Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wirespokes on November 19, 2016, 02:05:49 PM

Title: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 19, 2016, 02:05:49 PM
I've come to the conclusion after five thousand miles this clutch (fairly new) installed by a PO close to 15 years ago isn't going to get any better. When warm, there's no feathering it. It's really hard on the driveline as is, besides being difficult to control. It's got the deeper 4mm hub (looking at the receipt). Also confirming it's got the deeper hub, the replaced shallow hub and old discs are in the box of parts I got with the bike.

So I'm looking at replacing clutch discs.

I'm guessing the Sureflex is what I've got now, so don't want another! No thank you!!!

Moto International says the stock Guzzi clutch disc is the only one they'll stand by, but at close to $100 each that's looking a bit spendy. Is that really the only way to go? Have you tried anything else and gotten good mileage out of it?

Let me know what's worked for you and a good place to get it.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: guzzista on November 19, 2016, 02:20:23 PM
Lots of folks on this forum are happy with the SD TEC clutch discs.  Other choice that has worked well for me are the ones from Mark Etheridge at Guzzi Classics in SoCal. http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165    http://www.motoguzziclassics.com/MGCParts2.asp
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 19, 2016, 02:21:12 PM
Is that why you weren't at breakfast?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 19, 2016, 02:51:22 PM
Lots of folks on this forum are happy with the SD TEC clutch discs.  Other choice that has worked well for me are the ones from Mark Etheridge at Guzzi Classics in SoCal. http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165    http://www.motoguzziclassics.com/MGCParts2.asp

^^ This. I'm not sure Mark is having clutch plates relined any more though. I've been using the SD-TEC plates on all of my customer's bikes and will be replacing "Barney's" grabby Sureflex with them soon also. 
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: pehayes on November 19, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
Might not be the plates.  You'll need a good inspection on the internal splines of the flywheel perimeter.  Might start searching for a good used flywheel on EBAY.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on November 19, 2016, 04:09:28 PM
I have installed Sureflex plates. Not again. They tend to be too grabby.
I have installed factory plates. I would rather not. I once had a factory plate in a fairly new bike crack. I replaced that with factory plates, which also cracked not long after. Too much work to mess with that kind of crap.

Lately I have used these in the bikes I have worked on.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165

They do have one oddity. They must have a bit of a rough surface, so they wear down a LOT in the first 200-300 miles. Once they bed in, they stop wearing and they have a good feel.

Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 19, 2016, 11:41:50 PM
No, Dave, that's not why I wasn't there. It was because I'd stayed up late working on the 'new' guzzi I just got. You guys warned me, but did I listen??? Well, yeah, but you didn't say how fast these things can multiply!

The new one has records almost back to when it was new. The second real owner in 96 took photos of it for the photo album, and the goofy fork brace was on it back then. It's actually a decent billet fork brace (not sure if one is needed, but since I have it...) decided to make it right yesterday afternoon. The billet brace had been added on top of the fender mount and looked goofy as hell. The fender mount, as it turns out, is a thin piece of aluminum with rivet-like aluminum bolts holding on the fender. The nuts had no flats and when grasped with vice grips, the whole thing turned. That was the first stumbling block. After a bit of head scratching, got out the dremel and ground off the nuts and that got it all apart.

The next problem was more difficult, and what took so long. The new fork brace had mounting holes, first off, in a non metric size. But more importantly, the threaded holes went straight up and down, rather than angling in to the fender so that the nuts could bottom on a flat surface. So I had to make angled washers. I can do quite a lot with my little HF lathe, but it can take a while sometimes. And then the studs didn't want to fit the holes in the fender so had to adjust things there a little. The next problem was that the brace was made to receive a flat piece of fender, not arced. So out came the dremel again to remove enough material so the fender tucked in there nicely with a snug fit. Must have spent a couple hours on that step alone. I must have started about three or four and didn't finish till 11. No dinner, nothing! Didn't wake up till 9:30 - so missed the breakfast entirely!

