaskets designed to maintain spacing, etc that you don't get the opportunity to use the anaerobic sealer a lot these days.

Lannis



Iíve used Loctite 515 on Guzzi cylinder bases instead of a base gasket when setting the squish on the combustion chamber with very good results.  The secret is to degrease the surface as if you were going to paint.  Mike Rich of Mike Rich Motorsport doesnít like it because because then there is no cushion on the cylinder but Iíve had good results  lasting hundreds of thousands of miles
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: Moparnut72 on April 01, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
When I worked on radial aircraft engines we used Permatex Ultra Copper on almost every gasket. We smeared a very thin coat with a finger on both sides of the gasket. We hardly ever had a leak and if we did it was usually on a valve cover and that we be because it didn't get resurfaced properly. An advantage of the Ultra Copper was that it would come apart easily down the road. On an outboard I was working on prior to winter get shelved but I pulled it out last week and had to pull the powerhead last week. It came right apart with the gasket intact. Good stuff.
kk
Title: Re: RTV gasket maker instead of gaskets
Post by: MMRanch on April 01, 2020, 08:10:23 PM
GeorgiaGuzzi

Its not an "O Ring" ,

Its not a "Head Gasket"

Its not an "Exaust Gasket"

But it is everything else !  Apply it on both sides.  Let it set for a while between application and assembly , don't tighten till it sets for an hour either,  so it all don't squish out , its the best gasket you can ever have its a perfect fit ! 

On applications like the top cam cover where the cam bearings are the aluminum halves that hold the cam there IS NO GASKET  .    I like the ultra Gray , its full bodied and it don't show-up on aluminum so much.