I see you've mounted the new seat. I would have liked to have seen what you did to make that happen.

If I had gotten up early enough, I'd have ridden the 'new' bike. It's a stunner. Or the T3, or any number of beemers. No shortage of bikes to ride! The T3 runs and is ride-able, but between the chrome bores and the clutch, it's probably best fixing those issues before putting more miles on it.

I guess I'll have to check into the SD clutch plates. They certainly are more reasonably priced. Any ideas of longevity? What's the longest one has gone at this point?

I don't expect to see flywheel damage, but you never know. With the way this thing grabs, who knows what harm it's done? And I don't know if the shop that replaced it back in 2002 eyeballed the flywheel. Anyone ever have a flywheel resurfaced?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 20, 2016, 11:35:41 AM
The pictures of the new bike aren't loading!

As for the seat it's just shoved on.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 20, 2016, 11:28:57 PM
I'm not great on pix - but I should take some and figure out how to post them. Been busy enough making things right on it and trying to get work done. And then, when the weather is half ways decent, have to get in saddle time. It's a bitch, but you do what you gotta do.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Matteo on November 21, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
For some reason my old I pad (first issue) was unable to post photos. My wife recently got me a new one and the difference is amazing.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cXg5Aa/IMG_0258.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cXg5Aa)
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: John A on November 21, 2016, 08:09:44 AM
The last time I used a Sureflex clutch, it was for a friend. He was having trouble with it and never told me but bad mouthed me to others. I thought he was a friend and I made the mistake of feigning anger on a message I left on his phone. As a caution if you have problems with someone's work, by all means tell them. I believe most people are honest and would make a repair right if it wasn't. Rant over, I don't like Sureflex clutch discs either.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: 5154guzzi on November 21, 2016, 10:35:32 AM
Another thing to check,   I had a Lemans 1000 with a recent clutch, that was real grabby. It turned out the rear end  pinion gear bolts had backed off.  The rear end would pogo as the clutch was released.     The SD Tec clutch is the way to go, if you need new plates.

 Bill
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 21, 2016, 11:35:50 AM
I'm not great on pix - but I should take some and figure out how to post them. Been busy enough making things right on it and trying to get work done. And then, when the weather is half ways decent, have to get in saddle time. It's a bitch, but you do what you gotta do.

Ok, can you at least tell us what bike it is?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 21, 2016, 12:52:48 PM
From his ADV Rider posts, I'm guessing a '77 T3?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 21, 2016, 01:30:10 PM
From his ADV Rider posts, I'm guessing a '77 T3?

So there's a second one?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 22, 2016, 12:04:33 AM
No - it's not another T3. It's a low miles, extremely well taken care of 1987 LeMans. That swooped up rear end has never been a favorite of mine, but the more I ride the bike, the less it bugs me. It's got the 18" front wheel not the 16, Ohlins rear shocks and a Corbin. I wasn't sure I'd like the way-forward clip-ons and the rear-set pegs, but I'm finding it quite comfortable. The steering feels a little odd - maybe it's the clip-ons angling from in front of the fork tubes. As with any new bike, I'm sorting things out and setting things right. Today it was getting the right side petcock to not seep and replacing the rear gas tank grommet where it sets down on the knobbed pin that holds it. The original grommet was badly split and was lucky to find a hardware store that carried one comparable. The first hardware store six miles to the west didn't have it, but found it at the one 8 miles to the east of me. I'll know better next time which to try first.

I'll try to get some pix up of the bike. It's my loudest one yet... I think it's got Bubs.

5154guzzi - With a scenario like backed-out bolts, it would have misbehaved all the time, not just when warmed up. Right? That's what makes me feel it's the Sureflex - that's been part of the description in the cases I've heard.

John A - I totally agree with you. It's best for all concerned to keep things in the open and deal with the truth. Not always easy, and sometimes quite an adventure, but it can be surprising how things turn out when dealing with life that way - not always what you'd think. I'm not sure why you brought this up - mind explaining? In my case, I'm doing a bit of detective work looking back through the records and see that the clutch hub was replaced with the deeper 4mm version. And this was done in about 2002 as I recall. There's an MG or Harpers part number on the receipt, but don't know if that will tell me if it's a Surflex or what. I'm sure not blaming anyone - it sounds like Guzzis had a problem with clutches for a while - and my bike's one of them. I haven't pulled one of these apart, so it'll be a learning experience - shouldn't be too tough, but you know how it is the first time around. And it's always longer the first time with a new bike fixing whatever shows up. Hope the front engine bolt isn't frozen in. Then again, I shouldn't have to remove it if it won't come.

I'm pretty sure the bike sat quite a bit, so wondered if some corrosion had built up on the splines, and that was the reason for the grabbiness. Maybe it is, but still that doesn't explain why it works ok when cold, but not when hot.

Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: John A on November 22, 2016, 07:29:14 AM
I just brought it up because it was the last clutch job I did and it went wrong. That particular bike, a 98EV, had its clutch replaced previously. The owner supplied the new discs and floater. When I took it apart the discs in it were Sureflex. The same as the new ones. What I realized after it was done was that it had an alignment problem between the clutch and gearbox that caused short clutch life. I learned from Bob Nolan ( rip) how to fix that but I had started treating the customer as a brother and it evidently offended him so he quit talking to me but went behind my back and bad mouthed me. That's too bad, I would have enjoyed fixing it and would have done it free.  I consider Surflex discs light duty because of my own experience with them.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 22, 2016, 09:33:09 AM
Two brands of friction plates that I never use and when I find them in a Guzzi, go right into the recycling bin: Sureflex and Barnett. The former not only have issues with being extremely "grabby", but also have spline design issues. The latter seem to be okay friction material wise, but the splined center is made out three pieces of stamped steel riveted together and they tend to wear out hubs very quickly.

Wirespokes: the Sureflex plates in my '71 Ambassador are exactly as you describe: fine when cold, super grabby when hot.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: John A on November 22, 2016, 10:19:39 AM
I agree with Charlie, my experience with the clutch discs is the same. took a while to get it thru my thick head except for the Barnett I just looked at them and determined they were junk. I like their springs though.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: 5154guzzi on November 22, 2016, 11:03:36 AM
Wirespokes,   The lemans was grabby on takeoff all the time, hot or cold.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 22, 2016, 01:31:32 PM
No - it's not another T3. It's a low miles, extremely well taken care of 1987 LeMans. That swooped up rear end has never been a favorite of mine, but the more I ride the bike, the less it bugs me. It's got the 18" front wheel not the 16, Ohlins rear shocks and a Corbin. I wasn't sure I'd like the way-forward clip-ons and the rear-set pegs, but I'm finding it quite comfortable. The steering feels a little odd - maybe it's the clip-ons angling from in front of the fork tubes. As with any new bike, I'm sorting things out and setting things right. Today it was getting the right side petcock to not seep and replacing the rear gas tank grommet where it sets down on the knobbed pin that holds it. The original grommet was badly split and was lucky to find a hardware store that carried one comparable. The first hardware store six miles to the west didn't have it, but found it at the one 8 miles to the east of me. I'll know better next time which to try first.

I'm actually offended you didn't invite me over to drool on your new toy.  :grin:
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Matteo on November 22, 2016, 01:39:28 PM
I'm actually offended you didn't invite me over to drool on your new toy.  :grin:
And to first read about it on the forum :thewife:
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 23, 2016, 04:01:57 AM
Thanks for confirming what I suspected. I see some SD discs in my future.

I guess my next question is what to watch out for doing this job. I've got to either pull the rear frame bolts and tilt the engine down, or remove both and drop everything out the bottom. Remove the mufflers. Undo the UJoint. Lift the back end of the bike. Unbolt the transmission.

It's probably a half hour's work, but being the first time with Guzzis and this one, it'll probably be more like two or three. Sound reasonable? Hope the front bolt isn't frozen.

I've never used an alignment tool on the airhead clutches when I've replaced them. Is it critical with this one? Are longer fasteners needed to relieve the pressure plate tension?

Any fasteners I dare not re-use? U-Joint bolts? Pressure plate bolts? 

Matt, Dave - I know, I wanted to go to the breakfast and pop it on you there. Sorry. But I missed that. And I've been meaning to make it to Matt's since he got back, but have been busy with work. Would it be possible to join up with you two somewhere on Friday? Saturday I've got stuff going, and will be gone the week after that. So it's either Tomorrow (Wednesday or Friday). Hope I can make it up to you guys. :sad:
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 23, 2016, 09:15:42 AM
I've never used an alignment tool on the airhead clutches when I've replaced them. Is it critical with this one? Are longer fasteners needed to relieve the pressure plate tension?

Any fasteners I dare not re-use? U-Joint bolts? Pressure plate bolts? 

IMO, it is critical to use an alignment tool, otherwise the hub may not slide into the plate splines, plus it makes assembly a whole lot easier and eliminates the possibility of damaging anything. An alignment tool can be something as simple as an old hub with spacer in the center, a bolt and washer. That's what I use.

(http://www.antietamclassiccycle.com/cams_eldo/Cam_s_project_003.JPG)

There are no u-joint bolts, unlike an Airhead. I don't reuse "ring gear/clutch cover" bolts, nor flywheel bolts (if you have that off).
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: John A on November 23, 2016, 10:44:09 AM
seal the rear cam cover with your favorite two part epoxy or something like that. just clean it well and seal it, but you do have to remove the flywheel. new bolts should be used.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Matteo on November 23, 2016, 10:58:30 AM
Thanks for confirming what I suspected. I see some SD discs in my future.

I guess my next question is what to watch out for doing this job. I've got to either pull the rear frame bolts and tilt the engine down, or remove both and drop everything out the bottom. Remove the mufflers. Undo the UJoint. Lift the back end of the bike. Unbolt the transmission.

It's probably a half hour's work, but being the first time with Guzzis and this one, it'll probably be more like two or three. Sound reasonable? Hope the front bolt isn't frozen.

I've never used an alignment tool on the airhead clutches when I've replaced them. Is it critical with this one? Are longer fasteners needed to relieve the pressure plate tension?

Any fasteners I dare not re-use? U-Joint bolts? Pressure plate bolts? 

Matt, Dave - I know, I wanted to go to the breakfast and pop it on you there. Sorry. But I missed that. And I've been meaning to make it to Matt's since he got back, but have been busy with work. Would it be possible to join up with you two somewhere on Friday? Saturday I've got stuff going, and will be gone the week after that. So it's either Tomorrow (Wednesday or Friday). Hope I can make it up to you guys. :sad:
Today or Friday works, I have an alignment tool if you need it.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 23, 2016, 11:18:24 AM
I don't plan on removing the flywheel (unless I have to), but that's interesting data about the cam cover. I've never sealed a cover with epoxy before, so that sounds a bit extreme. What's the story there???

I guess with two clutch plates it's a bit trickier and more important to get them aligned. Makes sense to me.

Thanks for the offer Matt, I accept! Now I need to make the time (and space) to tear into it and see what I've got.

I've gotten an offer to buy two new SD discs, almost new unmarked flywheel, intermediate plate and good 4mm hub for $250. Not sure if I'll need a flywheel, but with the way this thing has been acting up, I'm afraid there's going to be some serious wear. I'm easy on clutches, but this one has fought me for 5K now and isn't letting up. It would be nice to have the parts here and ready to go, but on the one hand if I have only discs and need a flywheel, I'll be waiting. But if I jump on the complete clutch package and only need the discs, I'll have spent a bunch more than necessary when the funds aren't exactly available. Problems problems life's a bitch and then...
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 23, 2016, 11:32:32 AM
I don't plan on removing the flywheel (unless I have to), but that's interesting data about the cam cover. I've never sealed a cover with epoxy before, so that sounds a bit extreme. What's the story there???

I've gotten an offer to buy two new SD discs, almost new unmarked flywheel, intermediate plate and good 4mm hub for $250. Not sure if I'll need a flywheel, but with the way this thing has been acting up, I'm afraid there's going to be some serious wear. I'm easy on clutches, but this one has fought me for 5K now and isn't letting up. It would be nice to have the parts here and ready to go, but on the one hand if I have only discs and need a flywheel, I'll be waiting. But if I jump on the complete clutch package and only need the discs, I'll have spent a bunch more than necessary when the funds aren't exactly available. Problems problems life's a bitch and then...

There have been instances where the cam plug in the bellhousing area has been found to leak. I JB Weld every job that I'm that deep into. In fact, I go even farther - replace the rear main seal, rear main bearing flange gasket, breather pipe gasket, seal the lower two bolts of the main bearing flange and the banjo bolt of the oil return line.

A few things to consider about the flywheel: is the replacement one the same weight as your original? Are the timing marks in the correct place? It's quite rare to need a replacement flywheel IMO.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 23, 2016, 11:44:44 AM
Thanks, Charlie! That's good news about the flywheel. I was told that there's a possibility the teeth are notchy, in which case it would need to be replaced. Nice to know that's a rare occurrence.

Are you suggesting I pull the flywheel and seal all that up?

Not sure about the weight of the flywheel offered, but it only has the TDC marks, I believe.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 23, 2016, 12:13:42 PM
Thanks, Charlie! That's good news about the flywheel. I was told that there's a possibility the teeth are notchy, in which case it would need to be replaced. Nice to know that's a rare occurrence.

Are you suggesting I pull the flywheel and seal all that up?

Not sure about the weight of the flywheel offered, but it only has the TDC marks, I believe.

There is always the possibility of notched teeth in the flywheel, but in my experience it's not nearly as common as a notched hub. I've only replaced 2 flywheels on the 20? or so clutch jobs I've done.

I only want to go in there once and be done with it, so I do everything. If there's no sign of leakage, then you may be good to go.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 23, 2016, 12:31:05 PM
As Charlie sez: it's a "while you're there" job. If you don't do it, something will start leaking in about 500 miles after you put it back together.  :smiley: If you do it, nothing would have *ever* leaked.. and it was a complete waste of time and a (very) few bucks.
Pay attention to Charlie..
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 23, 2016, 12:37:13 PM
Quote
I guess my next question is what to watch out for doing this job. I've got to either pull the rear frame bolts and tilt the engine down, or remove both and drop everything out the bottom. Remove the mufflers. Undo the UJoint. Lift the back end of the bike. Unbolt the transmission.

It's probably a half hour's work, but being the first time with Guzzis and this one, it'll probably be more like two or three. Sound reasonable? Hope the front bolt isn't frozen.

Search for "Crabbing the frame" by Pete Roper, either here or on thisoldtractor.com. Two or Three sounds more like it the first time you do it.
Edit:
Here ya go..
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/access-gearbox-clutch-big-twin-en-2004-07-04.pdf
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 23, 2016, 07:16:56 PM
Thanks for the link, Chuck! That helps a lot.

I've got one of those motorcycle jacks with the two long padded rails. That ought to make the job easier. But I might use a jackstand or two as well.

Wish it wasn't such foul weather, I'd do the job in the driveway. No room in the garage.

                                                                                                                                                     
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Matteo on November 23, 2016, 08:30:29 PM
You can use my garage.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: danedg on November 23, 2016, 09:21:23 PM
I'd advise you open it up and check the various components before ordering new parts that you may not need. The friction disc in my clutch assembly had turned into a potato chip due to overheating.
The new disc was one of the worst manufactured pieces I'd ever seen and required a LOT of  TLC before it would operate correctly in the flywheel housing. I added the "cooling" vents to try and mitigate overheating, as per This Old Tractor.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/MotoG/i-c2W27rV/0/X2/DSC_0194-X2.jpg)

The first 10,000 miles were dicey, and the bike still does NOT like hot, around town, riding. But it has gotten better and I finally am able to feather the clutch, most of the time...
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 24, 2016, 03:04:47 PM
What exactly happened there, Dan? Was the center disc the problem? Was that all that required replacing?

In the photo I see an old disc and a new one.

Are you saying the new disc needed work to operate properly? How did you know that? Was it warped? If so, why not return it for a better one?

What's the back story? Had the clutch been recently rebuilt before this? Or did it go bad and that's what you found opening it up?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 24, 2016, 04:58:56 PM
What exactly happened there, Dan? Was the center disc the problem? Was that all that required replacing?

In the photo I see an old disc and a new one.

Are you saying the new disc needed work to operate properly? How did you know that? Was it warped? If so, why not return it for a better one?

What's the back story? Had the clutch been recently rebuilt before this? Or did it go bad and that's what you found opening it up?

The new intermediate disc Dan bought was one of a batch made incorrectly by/for Stein Dinse. The teeth on the outer perimeter weren't right and they didn't fit. I tried to send the one I bought back, but was told to just keep it and and a replacement was sent. The same one supplied now does fit correctly, but I prefer to buy the slightly more expensive "new and improved" one for a few dollars more.

I've never seen the need for the slots unless the bike is going to be dragging a sidecar or some similar heavy duty use.

With the careful choice of parts, correctly installed and adjusted properly, there's no reason a Guzzi clutch won't work the same cool or hot.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: danedg on November 24, 2016, 05:39:52 PM
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/MotoG/i-VgJf4q8/0/XL/DSCN1888-XL.jpg)

Long story short... I bought the above Eldorado sight unseen from an estate where it had been parked for 13 years by the deceased owner. Literally a barn find. I knew zero about Moto Guzzi's, but my previous experience with vintage bikes taught me the following mantra.
All it needs is everything.
With no history on the bike I didn't hesitate to just pull it all apart to check bearings, seals, gaskets, tolerance, tensioners, chrome cylinders, and everything else. 
Many thanks to This Old Tractor for guidance!
One of the recommended upgrades was to replace the 2mm tranny output hub with the 4mm. That required new clutch discs and don't forget to check that friction plate for warpage. It was really out of whack from over heating.
Whereas the old one looked like it had been machined carefully for it's intended purpose, the new one appeared to have been crudely stamped in a cut rate fashion.It did not fit into the flywheel and had to be hand dressed to fit tooth to tooth. All of them. Without the extra attention that plate would have bound up and been grabby when it finally engaged. The warped plate would have created a grabby situation. Not properly centering the clutch discs to accept the drive hub can damage the friction disc upon reassembly.
Not having done the work yourself on your T3, leaves you just scratching your head wondering why. I'd hesitate to start buying new (expensive) parts, before I'd determined that the ones you've got are OK and installed properly.   
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: danedg on November 24, 2016, 05:50:52 PM
The new intermediate disc Dan bought was one of a batch made incorrectly by/for Stein Dinse. The teeth on the outer perimeter weren't right and they didn't fit. I tried to send the one I bought back, but was told to just keep it and and a replacement was sent. The same one supplied now does fit correctly, but I prefer to buy the slightly more expensive "new and improved" one for a few dollars more.

I've never seen the need for the slots unless the bike is going to be dragging a sidecar or some similar heavy duty use.

With the careful choice of parts, correctly installed and adjusted properly, there's no reason a Guzzi clutch won't work the same cool or hot.

As usual Charlie nailed it. I didn't raise the poor quality question with the supplier until after it had been installed, and was told I should have said something sooner and it would have been replaced. I was an utter Guzzi noob and didn't know any better. The bike had 43K showing. The Loops are heavy and the original plate was badly warped so adding the optional "relief" holes made sense.

The point remains until YOU get in there and check things out there's no way to tell why it's not operating correctly.
Speculation is moot.
I rather doubt that it's anything serious.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 24, 2016, 06:02:24 PM
Nice bike danedg! Those are some HUGE cases! I've never seen such large luggage.

Thanks for filling in the data for me. Appreciate it. Was the intermediate disc one of those Charlie just mentioned from Stein Dinse?

I feel sufficiently bolstered, Charlie. I just need to find the good parts.  :wink:

Is this the one for 34.75 euro?

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-disc-MG-big-model-new-version-SD-TEC::1947.html

Or should I get these?

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-disc-MG-big-Model-new-version-AP::5218.html#prettyPhoto

Or would this be the way to go:

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-Kit-new-version-big-Model::790.html#prettyPhoto

I can't seem to find the intermediate disc separately on that site, to verify which is the best - but I guess the one that's slightly more expensive would be the one.

Since Matt has offered to let me do the job over there, I should probably have everything needed, just in case, to ensure it's all back together the same day.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 24, 2016, 06:30:42 PM
Nice bike danedg! Those are some HUGE cases! I've never seen such large luggage.

Thanks for filling in the data for me. Appreciate it. Was the intermediate disc one of those Charlie just mentioned from Stein Dinse?

I feel sufficiently bolstered, Charlie. I just need to find the good parts.  :wink:

Is this the one for 34.75 euro?

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-disc-MG-big-model-new-version-SD-TEC::1947.html

Or should I get these?

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-disc-MG-big-Model-new-version-AP::5218.html#prettyPhoto

Or would this be the way to go:

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/New-Version/Clutch-Kit-new-version-big-Model::790.html#prettyPhoto

I can't seem to find the intermediate disc separately on that site, to verify which is the best - but I guess the one that's slightly more expensive would be the one.

Since Matt has offered to let me do the job over there, I should probably have everything needed, just in case, to ensure it's all back together the same day.

Those are DB saddlebags.

The same parts you linked to are available here in the US from MG Cycle. I would recommend:
Intermediate plate:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4789
Friction plates:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165
Hub:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1163
Springs:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4857
Or you can buy the complete kit, but it seems to have the cheaper intermediate plate:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4766
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: smdl on November 24, 2016, 09:13:37 PM
Wirespokes, this is from the loopframe section of This Old Tractor, but it should give you a good idea of what to check  when you have access to the back of the engine.  See "Inside the bellhousing".

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine_out__check_these_things.html (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine_out__check_these_things.html)

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: fotoguzzi on November 24, 2016, 09:37:21 PM
 
I'll try to get some pix up of the bike. It's my loudest one yet... I think it's got Bubs.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 25, 2016, 11:55:19 AM
Hey, this is pretty easy posting pix. So - ok - this was my first ride on the 87 LeMans after owning it 24 hours. My aunt's place is in the hills out of Santa Rosa CA and I rode it 'around the block' - probably six or seven miles. The farthest point from the house was probably 1.5 miles and my aunt said she could hear me the whole way. And I was taking it easy!


(http://thumb.ibb.co/eTN93v/87_Le_Mans.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eTN93v)

imgbb (http://imgbb.com/)


I guess this means I now have to post some pix of the T3.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: fotoguzzi on November 25, 2016, 01:29:12 PM
Nice, what's that thing on the wind screen?
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Matteo on November 25, 2016, 07:19:53 PM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/ksKiVa/IMG_0449.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ksKiVa)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kGEvbF/IMG_0450.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kGEvbF)

Terry's new ride. Sweet!
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 25, 2016, 10:28:38 PM
Thanks for posting the photos, Matt!

That thing on the windscreen? It's part of my riding gear - originally created to block wind blast from the BMW RS windscreen that caused a terrible roaring. It saved my neck hitting an elk ten years ago, keeps me warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. So now I wear it all the time as a normal part of my riding gear.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 26, 2016, 02:47:32 PM
Awesome bike!
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: wirespokes on November 27, 2016, 12:31:48 AM
Yeah, it is a cool bike. Not my first choice aesthetically, but it's growing on me.

I'm starting to lean towards getting the clutch discs and maybe even the intermediate, from MG Cycle. Just git er done.

Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on November 27, 2016, 02:29:53 AM

I've gotten an offer to buy two new SD discs, almost new unmarked flywheel, intermediate plate and good 4mm hub for $250. Not sure if I'll need a flywheel, but with the way this thing has been acting up,

My maths says that's a $50 bet on flywheel, if yours is good I'll give you the $50 for it, no risk on your part.
I've changed many flywheels, but never had slight wear on my own, clutches worn out by people not design.

Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Matt Story on November 27, 2016, 06:07:23 AM
I am wondering if anyone else has tried this intermediate plate out that is offered by Moe at Cycle Garden.

http://images.cyclegarden.com/ebay/interplate.jpg (http://images.cyclegarden.com/ebay/interplate.jpg)

They are offered on Ebay and I would assume by mail or at the shop.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Eldorado-ambassador-V700-T-T3-G5-LMI-Clutch-Intermediate-plate-/171642492309?hash=item27f6b09595:g:Gy8AAOSwxYxUtwG3&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Eldorado-ambassador-V700-T-T3-G5-LMI-Clutch-Intermediate-plate-/171642492309?hash=item27f6b09595:g:Gy8AAOSwxYxUtwG3&vxp=mtr)

I bought one.  I can't yet give any report on its life or effect on other components.  I can say, it is a very nice fit in my near pristine flywheel.  The fact that its hardened makes great sense as far as wear on the friction surfaces.  My only doubt is that since it is hardened, will it have a damaging effect on the flywheel teeth.  Though due to its nice fit, it has very little play in the flywheel teeth.

Seems to be a very good product.

Any word on Moe's recovery?  Wishing him the best of course
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 27, 2016, 09:14:22 AM
I am wondering if anyone else has tried this intermediate plate out that is offered by Moe at Cycle Garden.

http://images.cyclegarden.com/ebay/interplate.jpg (http://images.cyclegarden.com/ebay/interplate.jpg)

They are offered on Ebay and I would assume by mail or at the shop.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Eldorado-ambassador-V700-T-T3-G5-LMI-Clutch-Intermediate-plate-/171642492309?hash=item27f6b09595:g:Gy8AAOSwxYxUtwG3&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Eldorado-ambassador-V700-T-T3-G5-LMI-Clutch-Intermediate-plate-/171642492309?hash=item27f6b09595:g:Gy8AAOSwxYxUtwG3&vxp=mtr)

I bought one.  I can't yet give any report on its life or effect on other components.  I can say, it is a very nice fit in my near pristine flywheel.  The fact that its hardened makes great sense as far as wear on the friction surfaces.  My only doubt is that since it is hardened, will it have a damaging effect on the flywheel teeth.  Though due to its nice fit, it has very little play in the flywheel teeth.

Seems to be a very good product.

Any word on Moe's recovery?  Wishing him the best of course

I used one in a customer's bike, like you said, it's a quality piece. Appears to be nearly identical to the "new and improved" intermediate plate that MG Cycle now sells.
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 27, 2016, 10:25:26 PM
Yeah, it is a cool bike. Not my first choice aesthetically, but it's growing on me.

I'm starting to lean towards getting the clutch discs and maybe even the intermediate, from MG Cycle. Just git er done.

I have a T I'll trade you.  :azn:
Title: Re: T3 Clutch recommendations?
Post by: swooshdave on November 30, 2016, 01:49:09 PM
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=87290.0